What’s it like to sail in the UK?

cmckesson

New member
Joined
15 Aug 2004
Messages
26
Visit site
Hi.

I am an American, sailing a 1968 Columbia 36 sloop. In 2007 we plan to sail to Ireland, and then tour the UK for a couple of years.

As part of our planning we have obtained a copy of the Shell Channel Pilot secondhand, and are just beginning to get the “flavor” of sailing in your waters.

As a bit of background, we are currently on the Pacific coast. We have sailed extensively in Puget Sound. We have cruised the boat from Canada down to Mexico. In the next few months I will ship the boat overland to the Chesapeake Bay. (Work related move.) We used to live on the Chesapeake with a much smaller boat, and feel we have some comfort with those waters as well. We’ll spend a couple of years there before heading across.

Our boat has no engine, and has not had for many years. Instead she has a small electric drive, which we use to get in and out of marinas. We can make about 3 knots under power, and have a range of about 10 miles. We do not have enough power to steam against a 20 knot headwind, but when we have 20 kts of wind we always sail. (or wait!)

As we read the Channel Pilot we are amazed at the amount of thin water and narrow channels you have. I look at illustrations like River Hamble and I try to imagine having to beat up the river in 20 knots of breeze, and probably with a foul current as well. The photo I have shows lots of anchored boats in and flanking the channel, making such a sail something of a dodge-‘em game. … Or here’s a photo of Newtown River…Wow. Yarmouth looks OK, easy to deal with. Lymington looks not too bad, if you can avoid the ferry. Christchurch looks tough. And I can’t imagine making it up the River Frome to Wareham.

My hope is that a lot of this is because I don’t know the waters. I say all these names as if I know the places they refer to, but I assure you that they are just names in a book to me at present. I’d bet that if I were to look at charts of my own waters, with no firsthand knowledge of them, I’d reach the same conclusion. I mean, I didn’t have any trouble in San Francisco (which is very shallow, and has a fair amount of wind.) And I don’t have any trouble up here (Puget Sound) with our 5 meters of tide and 4+ knot currents.

I don’t quite know what I’m asking for. I guess I’m hoping you will say “it’s not hard to sail here, you get used to it.” Or that one of you will say “I have sailed my 8 tonne Watchamacallit for 27 years without an engine, and only had to be towed off once.” But let ‘em roll fellas – I’ve never met a sailor who didn’t have an opinion or two (or three!) Share yours with me. What’s it really like to sail in the UK?

Thanks!

Chris McKesson


<hr width=100% size=1>
 

William_H

Well-known member
Joined
28 Jul 2003
Messages
14,079
Location
West Australia
Visit site
Hi Chris I am interested to see the replies. I have visited UK 4 times as an interested yachtie but never ventured to sail. The tides and the weather put me right off. I can't imagine you trying to manage without an engine although obviously there are many centuries of sailing tradition with out engines. I reckon however that an engine should be your first priority especially as it can open up the canals in UK and France to you. I visited Chesapeake bay a few years back traversing the long bridge tunnels a few times. I didn't think the area as pretty as I imagined. Did I miss something? I would however love to try that Intracoastal Canal system further south. Anyway good luck with your travels. I for one would love to hear how you got on. regards will

<hr width=100% size=1>
 

Shakey

New member
Joined
5 Apr 2004
Messages
464
Location
The People\'s Republic Of South Yorkshire
Visit site
Hiya, welcome to the UK!

If you're used to sailing in 4kt tides and 5m tidal ranges then you'll find most British sailing within the capabilities of both you and your boat.

I don't know much about the areas you are used to sailing, but I know British waters especially the English Channel are some of the busiest waterways in the world. Prepare yourself to dodge some very large ships in narrow waters, including ships too large for the Panama Canal.

Yes, some of the south coast harbours are thin and narrow, and sometimes the harbourmaster disapproves of sailing up them and the local regulations insist on engine power in busier areas.

I remember a post here some months back from a US sailing 'purist' for want of a better word who was saying that sailing boats shouldn't have engines and to rely on one was against the spirit of sailing.

There was loads of replies stating that it is impractical to rely on sail alone in the UK, people have to get back to work on time and you can't sail into marinas etc.

With regards to sailing in the UK, the standing joke is that it's cheaper to stand under a cold shower and rip £10 notes up. (Or $20 bills in your case!).

Don't mean to put you off, if you do come to the UK then spend some weeks off the Western Isles in Scotland, fantastic sailing, brilliant scenery, but very tidal!

Oh, and don't forget to visit Yorkshire. ;-) Scarborough, Whitby, Capt Cook etc.

Best wishes,

Shakey.

PS. I don't know how strong your electric drive is, you probably need some sort of engine in these waters.

<hr width=100% size=1>It could have been worse - it could have been me.
 

roger

New member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
1,142
Location
Overwinter in Sweden, sail in Northern Baltic, liv
Visit site
The South coast of the UK is exorbitantly expensive. YM quoted about 40 pounds (70 dollars a few years ago for an 11 metre boat at one marina in Dartmouth. Everywhere you stop in a marina or at anchor you will be charged.
2. Tidal streams are fierce. They reach perhaps 6 knots in the solent at springs. Without an engine you may find it useful to learn the art of "drudging"; drifting backwards under control with the rudder and with the anchor dragging on the ground.
3. Its very crowded, particularly at weekends. In the Solent you will need to get to harbour early to find a space.
I live in the south west and have moved my boat to Sweden partly because of 1,2 and 3.
You are of course welcome but you will find cheaper harbours in France and better food.

<hr width=100% size=1>Roger
 

cliff

Active member
Joined
15 Apr 2004
Messages
9,468
Location
various
Visit site
Don't put our colonial cousin off!

Here in Scotland it costs nothing to drop the hook and many places have FREE buoys for the use of visiting yachts.

I agree with other comments - west coast of Scotland takes some beating and the natives are hospitable

<hr width=100% size=1>
hammer.thumb.gif
 

jeffro

New member
Joined
4 Mar 2004
Messages
139
Location
se Folkestone
Visit site
This year like many before we sailed to Holland the wind was mostly from the east
[on our nose} so an engine was very important also entering many ports such as Dover in a strong tide with a 3 knot electric motor dosnt bear thinking about everything else is possible with a small diesel also france is a very nice place much cheaper also if you sailed up the river Somme you would never get out again with an electric motor because of the tides! Jeffro

<hr width=100% size=1>
 

snowleopard

Active member
Joined
16 May 2001
Messages
33,645
Location
Oxford
Visit site
you can sail without engine in UK waters, it's just that you will find some harbours are very tricky. you obviously know all about working the tides. forget the canals, the UK canal system is unique, most of it is built for boats of 6ft beam, 70ft length and 2ft draft. the lock gates are 6ft wide!, headroom under bridges is as little as 5ft in places.



<hr width=100% size=1>
 

boatmike

Well-known member
Joined
30 Jun 2002
Messages
7,044
Location
Solent
Visit site
Hi!
I am a Brit who used to live in San Diego and have sailed SF Bay and Padget Sound so lets see if I can put this in perspective for you.
It's not impossible to get around the UK without an engine but there are places such as the Solent where it would be necessary to go to anchor and wait for slack water before entering say Yarmouth, or the Hamble with only 3 knots capability.
The UK is a tremendously varied sailing ground and you need to "work the tides" most places. The average weekend Brit typically sails a 30-36ft sloop with a 15-25 HP inboard engine which makes it possible to plug against moderate tides, so many have never developed the traditional art of sailing without an engine. It is possible to do so still but the number of little boats and ferries in (for instance) the Solent, where I now live would make it a nightmare at weekends to do so, especially at spring tides when the streams can reach 6 knots in places on spring tides.... The biggest problem however is that you will find hundreds of other boats entering and leaving the busy harbours at slack water for the same reasons and it's a bit like playing checkers on the LA freeway..... Beating up the Hamble against a tide is just impractical. The river is so full of pile moorings that there just ain't room... Don't let that put you off though, there are plenty of places to go other than the Hamble which frankly I would not go out of my way to visit anyway!
Also, another thing to be aware of generally crossing over to this side of the pond, is the weather. You have the advantage of a large land mass giving relatively settled or predictable weather where you are in comparison with the UK. The UK is slap bang on the lattitude between polar and tropical Atlantic air streams with loads of frontal systems, and rapidly changing weather. While the weather forecasts from our Met Office are brilliant the timing is unpredictable and you can set off in sunshine with 10knots and within a couple of hours you are in 30 knots of squally rain. Wind directions also vary rapidly and what was a fair wind can be on the nose in no time at all!
Frankly if I were doing the trip I would seriously think of biting the bullet and fitting a small diesel inboard. It would make your trip far safer and less fraught and enable you to go places on the same basis as others over here in that if it all looks like going pear shaped you can start the old "iron spinnaker" and get the hell outa there!
But hey! Don't let it put you off..... It's possible to get by OK with a 3 Knot electric drive.... You will just not need to make mistakes with your tidal stream calculations and carry a spare anchor or two that's all!

<hr width=100% size=1>
 

TrueBlue

Well-known member
Joined
30 Apr 2004
Messages
4,476
Location
Sussex
Visit site
Snowleopard is right (well nearly) about the English narrow canals (except that the locks are 7ft. wide. The narrow canals are mostly inland, from Oxford to Manchester via Birmingham. However, there are broad canals 14ft wide from London to Birmingham and others which connect to the sea via river navigations - mostly in the North. The air draft is very limited on the inland bits and the depth of water is mostly 3ft. if you're lucky.

However, you should not dismiss the Thames, IMO one of the best ways to see and visit London is by boat. You can moor in Limehouse basin, and St.Katherine's dock for a whole lot less than the cost of a hotel, and you're right in the heart of the City of London. You can navigate the Thames as far as Oxford - another town best visited from the water. Depths and air draft vary.

You will need an engine for all the above - perhaps a 10hp+ outboard would be adequate.

You should be aware that the weather over here is problematic. We don't have extremes of temperature, but the humidity makes it feel cold. Today (here) it is foggy and 6 degrees celsius, but it feels far worse. The "summer" - if we get one can be glorious (you would call it "mild"), otherwise it can feel gloomy.

If you avoid the South Coast pressure areas around Portsmouth then not only are the locals friendly, but costs are lower too.

You need to do some research to get the best out of your trip - but as our waters are narrow by US standards you will need some motive power, so get that sorted out (in principle) and then come back.

I'm a ditch crawler, so am not authoritative about "proper" sailing, but do live on the south coast - may be able to give you more local information.

<hr width=100% size=1>
x_sm.gif
Stop what you're doing and wait my signal
 

Modulation

Member
Joined
30 May 2001
Messages
495
Location
finder
Visit site
I agree wholly with you. Clearly you could get by with just the electric drive but you would be making what could be a real pleasure into a constant worry every time you wanted to leave/enter harbour...................and why would you want to do that?
Bite the bullet and fit a small inboard.

<hr width=100% size=1>Brendan
 

macd

Active member
Joined
25 Jan 2004
Messages
10,604
Location
Bricks & mortar: Italy. Boat: Aegean
Visit site
Agree with other posters that W Scotland is The Place, providing you can stand the weather and the midges (small biting flies, a bit like mozzies). Ireland, too, which sounds like your first landfall, is a fantastic place to explore. But I certainly wouldn't fancy W Ireland without a decent engine. Apart from being a huge lee shore, to paraphrase the pilot book: 'seas can remain lumpy long after the storms that created them have gone...creating miserable conditions with little wind, flapping sails and much rolling'.

Whatever you decide to do, good winds and good luck.



<hr width=100% size=1>
 

Wiggo

New member
Joined
10 Sep 2003
Messages
6,021
Location
In front of the bloody computer again
Visit site
<blockquote><font size=1>Quote from previous post:</font><hr>

Christchurch looks tough.

<hr></blockquote>


Hehehe. We've had a small skiboat on the plane in the Run while holding alongside the quay wall before now. The channel is down to 35' wide in places, so I'm afraid you really will need a motor here. Worth the visit, though. But I would say that, wouldn't I..?

<hr width=100% size=1>Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes.
 

Phoenix of Hamble

Active member
Joined
28 Aug 2003
Messages
20,966
Location
East Coast
mishapsandmemories.blogspot.com
Further to others comments, there are many places to sail in the UK that are very definately worth a visit if you have the time.... Scotland has already been mentioned, and sometimes can be just breathtaking.... the West Country (SW England) is a truly beautiful place to sail, with some extraodinarily pretty harbours and anchorages, and history oozing from every corner..... much of the Welsh coast is great sailing, and very pretty. There are the Channel Islands, where you can discover what REAL tidal flow is about, with 10Kts being found in places, but very friendly people, and brilliant seafood....

Yes, the weather can sometimes let you down, but then again, it can also suprise you with hot breezy days.... but more importantly, we are a sailing nation, and generally you wll be welcomed in most places with open arms..... (sadly like any country on the planet, you will very occassionally find an exception)

As for sailing without an engine, I agree with the sentiment above.... it would be possible, but you woud spend half your time waiting for appropriate tidal conditions, and the other half wishing you could get that extra bit further inland... especially relevant in some of the english ports like Plymouth where so much oportunity to explore inland a little way and discover secret anchorages exists...

Come on over, the UK is a great place to sail....

(Can I have that job with the Tourist board now?)

<hr width=100% size=1>
 

Talbot

Active member
Joined
23 Aug 2003
Messages
13,610
Location
Brighton, UK
Visit site
You should also consider that the small diesel will provide generation of power as well as motive force. If you are running on an electric motor, you could consider a larger electric motor and a proper generator (several boat builders are now providing this as an option (e.g. Lagoon) and Sonic sillette provide a suitable motor/leg combo. Either way you will need power for lights, radios, fridges, pumps, autopilot etc, and there is unlikely to be a surplus for an electric motor.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 

cmckesson

New member
Joined
15 Aug 2004
Messages
26
Visit site
Thanks for all the replies so far.

Regarding the electric drive: We sail the boat AS IF she is engineless, by which I mean that we carefully consider our tides and currents, and we try to avoid Sunday afternoons, and so forth. But we do have power, and we do try (not always successfully, I am chagrined to admit) to not be one of those who are sailing in crowded harbors and demanding their rights when prudence would have you furl and motor.

The next two years on the Chesapeake will be good practice for me, as it is fairly crowded and shallow.

I have been planning an electric upgrade to a somewhat more powerful setup, and I am now, thanks to your comments, even more convinced that this is called for. Yes, many harbor entrances are, for us, anxiety-filled when for a powerboater they would be calm.

Somebody suggested looking at the modern yachts that are coming out with electric drives. To him I say "Yes, exactly. That's what I've done, it's just that I built mine before they invented their's." My goal is not - emphatically NOT - to be engineless, it is instead to be electric. (We do have a 2kW gen set.) I guess I should change my description from "engineless" to "underpowered." We have about 4kW of motor power. Let me put the question this way: What speed capability would for your harbour represent the crossover to "dangerously underpowered?" Clearly your consensus is that a 36 footer with a single long sculling oar is "dangerously underpowered." But you are not like the chaps in my marina who have 50+ hp on a 26 foot sailboat. Where's your personal line?

I knew about the Solent - I have all of Uffa Fox's books on my shelves. The impression I get from you fellows is that the Channel coast is your "Marina del Rey" (crowded with weekend boaters), and Scotland is your "Alaska." Indeed, it is for exactly these reasons that we fancy Ireland and the Irish Sea (both sides) as our desired cruising ground. Our fantasy (I dare not call it a "plan"<smile>) is to sail to Ireland, then wander the Irish East Coast. Then winter on the south side of Wales, or Bristol. Then through the Caledonian canal (where 3 knots might be about right, no?) and out the other side headed for Norway. (Have visited Norway many times - their waters look exactly like Puget Sound.)

We would also like to visit the Channel Islands. My wife is a great fan of Gerald Durrell and 'needs' to go to the zoo at Jersey.

The Scillies look like wonderful cruising.

We used to live in France, and have some favorite haunts in Cherbourg. ... always wanted to go to Bordeaux, to stock up, eh what?

You get the picture: A dream cruise.

Your comment about prices - 40 pounds for 40 feet. I presume that is the transient price per night? Ouch! That is about what they charge in Annapolis Maryland, and that is why we anchor out in such places. We will be full time cruisers with no reliable income, so we'll be pinching the pennies pretty hard.

(It appears that I can get a work permit in the UK, as I qualify as a "Migrant with Desirable Skills." )

Do UK sailors travel to Ireland on holiday? Most stories I encounter have you going to France.

How about the flat countries - Holland and so forth. Of course, Erskine Childers occupies an honored place in the ship's library. Can a modern sailor follow in the wake of Dulcibella?

If you were to plan a several years cruise in European waters, where would you go?

Chris McKesson


<hr width=100% size=1>
 

Phoenix of Hamble

Active member
Joined
28 Aug 2003
Messages
20,966
Location
East Coast
mishapsandmemories.blogspot.com
"If you were to plan a several years cruise in European waters, where would you go?"

Gosh... now thats a question....!

Here's a plan...

Transatlantic to the Canary Islands.... Into the med via Gibraltar, through southern Spain and France reasonably quickly (but not too fast!)...

Spend some quality time in Southern Italy....Croatia and Greece... all ripe for historical explration.... could go into the Red Sea and do Ulysees route....

Work back via Sardinia, Cyprus and Balearics, and transit France through the Canals, via Paris.....

Out of Northern France into the Channel Islands.... visit the Zoo /forums/images/icons/wink.gif...

Across from the Channel Islands to West Country... visit Plymouth to see the Mayflower Steps, departure point of the Pilgrim fathers, because all Americans have to see that when they visit the west country /forums/images/icons/wink.gif.... across to Southern Ireland, up East Coast, hop across to Northern Wales, then on up to Scotland.....

Transit Caledonian Canal, and trek across to Baltics.... do Finland, Sweden and Norway at minimum.... work way back down eventually via Holland... visit the Friesen Islands... get the Dulcibella bit out of your system /forums/images/icons/wink.gif....

Work down to Northern France, across to Solent... just because you can't sail all that way without visiting the Solent!....

Then work your way back down to Northern France, around Biscay via some of the lovely French locations, through Spain and into Portugal... back down to Canaries, and off home....

Do you think you could do every bit of Europe that has a coastline in 'a few years'!?

Sounds like a dream trip to me.....


<hr width=100% size=1>
 

Birdseye

Well-known member
Joined
9 Mar 2003
Messages
28,523
Location
s e wales
Visit site
Remember we are up at the latitude of N Canada so the UK is (by US standards) windy, wet and cold. You are likely to do rather more heavy weather sailing than back home, and given the shape of the UK and the prevailing West / South West winds, quite a bit of this is likely to be hard on the wind. You also need to recognise that the UK is a small island situated at the join of the artic and tropical maritime air masses so our weather is nothing like as predictable as yours , and so it will be much easier to get caught out. If you boat sails well to windward and is handy to short tack then no problem. If not, get a good powerful diesel engine.

The South coast is a bit of an anti heap in sailing terms - the population of the UK isnt evenly distributed. Something like 55 of the 60 million is in England (half the land area if that) and even then is skewed towards the South East. This means in turn that there is lots of pressure and consequently expensive sailing in that corner of the country stretching up to the Solent and beyond. Personally, I would avoid the Solent - if you are going to have unpleasant experiences of being ripped off, meeting aggressive mobo drivers etc it is most likely to be there.

But outside this limited area, there are lots of nice places to sail to at reasonable costs. Wales for example. And yes, we do sail to Eire, and its a good if expensive place to visit.




<hr width=100% size=1>this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.
 

Lizzie_B

New member
Joined
27 Oct 2003
Messages
1,336
Location
Bermuda since 2017. Formerly Emsworth and Bedford.
Visit site
Will be moving my boat from florida to chesapeake next year. If you pm me then maybe we could get together and chat. I am a welshman who has sailed all round the UK and recently have done the bulk of my sailing in the Solent and West Country areas. After being brought up on the Bristol Channel with it's 12 to 14 metre tides, I never thought of the Solent as having big tides, but two recent trips to sail in the USA, one in Florida and one in the Great Lakes, made realise not everybody has to deal with so many tidal sums. Still the Bay of Fundy in the far North East of the US tops it all. I would say you need to be able to make at least five knots under power, or you will find yourself getting frustrated waiting out tides. You should also check out all the various EU rules if you are planning to stay in EU waters continuously for more than six months as you may suddenly find yourself liable to paying tax on the assessed value of your boat. But that is a whole other can of worms.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 

cmckesson

New member
Joined
15 Aug 2004
Messages
26
Visit site
Now that's a Cruise!

We have learned not to make plans, so it is with considerable hesitation that I have posted such plans as we have. Our real goal is to wander around until the funds run out, and then hope that the kids are making enough to support their aged parents! (Only about half kidding, too!)

But I shall keep your interary in mind!

I had a Norwegian buddy strongly suggest I should go to Tromso, and another thread on YBW had a delightful sounding discussion of the Baltic.

So many places to go! So much ocean to love! So little time to sail! Best start early, what?

<smile>

Chris

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Top