Why can't people anchor?

[Trident]

Ok, after my first few months in the Med its time for rant! A typical 48 hours;

Sitting happily at anchor off Formentera with plenty of chain down as 40+ knot easterlies forecast later in the day. Motorboat anchors so close i have to fend off with a boat hook but still won't move because he's a paid skipper and doesn't want to call his paying clients out from their swim. Thankfully leaves after an hour.
Watch second motorboat drag 150 metres with 6 or 7 people on board, past 2 boats, and they don't even get up from their drinks to look.
Watch 2 or 3 boats collide because they have no idea about swing circles
Relax as night approaches and all the day boats go home leaving me plenty of room to sit out the coming storm. Stop relaxing as at sundown two chart boats turn up, drop anchor right in front of me with little scope and no attempt to set it right - just the usual one big pile, stop engine and go for a swim - I ask them to move because they're too close, there's a big wind due and if the direction changes at all I have lots of scope out and would swing right through them. He refuses to move, laughs and says why don't I wait and see what happens before getting upset. Before I can say - because if we wait and see us colliding its too late you **&*&^ he's dived in the sea and off to join his friends.
So, deciding not to risk my boat in the by now forecast 47-55 knots we up anchor and head for the nearest all weather safe anchorage. Sail up in the dark and anchor around midnight in a sensible spot where we won't trouble anyone.
At dawn someone drops anchor about 6 feet off my port bow - I suggest he's a little close and its a huge half empty anchorage - his response is to let out more chain. I then politely point out his swing will now cut through the boats on moorings that of course have no scope so won't swing out the way if the wind changes. He has no idea what I mean and says adamantly that he will stay where he is.
I dinghy ashore for water and when I return he's gone - but the moored Sunseeker he hit has fenders out and thanks me for trying to talk sense in to him.
Wind picks up to 30 knots.
Watching boats drag left right and centre. One small yacht drags repeatedly and yet they still get off and dingy ashore. It drags.
A friend and I (he's in the boat next to the dragging yacht) get thoroughly soaked in the dinghy taking a line out to it and back to my friends well anchored cat so we stop it dragging out to sea. Meanwhile someone else anchors so close to my friends boat that when the wind lulls for a minute and he comes forward on his chain we can no longer get a dinghy between them. Refuses to move and goes below.
The owners of the dragging boat return, move it and then as soon as its anchored again go back ashore to sit out the storm. Not even on board long enough to take a transit. Amazingly this morning it was still there.
Meanwhile another boat drags in to the yacht behind. It can't motor forward to reset because its not got a working engine. Turns out to be a doss house for summer workers in Ibiza. Someone from another boat dives down and gets a line on to an old mooring and they winch forward off the yacht and then someone else takes their anchor forward in a rib to reset it - though as its a 15 ton 44 foot mono and has a rusty, tiny old fisherman's anchor they decide to leave the impromptu mooring line on too.
Wake up this morning to see another cat that has dragged in to the channel in and out of the harbour (used daily by commercial boats, ferries etc ) - do they get up and move - no - they just leave it there and dingy ashore; I honestly think they didn't even notice they'd moved in the night.
Finally, my friend who'd been there a few days give me a warning; whilst we're anchored with plenty of room and a sensible 5 times scope in 3 metres he warns that if the winds turn 180 degrees we too may need to move as the yacht 4 boat lengths behind us arrive the week before, laid out about 60m of chain (in a 3 m deep anchorage) and then the owners left and have not returned . Its hit several boats so far he said as no one expected such a huge swing in such a shallow anchorage.
This is perhaps the worst 48 hours we've seen so far in the Med but its pretty typical. I know these guys live in stern-to marinas where they're cheek to jowl all the time and the waters are crowded but surely that should foster better anchoring practices to keep safe? The really worrying part is that the peak season isn't even here yet. Oh well, perhaps someone's insurance will provide me with a nice shiny new paint job this summer....

 

[sailaboutvic]

What's the problem , it normal , you think you seen every thing , you not seen nothing yet , wait till you get into greece , it's an eye opener .

 

[jimbaerselman]

I blame it all on books about cruising written by a world girdlers around the late 1950's. "Overwieght CQR laid 2.5 times your depth, with a heavy chain" was typical advice. Boats were small then. "overweight" was suitable for a boat half as long again, about 45'. I've seen this advice recently repeated.

World girdlers don't anchor much on their trips. But their adventures are much read. In many languages.

Also, of the rather less than 50% of skippers who have undergone formal training, only a very small percentage will have actually tested their anchor tackle and technique in winds over 30 kts. Which, given the stresses induced by "sailing" at anchor, means that the anchor will have to be able to hold full astern - of a typical sail boat.

That test soon shows up any weaknesses in anchor type and scope. And no, don't dream about those old myths about catenary. Maybe valid if you're anchoring in 20 fathoms . . . but you know all this.

So to summarise, many skippers are never taught to anchor. They just read and hear myths. And those who are taught are very rarely told how to test holding before going asleep or ashore.

No wonder you've been enjoying so much entertainment!

 

[sailaboutvic]

I blame it all on books about cruising written by a world girdlers around the late 1950's. "Overwieght CQR laid 2.5 times your depth, with a heavy chain" was typical advice. Boats were small then. "overweight" was suitable for a boat half as long again, about 45'. I've seen this advice recently repeated.

World girdlers don't anchor much on their trips. But their adventures are much read. In many languages.

Also, of the rather less than 50% of skippers who have undergone formal training, only a very small percentage will have actually tested their anchor tackle and technique in winds over 30 kts. Which, given the stresses induced by "sailing" at anchor, means that the anchor will have to be able to hold full astern - of a typical sail boat.

That test soon shows up any weaknesses in anchor type and scope. And no, don't dream about those old myths about catenary. Maybe valid if you're anchoring in 20 fathoms . . . but you know all this.

So to summarise, many skippers are never taught to anchor. They just read and hear myths. And those who are taught are very rarely told how to test holding before going asleep or ashore.

No wonder you've been enjoying so much entertainment!

Never have truer words been said , well done Jim , I also put some of the Blane on GPS , chart Plotters , take them away and you will find a lot more novice sailors around .

 

[geem]

Ok, after my first few months in the Med its time for rant! A typical 48 hours;

Sitting happily at anchor off Formentera with plenty of chain down as 40+ knot easterlies forecast later in the day. Motorboat anchors so close i have to fend off with a boat hook but still won't move because he's a paid skipper and doesn't want to call his paying clients out from their swim. Thankfully leaves after an hour.
Watch second motorboat drag 150 metres with 6 or 7 people on board, past 2 boats, and they don't even get up from their drinks to look.
Watch 2 or 3 boats collide because they have no idea about swing circles
Relax as night approaches and all the day boats go home leaving me plenty of room to sit out the coming storm. Stop relaxing as at sundown two chart boats turn up, drop anchor right in front of me with little scope and no attempt to set it right - just the usual one big pile, stop engine and go for a swim - I ask them to move because they're too close, there's a big wind due and if the direction changes at all I have lots of scope out and would swing right through them. He refuses to move, laughs and says why don't I wait and see what happens before getting upset. Before I can say - because if we wait and see us colliding its too late you **&*&^ he's dived in the sea and off to join his friends.
So, deciding not to risk my boat in the by now forecast 47-55 knots we up anchor and head for the nearest all weather safe anchorage. Sail up in the dark and anchor around midnight in a sensible spot where we won't trouble anyone.
At dawn someone drops anchor about 6 feet off my port bow - I suggest he's a little close and its a huge half empty anchorage - his response is to let out more chain. I then politely point out his swing will now cut through the boats on moorings that of course have no scope so won't swing out the way if the wind changes. He has no idea what I mean and says adamantly that he will stay where he is.
I dinghy ashore for water and when I return he's gone - but the moored Sunseeker he hit has fenders out and thanks me for trying to talk sense in to him.
Wind picks up to 30 knots.
Watching boats drag left right and centre. One small yacht drags repeatedly and yet they still get off and dingy ashore. It drags.
A friend and I (he's in the boat next to the dragging yacht) get thoroughly soaked in the dinghy taking a line out to it and back to my friends well anchored cat so we stop it dragging out to sea. Meanwhile someone else anchors so close to my friends boat that when the wind lulls for a minute and he comes forward on his chain we can no longer get a dinghy between them. Refuses to move and goes below.
The owners of the dragging boat return, move it and then as soon as its anchored again go back ashore to sit out the storm. Not even on board long enough to take a transit. Amazingly this morning it was still there.
Meanwhile another boat drags in to the yacht behind. It can't motor forward to reset because its not got a working engine. Turns out to be a doss house for summer workers in Ibiza. Someone from another boat dives down and gets a line on to an old mooring and they winch forward off the yacht and then someone else takes their anchor forward in a rib to reset it - though as its a 15 ton 44 foot mono and has a rusty, tiny old fisherman's anchor they decide to leave the impromptu mooring line on too.
Wake up this morning to see another cat that has dragged in to the channel in and out of the harbour (used daily by commercial boats, ferries etc ) - do they get up and move - no - they just leave it there and dingy ashore; I honestly think they didn't even notice they'd moved in the night.
Finally, my friend who'd been there a few days give me a warning; whilst we're anchored with plenty of room and a sensible 5 times scope in 3 metres he warns that if the winds turn 180 degrees we too may need to move as the yacht 4 boat lengths behind us arrive the week before, laid out about 60m of chain (in a 3 m deep anchorage) and then the owners left and have not returned . Its hit several boats so far he said as no one expected such a huge swing in such a shallow anchorage.
This is perhaps the worst 48 hours we've seen so far in the Med but its pretty typical. I know these guys live in stern-to marinas where they're cheek to jowl all the time and the waters are crowded but surely that should foster better anchoring practices to keep safe? The really worrying part is that the peak season isn't even here yet. Oh well, perhaps someone's insurance will provide me with a nice shiny new paint job this summer....

Dont think you are alone in having all the fun! Caribbean is pretty similar especially around the French islands. We had two French yachts drag past us with inches to spare. We just let them head out to sea. they were onboard and 1.5 miles out before they realised they had dragged! it amazes me that so many people have no idea how much chain they should put out. may people seem to think that they let the anchor hit the bottom then put out a bit more. They look astonished when they drag. i have seen a 50 ft Ben repeatedly drag and reset just behind us with no more than the depth of water in chain plus say a metre. it would be comical if it wasnt so frightening.

 

[vyv_cox]

There are plenty that cannot fit their sails to their own boats, so why would you expect them to be able to anchor? My good friend is the technical man at this marina and he astounds experienced yachtsmen with his tales of the ineptitude of many. Installing sails on boats is a regular job for him, as are the simplest maintenance jobs, such as fixing a non-functioning windlass by tightening the clutch! When asked to fix a problem with in-mast reefing mainsail controls recently he determined that the sail would have to come down. The owner absolutely refused, stating that it was impossible and that the sail was up for life. When he insisted the owner reported him to the management for incompetence.

 

[ip485]

Undersized anchor and chain.

Inexperience as to how to set.

Cant be bothered about other boats anchored.

Had too much to drink to notice.

Not their yacht so dont care.

Actually I would slightly disagree with the above post because I think most of them havent read the books, articles etc., which is why they are attached to a dragging anchor. At least if they had read the books they would have some idea, if not perhaps the best idea.

 

[concentrik]

At least it's just a bit of annoyance, scratches or maybe dings - could be a lot worse:

http://bit.ly/1GTYjqP

Happened in your neck 'o the woods, too.

 

[Trident]

That's sobering and worse still I think I saw the yacht that morning. There was a Belgian boat in Cala Llonga that morning that dragged on to rocks and as we went to help with our rather under powered engine a large motor yacht got a line to them and saved the day. We ran for cover against pretty horrible 35 knot winds on the nose all day to get in to San Antoni bay to sit out the 45 know northerlies that were predicted. Its tragic that 3 died but without sounding too callous who chooses to anchor where they'll be on a lee shore when the wind turns with a 45 know storm coming in - or alternatively who doesn't check the weather before anchoring so they know what is coming...

On a lighter note, our new neighbour - suffice it to say far too close to the boat in front and refusing to move - is spending his day sat in the cockpit with binos glued to his eyes perving on every topless woman on the decks of other boats around. The moment men appear on deck the bins drop out of sight and then up again as soon as the coast is clear. Occasionally he pops below to get a cold beer or do something more personal before resuming his voyeurism...

 

[Thedreamoneday]

I blame it all on books about cruising written by a world girdlers around the late 1950's. "Overwieght CQR laid 2.5 times your depth, with a heavy chain" was typical advice. Boats were small then. "overweight" was suitable for a boat half as long again, about 45'. I've seen this advice recently repeated.

World girdlers don't anchor much on their trips. But their adventures are much read. In many languages.

Also, of the rather less than 50% of skippers who have undergone formal training, only a very small percentage will have actually tested their anchor tackle and technique in winds over 30 kts. Which, given the stresses induced by "sailing" at anchor, means that the anchor will have to be able to hold full astern - of a typical sail boat.

That test soon shows up any weaknesses in anchor type and scope. And no, don't dream about those old myths about catenary. Maybe valid if you're anchoring in 20 fathoms . . . but you know all this.

So to summarise, many skippers are never taught to anchor. They just read and hear myths. And those who are taught are very rarely told how to test holding before going asleep or ashore.

No wonder you've been enjoying so much entertainment!

Without wanting to open a can of anchoring worms can you direct a relative novice to a source of 'Sound anchoring' advice (books/ DVDs anything etc) I feel I understand the concept and etiquette of anchoring but as everything to do with sailing there's always other ways which are good to have in your tool bag.

Cheers

 

[TQA]

This is my second stint cruising the eastern Carib.

I think anchoring equipment and skills are better now than they were in the 90s. I have interesting memories of the charge of the charter boats into Bequia at about 5pm and 50 ft Benes trying to set the two 30 lb CQRs on chain rope rode, the Charter Cos supplied, in a V with the Christmas Winds swirling around Elizabeth harbor.

My favorite was the one who arrived late and took the large empty spot in front of the Gingerbread. You know the one with 6 inches of sand over a rock shelf. On the skippers shout of "NOW" the two anchors were deployed and the crew were in the tender and heading ashore for their dinner reservation before the Bene had stopped moving forward. It of course dragged and managed to avoid all yachts finally getting a grip about 1/2 mile downwind. I never did find out how long it took them to find it in the dark among all the other similar charter boats.

The one that provided more long term entertainment was the power boat who anchored off Nassau on a single anchor with about 300 ft of scope. They were obviously unaware of the strong reversing current every 6 hours and the necessity of the Bahamian moor, 2 anchors deployed at 180 degrees in line with the current. They left to go ashore and I am sure enjoyed exploring Nassau for the day. Meanwhile their boat was soon scything through the anchorage and banging into all sorts as it swung in a 600 ft circle. I was recovering from a stint in hospital and took no part in the efforts to deal with the wanderer.

 

[laika]

We had two French yachts drag past us with inches to spare. We just let them head out to sea. they were onboard and 1.5 miles out before they realised they had dragged

If they passed inches from you why didn't you alert them to what was happening?

 

[GHA]

Without wanting to open a can of anchoring worms can you direct a relative novice to a source of 'Sound anchoring' advice (books/ DVDs anything etc) I feel I understand the concept and etiquette of anchoring but as everything to do with sailing there's always other ways which are good to have in your tool bag.

Cheers

One option...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Creative-An...UTF8&qid=1435986098&sr=1-6&keywords=anchoring

 

[charles_reed]

If they passed inches from you why didn't you alert them to what was happening?

Probably because he hadn't been introduced and couldn't speak French?

To one who wants to know about anchoring, have a look here - http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/photos-of-anchors-setting-126073.html
where he'll learn a lot - and not just one biassed view.

 

[jordanbasset]

In addition to those already mentioned other reasons why some have difficulty in anchoring is that it is less common now than it was in the past with the growth of marinas.
Also in the med anyway, a lot of people come for just a week or two. They may come from areas where the holding was more benign than the often hard packed sand found in large areas of the med.
They may just have been used to short lunch time stops before and never left the boat, so were not too worried about dragging.
When we lived aboard it was important for us to be confident the anchor would hold as we often left it to go off for the day. I still meet people who would never leave their boat, or at least be out of sight of it. That is their choice but for a live aboard it would make life impossible.
Of course most people, whether liveaboards or not do anchor correctly, but I agree there are many who don't.

 

[[29051]]

We used to own a boat and spent most of our time at anchor. Now we have sold it and gone back to flotillas and bareboat. The boat we used this year had unmarked chain, and the flotilla skipper had no idea how much chain each boat carried. He thought it was 30m. He also briefed us that the electric windlass operated at about 1m per second so we could just count 30 seconds and it would be about right ! He was way out with that, and the chain length.

We spent some nights free sailing and another boat joined us. They anchored while I was snorkelling so I offered to take a look to see if it was dug in. They had less than 15m of chain out in 8m of water. Coupled with the poor holding in a lot of holiday areas it is no wonder they cause chaos. Better information from the charter operators would at least give people a chance.

 

[affinite]

I would guess that all of us has dragged at some time or another so I'm pretty easy going and understanding if I see it happen to someone else.
I'll assist in the dinghy or offer suggestions if I feel that the anchoring of my neighbour is not sound and may endanger someone (including them); however what really annoys me is the people who wont listen to polite, well intentioned advice/comments. Ineptitude can be overcome or corrected with advice and/or experience however ineptitude combined with arrogance is a dangerous combination. If I encounter that I move !

 

[Tony Cross]

I would guess that all of us has dragged at some time or another so I'm pretty easy going and understanding if I see it happen to someone else.
I'll assist in the dinghy or offer suggestions if I feel that the anchoring of my neighbour is not sound and may endanger someone (including them); however what really annoys me is the people who wont listen to polite, well intentioned advice/comments. Ineptitude can be overcome or corrected with advice and/or experience however ineptitude combined with arrogance is a dangerous combination. If I encounter that I move !

I have wondered whether the "reluctance to move" is because they don't really know how the anchor works, how much chain to put out, nor how to set the anchor - probably because nobody has shown them. So once they mange (through luck or good fortune) to get the boat anchored they really don't want to move, even if too close to another boat, because they're not sure they could get it anchored again first time and they don't want to look stupid having to keep trying?

 

[geem]

If they passed inches from you why didn't you alert them to what was happening?

They went past at about 4kts and had gone astern of us by the time we got in the cockpit! They didn't even have enough chain out to touch the bottom where we were anchored or their progress may have been slowed! That was the one with people onboard. The other one had nobody onboard and ended up anchored just behind us about 20 ft. That one went past very slowly so we deployed fenders but didn't actually hit

 

[Wansworth]

Having passed their Patron de Yate exam the Spanish yachtsman feel he is qualified to take charge of a yacht unfortunately the qualification just about covers how to extend a boat hook...... although there is now a practical bit Its all fiddled so the yachtsman can pass easily without any real knowledge of seamanship........ why do you think they got routed in the Channel.