What's the fascination with long keels?

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I don't have any trouble manouvering my Vancouver 27 in crowded marinas, my tactic is to ensure my boats well fendered and then bounce her lightly from boat to boat until we extricate ourselves and are in clear water. As I rarely visit the same marina twice and because an AWB's gelcoat is easily repaired, minor damage to other peoples boats is inconsequential.

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We had 13 fenders on our boat last year.... we occasionally used them all!

 

[Simondjuk]

This Video was taken in a F5 gusting 7 whilst crossing the Irish Sea last year. Terrific fun, felt comfortable and safe, with just one reef in main and about 5 turns taken in on genoa and flying an inner foresail cutter rigged.
http://s725.photobucket.com/user/johnscottorn/media/61gettingalittlewindier.mp4.html

There are a few more videos on my Photo Bucket of less boisterous sailing days in our boat, yet it's a very different pleasure laying in the sun sipping G&T's, .....not really the same satisfaction.

I sympathise with those who cannot push the boundaries due to being restricted by racey or caravan type modern boats... you don't know what your missing..

We'd be carrying about the same amount of sail in our fin and spade AWB. What am I missing?

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

We'd be carrying about the same amount of sail in our fin and spade AWB . What am I missing?

You are possibly a better seaman/sailor than some who are unable to go out in their fin and spade when a 5-6 is blowing and who don't feel safe or enjoy those conditions. Or you may have one of the very good seagoing fin and spade boats???

Mrs S is a fairly timid sailor yet felt safe reefed down in a F8 last year in our old tub. I dread to think how we both would cope in some boats in the conditions we experienced. We didn't feel brave, just secure.

I'm no quality sailor either, however, I know my boat, also my previous boat would get me out of scrapes I really don't

deserve to be saved from. Like coming out of Chichester in a recorded SW F7-8 during an ebb spring tide.

My Twister saved my bacon I reckon.... I wouldn't do it again! Did you go to that Twister meet years ago Parsifal?

 

[dunedin]

We'd be carrying about the same amount of sail in our fin and spade AWB. What am I missing?

Exactly my thought. And aren't most of the boats on things like ARC now regular production boats with fin and spade (though this starts to be the sort of deep blue water that long keel might be worth considering).

 

[Simondjuk]

I'd have thought that people who feel uncomfortable and unsafe in a 5 or more do so because of the wind itself, and are just as unlikely to go out in a long keeled heavyweight as they are in a light displacement racer.
Boat wise, I don't think 'unable' comes into it.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Exactly my thought. And aren't most of the boats on things like ARC now regular production boats with fin and spade

Yes it would seem so looking down the list..... some are pretty big long fin and skeg though.

http://www.worldcruising.com/arc/arc_2014_evententries.aspx

 

[JumbleDuck]

Exactly my thought. And aren't most of the boats on things like ARC now regular production boats with fin and spade ...

... who feel the need to be shepherded across the Atlantic, he said, contentiously.

 

[snowleopard]

... who feel the need to be shepherded across the Atlantic, he said, ignorantly.

There, fixed that for you.

 

[JumbleDuck]

There, fixed that for you.

Perhaps. Seems about as adventurous as going hill walking in a school crocodile to me, but each to his own.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I'd have thought that people who feel uncomfortable and unsafe in a 5 or more do so because of the wind itself, and are just as unlikely to go out in a long keeled heavyweight as they are in a light displacement racer.

Not in my experience.

Another example....I felt really safe in a Nic 38 going across Biscay in poor conditions, I would have not wanted to be in the J109 I used to sail!

Quote Jumbleduck "Perhaps. Seems about as adventurous as going hill walking in a school crocodile to me, but each to his own. "
I couldn't enter, they'd have all gone back again by the time I arrived!

 

[Simondjuk]

I think I'm missing something here. In your experience, what stops the AWB people going out in conditions where the MAB people go?

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I think I'm missing something here. In your experience, what stops the AWB people going out in conditions where the MAB people go?

Masochism ..... A willingness or tendency to subject oneself to unpleasant or trying experiences.

 

[Simondjuk]

That's just it though, there's nothing unpleasant or trying about most AWBs in a bit of a blow. What have you experienced to make you believe there is?

Ah, sorry, you mean the MAB owners?

 

[obmij]

I and a lot of my fellow Irish sea sailors have a bilge keeler. If we didn't go out if it was blowing more than a 5 we'd never go out at all (obviously going by the rule that the best sailing weather is when you're at work and unable to go sailing!)

Where do manky old bilge keelers fit into this massive thread?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I think I'm missing something here. In your experience, what stops the AWB people going out in conditions where the MAB people go?

Modern boats are by-and-large designed for gracious living in marinas with trips between in good weather. That's not to say that they'd sink in a blow, just that they are not primarily designed to be used that way. Older boats were designed for a world in which harbour facilities for yachts were minimal, so the assumption was that you'd spend most of your time sailing. Neither sort of boat is better than the other, neither sort of sailing is better than the other and their is no rigid demarcation in either.

 

[Simondjuk]

I'm not saying one is better than the other, just curious about comments such as Scotty Tradewind's which refer to modern boats being unable to go out in conditions that traditional boats can.

For a given size, most modern boats I've sailed are faster and closer winded than most traditional boats I've sailed. Given that making progress toward one's destination is the aim, how then is a modern boat less designed to be sailed than a traditional boat?

 

[Robin]

I'm not saying one is better than the other, just curious about comments such as Scotty Tradewind's which refer to modern boats being unable to go out in conditions that traditional boats can.

For a given size, most modern boats I've sailed are faster and closer winded than most traditional boats I've sailed. Given that making progress toward one's destination is the aim, how then is a modern boat less designed to be sailed than a traditional boat?

The need to continually convince themselves they bought the rightboat?

THE thing I would really miss most of all is the ability of a modern design boat, especially a cruiser/racer type, to maintain good passage speeds in light winds without having the motor running. The nicest sunny weather seems to always be accompanied with light winds , so it is a shame to spoil such nice sunny days by having to motor.

Oh and we crossed the Channel in full gales several times in our last UK based fin keeler which performed well under sail in all weathers that we were prepared to go out in. ' If it can handleF/6 with just s small reef in the main or roll or two in the genoa ', then it probably means it wallows nicely in <F4

 

[Simondjuk]

Agreed on the light winds. Here we are heading off to Les Sables-d'Olonne and making good progress in next to no breeze (look at the ensign)...

We came back past Portland with a 7 behind us and a good cresting swell running, the boat regularly surfing into double figure speeds and the autopilot making light work of steering. Hardly bad manners for any boat.

 

[Babylon]

No need for that expense or complication [bow-thrusters] if you apply some basic seamanship.

I'm afraid 'basic seamanship' is no longer a requirement.

Its like good handwriting or lane-discipline on motorways - these things only please those who delight in them.

 

[jordanbasset]

I remember when we took our Bavaria 38 from Plymouth to Greece, invariably we met people at various anchorages, harbours and marinas. Invariably if a force 6 or more was predicted most chose not to continue the journey but wait it out as the forecast usually meant it could be gusting 7-8. The thing is this was regardless of the type of boat, fin or long keel, most people just prefer to wait it out for a better day. The only exception were delivery crews, who were almost always in fin keel AWB's. Don't get me wrong it was safe for them to go out but for the rest of us we just preferred to wait.
Of course on our journey very occasionally we got caught out in 7-8's, the boat managed okay, am sure it would have been more comfortable in a long keeler but at no time did I not feel safe. We were more than compensated for the comfort it gave us 99.9% of our time aboard.