What qualifications do I need? Help I'm confused...

[SingingBlues]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

Just my tuppence worth..

If you have your competent crew certificate, I'd skip Day skipper and go to Coastal Skipper; there's not much extra in the course. I'd sailed dinghies for years and decided to move up to yachts (something about staying a wee bit drier and being able to cook meals on the go! (actually, prob more to do with age, but I digress)). Anyway, I went straight for Coastal Skipper and had no problems getting through the courses (theory and practical) and gaining my ICC.

I haven't yet sat the Yachtmaster Exam (the one where the examiner joins you on your boat for a few days) as I want experience under my belt before attempting that - but having the ICC allowed me to charter yachts before buying my own.

As I say, just my tuppence worth - we all know what 2p is worth these days! Hope I haven't confused any issue still further.

Another useful website might be www.crewseekers.net

 

[st599]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

The Examiner is on board for about 8 hours. Most of the ones you see advertised have 5 days instruction before the examiner tuns up which means a) you know the boat, b) you have spent 5 days working with the crew.

 

[Sailfree]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

Ignoring what you finally end up doing as at present I think you love sailing but I am not sure you will combine delivery work with a family life. I would recommend the following.

Racing a small dinghy will teach you sail trim and sailing far better than on an unresponsive big boat. A good sterp on the learning curve not to be missed IMHO.

I would miss the competent crew stage.

Day skipper practical gives you a lot of big boat handling skills so again I would not miss it.

The day skipper practical also automatically entitles you to the International Certificate of Competence (ICC) that is the only and most basic piece of paper that is of value. While the ICC is optional in the UK it is compulsary in most EU countries. If you are stopped in another country they may not understand that can sail without an ICC nor the exact legal position. On a British registered boat you dont need it but most charter companies would require you to have one. DS and ICC may be some insurance co requirement if you wish to own a boat.


The Yacht Master theory and practical are the next big step with coastal skipper being awarded to those that try YM and are not quite up to the standard or those not having the 2500 qualifying miles (CS is only 1250Mls). I did the YM and effectively it forced me to learn the theory rather than be lazy but in reality its only another boy scouts badge to put on your sleeve but it did enable us get insurance cover to sail to Spain. It will repeat some of the DS theory unfortunately but if you feel competent buy a book read up on the bits you don't know and take the exam. Remember collision regs pass mark is 80%.

If you are going to skipper a boat and effectively be responsible for others lives I recommend doing YM theory and practical and in addition the First Aid and Sea survival. 99.9% of sailors never need any of these just a degree of competence and experience but I would hate to be the one that was responsible in the event of a problem due to lack of learning especially if someone was injured.

I did the YM Ocean as I thought I might learn something but apart from a greater understanding of weather systems it was not much use. I never expect to use a sextant again and in fact would not dream of trying without a refresher course and as I don't intend to sail any oceans I did it out of interrest rather than thinking it would be of use.

The biggest problem I find is to keep ocassionally practising the basic navigation as with a chartplotter and GPS its all so effortless.


Hope this helps whatever you finally end up doing.

Good luck

 

[peterb]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

Just a note to say that the names of the courses are likely to change this year. What used to be the Coastal Skipper / Yachtmaster Shorebased course is expected to lose the Yachtmaster bit and become just the Coastal Skipper Shorebased course, and the Coastal Skipper Certificate of Competence is expected to become the Yachtmaster Coastal. YM Offshore and YM Ocean Cs of C will stay as they are. The idea is that the only way to any Yachtmaster ticket is via an independent examination. RYA courses, shorebased or practical, will not have 'Yachtmaster' in their titles, and we hope to lose the present state where someone can take an evening shorebased course and claim to be a Yachtmaster.

 

[alant]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

I'd skip Day skipper and go to Coastal Skipper;
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rubbish!

The 'basics' are the most important things to learn.
Why do people these days want to skip experience?
Is it simply impatience, arrogance or ignorance?

The only way you can get thru a Coastal Skipper course, is by having experience ( sometimes measured as 1250 tidal miles) first.

Only then, should you consider jumping day Skipper.

 

[snowleopard]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

What's the point in paying out to take the Day Skipper exam when your objective is Yachtmaster? It can only serve to check that you are making progress and your instructor can tell you that. The only thing a DS cert is good for is chartering.

 

[Sailfree]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

The point is that day skipper is the one where there is lots of pontoon bashing etc while the YM is more about passage making as skipper.

I was advised to do DS then go straight to YM and I still consider that advice good for others.

The DS also gives you the ICC which most charter companies request before chartering their boats. By chartering boats and sharing costs with friends you can build up the mileage to do CS(1250mls) or YM (2500mls) plus the qualifying passages over 60mls.

 

[flaming]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

[ QUOTE ]
What's the point in paying out to take the Day Skipper exam when your objective is Yachtmaster? It can only serve to check that you are making progress and your instructor can tell you that. The only thing a DS cert is good for is chartering.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no such thing as a Day Skipper "exam". It's an instructor assessed qualification awarded at the end of a week of teaching.

If it's instruction at basic skippering - pontoon bashing etc - that you need it's a very good course.

 

[out_to_sea]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

hmmm... difficult choice, I don't want to spend money on a course I can miss, but at the same time its a good motivator to keep learning. I'm only 34 er I think not sure might be 35 so its not like I've got one foot in the grave /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif well I hope not. I read an article in a 2007 copy of practical boat owner (i think) about sailing enthusiasts who can't wait to get every qualification going, was very humorous and the authors response to anyone asking him his qualifications was "I'm practically an Admiral"

I'm not to worried about the family life, I've taken up sailing to get away from them, lol, well thats not exactly true its a compromise, the boss doesn't want me to work internationally so buggering off sailing for a week or so or day trips out is a compromise to satisfy my desires to travel / work around the world. I hope she will take up sailing in time and be just as enthusiastic... my 3 year old picks up my sailing book anounces she's learning to sail and going away with her daddy on a trip... I can't wait...

Whitby is easy to get to, around about the same timescale, so perhaps a little poster and a trip to some coastal clubs is required.

I've had a few offers to crew for people already, and am going to Corfu in May to join a gent from here who has graciously offered a berth for me.

I know this is such a newbie question, I should keep a logbook of my sea time right? ok so where and what type of log book do I need? Any one aware of an existing link to a thread on here about this, gulp I hope this has been asked before

More thanks
Andy

 

[Babylon]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

Andy

Lots of opinions a lot more experienced than mine, however it seems to me you've caught this bug.

You need to take into consideration your wife's own needs and 'dreams' - its an ongoing negotiation, maybe she'll take to sailing herself in due course? Everybody is different.

You need to get out sailing as much as you can - join a salt-water sailing club accessible to you (1.5 hours drive isn't that far if you're going for the weekend) and crew for others.

Sign up for a five day Comp Crew course this season - no, its not stricly necessary in terms of your far-off end-goals, but you'll be considerably more useful and less stressful to any ordinary club skipper willing to take you on a crew in the shorter term!

If you've still got time on your hands, buy a £200 sailing dinghy on eBay (something like an old Gul), slip it on local rivers, trail it to the Broads, etc etc - learn small boat seamanship, develop a feel for the wind, and have a lot of fun.

Do the Day Skipper theory course this autumn - it comprehensively covers the basics and will set you up to the do the practical next Spring.

Later you might start looking at boats - a trailer sailer perhaps to get your started - the biggest leap you'll make is going from crew to skippering your own little ship!

Read as much as you can - there's a lot of material out there, some better than others - you get the (excellent) RYA course booklets as part of your courses - Tom Cunliffe's 'Day Skipper' book is more appropriate to your level of learning than his 'Yachmaster' book which you can buy next year when you've got a little more sailing experience and technical understanding. Browse the catalogues and websites (amazon 2nd hand books keeps the cost down) - you'll waste a few quid on a few 'wrong' books, but soon your library will include books on heavy weather sailing, sea survival, sailing with a family, how to laugh at yourself, etc!

If you end up working as a commercial delivery skipper, then great - but in the meantime just enjoy yourself!

 

[alanabnala]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

The very fact that so many people have read this post speaks volumes!

I, like you, am really just getting in to this malarkey, I’ve always loved water and especially the sea, although I have no intentions of making a career move to one involving water. I do have a plan that I will one day sail at least part way round the world, although that will not be until I retire in twenty ish years time.

Whilst I am not very experienced in sailing, yet, I have studied and gained my pilots licence and competition licence for motor racing, so feel somewhat qualified to comment on the learning process. I agree with a lot of what has been posted here, but, I have a couple of my own observations.

1. It could be argued that the most skilful drivers in the world are F1 drivers. I am not aware of a single one who did not start in a cart. Whether it is your ambition to become a F1 driver, or simply enjoy the fun of carting, or anything in between, the starting point is carting. So, from my point of view, for sailing, start in dinghy’s and learn the basic skills. To those who have posted saying it’s a waste of time I disagree on two counts, All experience is good experience and if you enjoy it, go do it!

2. GPS & modern aids in general. Whilst I enjoy the convenience and accuracy of GPS, I wouldn’t dream of setting off in an aircraft on a x-country flight without having first completed a plan. I treat a GPS as an instrument that confirms my primary navigation, not IS my primary navigation. Anyone who does any different is a bloody fool IMHO. So, by the time I set off across an expanse of water I will want to know all about tides, trade winds etc and more importantly how to navigate without the use of any instruments and naturally with traditional instruments too. Technology can, does & will fail, you need to be able to cope when it does.

One day you may have to rely on the basic skills you have learnt to save your life and maybe others around you! When I was about 12 or 13 I read a book by Dougal Robertson, Survive The Savage Sea, I’m sure many on here will have read it, it made an impression on me that has stayed with me. You can read about it at www.survivethesavagesea.com

Above all, ENJOY! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[alant]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

I don't want to spend money on a course I can miss,

========================================

I instruct on these courses & one of the biggest problems I come across, are people who want to run before they can walk.

eg People come on Day Skipper practicals without even knowing what a chart is or having been on a 'big' boat (or any boat) before. The same people who, without any knowledge, think the terms 'competant crew' or 'Day Skipper', are beneath them.

You have admitted, that your current sailing experience is very limited & even that is on dinghies. In previous generations, small dinghies up to slightly bigger boats, then onto much bigger boats, was the route toward being a skipper & 'in-charge' of your own vessel. It was an apprenticeship of sorts, informal perhaps, but still dependant upon 'experience'. Learning by mistakes & watching/being told by others more experienced, how to do things. This route took time & you still have plenty left.

RYA courses (ignore the sceptics regarding the RYA), cannot duplicate this age old system, but they do pass on good/safe methods which work effectively (gleaned from others with vast experience), hopefully enabling you to learn quicker. Experience is still a necessary part of learning & nothing replaces it. You say you are looking for a career, so don't pennypinch on training.

On another point, I hope you are not going down this road, with a view to earning a good living. Financially, the marine industry hardly pays big bucks, so check it out very carefully first (unless you have a wife who can subsidise your lifestyle /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif ).

 

[alanabnala]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

[ QUOTE ]
Experience is still a necessary part of learning & nothing replaces it.

[/ QUOTE ] Well said and absolutely true!

 

[DeeGee]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

I just cant be arsed to give chapter and verse of why and wherefore, but my money says do a Day Skipper course. Many people I know haven't <u>any</u> 'piece of paper' and DS practical covers everything you need for coastal and cross-channel skippering. From there on, you will be able later to make your own assessment of what you need... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[peterb]

Re: What qualifications do I need? Help I\'m confused...

[ QUOTE ]
I know this is such a newbie question, I should keep a logbook of my sea time right? ok so where and what type of log book do I need? Any one aware of an existing link to a thread on here about this, gulp I hope this has been asked before.

[/ QUOTE ]

The best logbook for your purpose is the RYA "Sail Cruising & Yachtmaster" logbook. It's got space for your experience, but also includes the full syllabus for all the RYA certificates. It should be available at any sailing school or good chandler. The current one is numbered G15/04. The 04 relates to the year that it was published, and it's usually updated every 5 years or thereabouts, so a new edition is just about due.

 

[Sailfree]

Re: For those considering crossing oceans

Realising that many reading this may be just starting sailing and dreaming of going off and sailing round the world one day - a word of caution.

We had this in mind when we started sailing. After about 6yrs sailing and racing a Wayfarer (good boat to learn to sail on as it has all the bits of string bigger boats have!) we bought a 36' AWB. Got the pieces of paper the RYA send if you spend enough and finally tok 3 months off work in 2004 to sail South and see if we enjoyed it.

We did enjoy it but bad weather, gales etc made us realise we enjoyed sailing to places but would not like to see only the ocean every day for say 25 days.

We ended up sailing to Spain and we hope to repeat it one year but we decided that sailing round the world was no longer for us.

For you it may be but definately give it a try for a few months before equipping a boat for a round the world sail!

 

[alanabnala]

Re: For those considering crossing oceans

Yup! I can’t argue with that, it’s a fair point.

I think by the time I was ready for the big push off, I’d have had some longish passages to my credit and would either have given it up as a bad job long ago, or be even more hell bent on doing it…

I can't see myself not liking it, but who knows...? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[out_to_sea]

Re: For those considering crossing oceans

Its not so much I want to make a fortune, i know that is not going to happen, its about not spending more then I earn. I don't have many bills at home any more, but it costs to go places and do things. I've got more pipe dreams then most people have had hot suppers, who knows we might settle somewhere and do boat charters, or fishing or diving or I dunno, I don't really have that bigger plan just want the freedom to do these things without worrying if I have the right piece of paper... I wouldn't say I'm looking for a career in it, but as a contractor I can have spells of up to 6 months off work so it would be nice to fill these with sailing and earning a little too.

Most importantly its about having fun and making new friends /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Andy

 

[Kilter]

Re: For those considering crossing oceans

[ QUOTE ]
Most importantly its about having fun and making new friends

[/ QUOTE ]

You do that for sure! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[out_to_sea]

Re: For those considering crossing oceans

Is there an alternative to RYA qualifications?

What about radio and first aid courses?

Cheers

Andy /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif