Halberg Rassey 31

[Fr J Hackett]

The V27 will do exactly what you want, cruise further afield and in retirement you will have the time to do it. I took mine to most of the Atlantic coast of France down to La Rochelle and once to Vigo. ( just because I wanted to, I had to return two days after I had arrived ) all in my 3 week annual holidays. The 27 is ideally suited to single handing being a comfortable if sedate passage maker.

 

[Refueler]

Vancouver .. Nicholson .... boats of that range are excellent boats but of course 'cramped' compared to later 'floating caravans' ..... but which would you prefer to be in when sh** hits the fan ?

My 1973 Sunrider 25 ... I would trust that boat in far worse weather conditions than many of todays larger boats ...

As to HR .....

There's Halberg Rassy and there's other boats .... and I say that having surveyed quite a few ... mostly the older.

 

[Tranona]

The V27 will do exactly what you want, cruise further afield and in retirement you will have the time to do it. I took mine to most of the Atlantic coast of France down to La Rochelle and once to Vigo. ( just because I wanted to, I had to return two days after I had arrived ) all in my 3 week annual holidays. The 27 is ideally suited to single handing being a comfortable if sedate passage maker.

Suspect OP knows all that - but he has clearly stated his reasons for considering a change.

 

[dunedin]

… The 27 is ideally suited to single handing being a comfortable if sedate passage maker.

The HR 31 will be equally good for single handing. The key as ever is a bullet proof autopilot, good sail controls ideally led aft - and preferably easy and predictable manoeuvring under engine. And the HR is probably heavier and steadier in a sea than a 27 footer.

It is a fallacy, IMHO, that a smaller boat necessarily makes easy for single handing - certainly up to about 12m the extra stability and better systems often make a slightly bigger boat easier to handle underway.
And the HR 31 is still compact - similar size to Concerto’s Fulmar which covered a few miles.

 

[flaming]

The idea that an HR31 is "flighty" or "skittish" is a novel one to me.

 

[dansaskip]

The things that would put me off the HR31 would be
1 -the Fractional rig as I always prefer masthead rig for cruising
2 - Sail drive - somewhere suspicious of having a great big hole in the hole sealed with a rubber gasket
3 - sloop rather than the versatility of a cutter rig for instance ability to sail with staysail rather than furled Genoa in strong winds
4 - some people say more modern in terms of hull and keel design but despite their detractor there are still advantages in a long keel design for single handing and seakindlyness

Ok I am biased as I own and sail a Vancouver and have covered many miles including ocean crossings, space and storage is not an issue particularly if you are single handed

 

[flaming]

The things that would put me off the HR31 would be
1 -the Fractional rig as I always prefer masthead rig for cruising
2 - Sail drive - somewhere suspicious of having a great big hole in the hole sealed with a rubber gasket
3 - sloop rather than the versatility of a cutter rig for instance ability to sail with staysail rather than furled Genoa in strong winds
4 - some people say more modern in terms of hull and keel design but despite their detractor there are still advantages in a long keel design for single handing and seakindlyness

Ok I am biased as I own and sail a Vancouver and have covered many miles including ocean crossings, space and storage is not an issue particularly if you are single handed

1 and 3 go together.

By going for a fractional rig you necessarily get a smaller and easier to handle jib. What I singularly fail to see is the attraction of for shorthanded coastal / channel sailing is a big overlapping jib that requires lot of grinding. That has never made any sense to me.

 

[Refueler]

1 and 3 go together.

By going for a fractional rig you necessarily get a smaller and easier to handle jib. What I singularly fail to see is the attraction of for shorthanded coastal / channel sailing is a big overlapping jib that requires lot of grinding. That has never made any sense to me.

Hear Hear .... I say this many times - get rid of those huge gennys ..... they usually are not actually giving that increase as thought ... for cruising - have a more manageable foresail ...

My 38ft racer .... the self-tacker is maybe maximum 0.5kts less when cruising - but Oh Boy what a better setup than faffing about with overlapping gennys ...

 

[johnalison]

1 and 3 go together.

By going for a fractional rig you necessarily get a smaller and easier to handle jib. What I singularly fail to see is the attraction of for shorthanded coastal / channel sailing is a big overlapping jib that requires lot of grinding. That has never made any sense to me.

The OP hasn't said what he means by further afield. Coming from the Solent, I assume that he may want to go to, say, Southern Brittany, Ireland or the Baltic, for which the HR and other boats mentioned would be ideal. Modern mainsail gear means that a large main is no handicap, and even reefing is only a minute's work in the cockpit. By all means have a ketch/long keel if you wish, but 20% added to the time taken will be significant for many, and much modern cruising consists of fast hops from one harbour to the next. If the 31 is anything like my 34, the motion should be comfortable for a boat if its size, and with little tendency to slam. It is not the sort of boat where you can leave the helm and go and make a cup of tea and come back to find it doing the same course, but the helm should be light and steady and take to an autopilot readily.

Saildrives have advantages to offset the servicing needs, such as much smoother running and a deeper bite in the water, that won't lose grip in rough seas, and have been around for long enough to any fears about sinking to have been well answered. Less prop walk in many installations can also be a benefit.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

1 and 3 go together.

By going for a fractional rig you necessarily get a smaller and easier to handle jib. What I singularly fail to see is the attraction of for shorthanded coastal / channel sailing is a big overlapping jib that requires lot of grinding. That has never made any sense to me.

A Vancouver doesn't have a big overlapping jib it has a high cut yankee.

 

[Wansworth]

Being a Luddite in you advancing years the boat you know is a good plan

 

[flaming]

A Vancouver doesn't have a big overlapping jib it has a high cut yankee.

Still a lot more winding than a non overlapping jib, especially if you are tacking it around an inner forestay.

But to be honest, for either boat... They're small boats with small sails. It's not going to be a massive issue.

 

[Stork_III]

Inspired by good friends who have a 31 we sold our Jeanneau a year ago and bought a 310 - absolutely fabulous in our opinion.
Friends have since bought a 342 so the 31 is up for sale..
1995 Hallberg-Rassy 31 For Sale - Clarke & Carter

I had the sister boat to that one. Stork III, ex Kiel Yacht Club boats, specified without the teak deck by British Army fitted out as 8 berth (saloon seat back swing up for bunks), sails brilliantly, replaced eventually for a HR34 which never sailed quite so well, though sturdier in a blow.

 

[Babylon]

Thanks all - lots of valid points, all very helpful and encouraging.

@John_Silver Thank you especially for a very clear and informative post, which gives a real sense of the suitability of the 31/310 for my likely cruising grounds for the next few years, primarily the Channel and French coast, extending to the Irish and North Sea, etc.

I have no direct experience of saildrives but they're a well-established solution with a good safety record. What would worry me more is an old engine with lots of unknown hours and/or a patchy service past, as replacing that would easily add another £12k to the purchase cost.

I've some experience of in-mast on large charter boats in the Med, and agree that would make life very convenient at only marginal loss of sail efficiency, but I'd be equally happy with a stack-pack for short-handed safety

I'm not pro- or anti-teak with any great messianic fervour, and if the right boat came up with reasonable remaining thickness of teak then I'd happily live with it for the duration of my ownership... and expect the eventual next owner to knock me on the sale price! (These HRs were apparently laid with something like 12mm solid teak, but the black rubber 'caulking' was only grooved in to about half that depth. So there should be plenty of meat left in a young enough example, but there'd be a considerable cost in planing the whole deck down and grooving in new 'caulking'.)

Finally, I'm not averse to sticking with the heavier long-keeled or long fin cutter-rig type (Vancouver or Victoria) but I don't want to go too big (32 fine, 34 pushing it) nor buy too old a boat (20-25yrs max ideally), hence this exploration of the HR31 option.

 

[johnalison]

I had the sister boat to that one. Stork III, ex Kiel Yacht Club boats, specified without the teak deck by British Army fitted out as 8 berth (saloon seat back swing up for bunks), sails brilliantly, replaced eventually for a HR34 which never sailed quite so well, though sturdier in a blow.

I’m not sure why your 34 was less satisfactory under sail. Maybe there was something about the set-up. Mine is well balanced and vice-free and always brings out a smile on those who are allowed to get to the helm. It is faster than the 31, as one would expect, and has a good reputation among HR owners.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I'm not pro- or anti-teak with any great messianic fervour, and if the right boat came up with reasonable remaining thickness of teak then I'd happily live with it for the duration of my ownership... and expect the eventual next owner to knock me on the sale price! (These HRs were apparently laid with something like 12mm solid teak, but the black rubber 'caulking' was only grooved in to about half that depth. So there should be plenty of meat left in a young enough example, but there'd be a considerable cost in planing the whole deck down and grooving in new 'caulking'.)

Apart from the condition and thickness of the teak, and the danger to the deck core from screwed down teak, you've struck on the other massive disadvantage. The caulking. In Mediterranean sun this degrades and starts creating fine black dust which gets everywhere. It transfers to the fiberglass, turns the soles of your feet black and leaves ugly marks everywhere which you are constantly cleaning up. Had this on my last boat from 1999, a good friend had it on his 2015 Bavaria 37 in Greece, and another friend with a Sunbeam from 2001 had it. All of them ended up replacing the caulking which was a horrible job.

 

[Supertramp]

When you get past 25 years most boats will need at least replacement of fittings, inside and out. A 20-25 year old boat with nothing replaced may be a lot more work and cost than one at 30-35 years but with an evidenced program of replacement of window seals, clutches, blocks, plastic fittings etc. A similar argument applies to engines. Condition and history matter.

A boat is not a good place to follow a run to failure approach to maintenance which may be the case with an apparently maintenance free modern design - but I'm sure you know all that!

 

[Babylon]

@Baggywrinkle You make an excellent point, but I don't see myself heading to the Med or tropics in my 'home' boat, local waters and some of northern Europe will do me. I do sometimes sail in hot places, but only on charter yachts with friends etc.

@Supertramp - I'm very cognisant of exactly this factor. Which is why in looking at any boat now I'll be closely attentive not just to big-ticket items (engines, decks, hull/topsides) but also to medium-ticket items (spars, standing rigging, sails, other electric/mechanical kit above and below decks, upholstery, etc). These are all of course useful cannon-balls and grape-shot with which to arm myself for the haggle... but it's not just the initial purchase and immediately-looming costs to consider, it is also the wish to avoid stuff which will involve me in too much hassle ashore.

I did have a hugely enjoyable first decade renewing and upgrading my 1982 Vanc (new engine etc, new water tanks and plumbing, coppercoat and topsides respray, sails, rigging, interior strip and revarnish, upholst, electric windlass, etc, etc), but this not only easily doubled the initial purchase price in extra capital costs over that period, it's also a journey I'd rather not repeat going forward.

Frankly if I could find a fifteen year old HR31 I'd pay the premium!

 

[Baggywrinkle]

@Baggywrinkle You make an excellent point, but I don't see myself heading to the Med or tropics in my 'home' boat, local waters and some of northern Europe will do me. I do sometimes sail in hot places, but only on charter yachts with friends etc.

The Sunbeam was in the Baltic it's entire life and spent every winter indoors until my friend shipped it to the Med. The problem with the caulking was there when he bought it. Med sun just accelerates the process, so it is pretty much expected on any boat around 20 years old or over with the original deck.

 

[Tranona]

The things that would put me off the HR31 would be
1 -the Fractional rig as I always prefer masthead rig for cruising
2 - Sail drive - somewhere suspicious of having a great big hole in the hole sealed with a rubber gasket
3 - sloop rather than the versatility of a cutter rig for instance ability to sail with staysail rather than furled Genoa in strong winds
4 - some people say more modern in terms of hull and keel design but despite their detractor there are still advantages in a long keel design for single handing and seakindlyness

Ok I am biased as I own and sail a Vancouver and have covered many miles including ocean crossings, space and storage is not an issue particularly if you are single handed

I can see why these factors might put you off - but you are in a very tiny minority as those features dominate boats that people actually buy. Maybe you should get some experience of at least sailing - if not owning boats like the HR 31. Then maybe you will be able to comment on them rationally.