fredrussell
Well-Known Member
…I find it confusing. Someone on another thread uses the phrase. Does it mean steer hard to starboard, or does it mean push tiller hard over to starboard (and thus steer boat to port?
What does “tiller hard over to starboard” mean to you?
- Thread starter fredrussell
- Start date
ctva
Well-Known Member
Your second option, just push it to starboard, the captain will have given the order.
johnalison
Well-Known Member
I would take it as meaning what it says; that the tiller itself should be pushed to starboard. It is not a phrase I would use. I might say helm up, or down, which is traditional, but I suppose that these days even that might be misunderstood. My preferred instruction is "leave that buoy/boat to starboard", which works well enough for those of us who can tell left from right.
Rappey
Well-Known Member
Turn to starboard/port or point and say turn that way !
Often out with inexperienced people so left/right or other basic instructions means no confusion.
Often out with inexperienced people so left/right or other basic instructions means no confusion.
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B27
Well-Known Member
It means you're on a boat with an idiot.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Never heard the phrase.
Hard to port/starboard.
Hard to port/starboard.
veshengro
Well-Known Member
It could be said to an inexperienced person steering the boat when going astern into or alongside a berth perhaps ? A moment of confusion, and the Skipper says, " Put the Tiller hard over to Starboard"
Alex_Blackwood
Well-Known Member
The "Skipper" should always make it clear at the outset which orders they will give. Tiller orders or Rudder orders. Normally it would be Rudder. Or if changing they should state clearly "Rudder" or "Tiller" and direction. Seamen understand that!
KevinV
Well-Known Member
The word "tiller" is really easily misheard in a bit of wind, especially at the beginning of a sentence that you might not be expecting - in an emergency I'd shout "that way!" and point
Refueler
Well-Known Member
This brings us to Naval Commands ... because many years ago - ships actually had tillers which were then worked by rope tackles ... the commands were based on the tiller - not on direction of turn.
Its only in recent years that movies have actually adopted the factual orders accordingly. I suppose their argument being that before - it would confuse and anyway - no-one watching would notice ... Oh Yeh !!
Personally ? "“tiller hard over to starboard” ??
I would immediately ask what - turn or tiller ? causing who gave the command to focus on me - while I put TILLER to stbd ...
But TBH - who would say that ?? Most I think would just cut it short to - "Starboard you b****d !! "
Its only in recent years that movies have actually adopted the factual orders accordingly. I suppose their argument being that before - it would confuse and anyway - no-one watching would notice ... Oh Yeh !!
Personally ? "“tiller hard over to starboard” ??
I would immediately ask what - turn or tiller ? causing who gave the command to focus on me - while I put TILLER to stbd ...
But TBH - who would say that ?? Most I think would just cut it short to - "Starboard you b****d !! "
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Why? Lots of people have never been on a boat before.
Coaching novices requires some thought from the skipper. No point getting shouty. Help them.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Naval steering orders kill off any slightest ambiguity.This brings us to Naval Commands ... because many years ago - ships actually had tillers which were then worked by rope tackles ... the commands were based on the tiller - not on direction of turn.
Its only in recent years that movies have actually adopted the factual orders accordingly. I suppose their argument being that before - it would confuse and anyway - no-one watching would notice ... Oh Yeh !!
Personally ? "“tiller hard over to starboard” ??
I would immediately ask what - turn or tiller ? causing who gave the command to focus on me - while I put TILLER to stbd ...
But TBH - who would say that ?? Most I think would just cut it short to - "Starboard you b****d !! "
I would be given the order, for example, 'come left, steer xxx degrees' which I would repeat back.
I pass that to the planes man ' port 10 steer xxx degrees' which he repeats back and does it.
That's a trained well oiled fit and lean fighting machine.
On a yacht, I help people to understand but I do ask if they are clear what they have to do. For me, that's coaching.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
If the order "Tiller hard over to starboard" is given to someone who
a) knows what the tiller is, and
b) knows which is the starboard side of the boat,
then I cannot see how there can be any misunderstanding of what he is required to do.
a) knows what the tiller is, and
b) knows which is the starboard side of the boat,
then I cannot see how there can be any misunderstanding of what he is required to do.
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Refueler
Well-Known Member
Naval steering orders kill off any slightest ambiguity.
I would be given the order, for example, 'come left, steer xxx degrees' which I would repeat back.
I pass that to the planes man ' port 10 steer xxx degrees' which he repeats back and does it.
That's a trained well oiled fit and lean fighting machine.
On a yacht, I help people to understand but I do ask if they are clear what they have to do. For me, that's coaching.
Go back to 1800's etc. and orders were Tiller commands ... even right up into first years of 1900 ...
I agree that your comment solves it ... my orders to Helmsman on ships was always as example : Port xx bring her to xxx heading etc. But for last 100yrs or so - even Naval commands have followed the TURN format and not Tiller.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Hoping that the person giving the order knows what he's doing ...
wonkywinch
Well-Known Member
It's like all the RYA instructors (in the Solent at least) teaching "standard" tacking calls to include "helm to lee" when most of the training yachts have a wheel.
"When I nod my head, hit it"
"When I nod my head, hit it"
Poignard
Well-Known Member
If the person giving the order does not know what the tiller is, and what is the starboard side of the boat, then he is is not fit to be giving orders.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
14K478
Well-Known Member
I was the person who used the phrase, and I used it in the specific context of maneuvering the boat under power in a confined space at low speed, which is what the discussion was about.. It wasn't a helm order, it was a description of what the helmsperson does with the tiller.
This is what I wrote:
I find my fin keel boat much more awkward than her predecessor which had a full keel, a tiny engine with an offset prop and a bowsprit. She could be relied on to do two things - to turn to port on a sixpence (shove tiller hard over to starboard, give several short bursts of full ahead) and put her stern into the wind if she was left in astern for any length of time and if there was enough wind.
This boat has eight feet between the prop and the skeg rudder and she is completely unpredictable, because there is no prop was left by the time it gets to the rudder, and the prop is too close to the CLR to act as a "sea anchor".
I find it very hard indeed to believe that FredRussell didn't know what I meant.
Still, I seem to have given a lot of people a lot of fun.
This is what I wrote:
I find my fin keel boat much more awkward than her predecessor which had a full keel, a tiny engine with an offset prop and a bowsprit. She could be relied on to do two things - to turn to port on a sixpence (shove tiller hard over to starboard, give several short bursts of full ahead) and put her stern into the wind if she was left in astern for any length of time and if there was enough wind.
This boat has eight feet between the prop and the skeg rudder and she is completely unpredictable, because there is no prop was left by the time it gets to the rudder, and the prop is too close to the CLR to act as a "sea anchor".
I find it very hard indeed to believe that FredRussell didn't know what I meant.
Still, I seem to have given a lot of people a lot of fun.
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Refueler
Well-Known Member
It can be said that the addition of one word can change the form ...
"tiller hard over to starboard"
could be construed as turn to stbd by some ...
but ..
"shove tiller hard over to starboard,"
that word 'shove' would mean Tiller to stbd side.
The thread title was without the word "shove" .....
