Westerly Jouster advice sought

[ndt228]

I have owned my 1974-built Jouster for about 6 years, and she suits me well enough, mainly day-sailing single-handed on Lough Neagh, in Northern Ireland. However I have just discovered a problem with signs of subsidence of the mast base, which is mainly evident by the crack in the internal fibreglass, directly below the mast (and above the entrance to the forepeak) in the attached pictures. I can also feel rather than see a slight depression in the coachroof just behind the tabernacle,,,,,
I have only just discovered the issue and have done no investigation yet. My impression is that the cracked fibreglass layer is not "structural", but rather a covering (very roughly applied) for some kind of beam that joins the two "doorposts" which are substantial box-section aluminium and rise from cabin sole to coachroof. Is there anyone familiar with this construction (perhaps used in other small Westerly's ?) and can tell me more ? Does anyone know if the deck had any kind of core that may have become wet and collapsed ?
My current theory is that either the beam itself (hidden behind the fibreglass) has begun to collapse due to corrosion or rot, or else the coachroof core has rotted, and sagged towards the (intact) beam thereby stressing the visible fibreglass covering to the point of cracking. Any comment or advice is welcome !
My other question relates to the tabernacle. Obviously I want to get the load off the coachroof, to reduce stress and enable repairs to be started. However, at my marina mast raising/lowering has always been done when craning-out, and even as a shared expense it has always been costly (£150 to lower and later replace). Under current circumstances I have no idea when or if there will a craning at all in 2020. I would therefore like to lower the mast by pivoting on the tabernacle bolt (with all due care wrt temporary shouds etc) but I am concerned that although there is some play in the bolthole through the mast there doesn't seem to be enough to allow the mast to pivot on the rear of its (flat) base. Hence the tabernacle might get torn out of the coachroof. Once again does anyone have experience of a similar installation. Incidentally, a Jouster is about the same size as a Corribee
Many Thanks, Nick

 

[neil_s]

The Sunray 21 I owned some years ago had a very similar short tabernacle. The mast did pivot and I found it easy to raise and lower it by myself using a grassy bank about six feet high. If you nose into the bank and put a painter ashore, you can stand on the bank and lower the mast down using an extension to your jib halliard. You do need to be careful and have a plan for the job. One time I tried it, I tied off the halyard on the bank and climbed back onto the boat to undo the forestay. While climbing back over the pulpit, I watched in horror as my knot came undone. The mast descended - it bounced on the sliding hatch and bent till it touched the water - it rose again to at least half it's normal height before descending and bouncing again and again. Shocked silence. I clambered aft to assess the damage. Surprisingly - there was none! The mast was not bent, the sail track wasn't dented, the sliding hatch still slid.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I had a 1976 Jouster (one of the last) for many years. She didn't look like yours, though, because the doorway through my bulkhead had a round top and the vertical posts were made of wood and on the forecabin side. Here's a picture - I added the handrails.

I think yours has been modified, perhaps by having a completely new bulkhead fitted. On the other hand, there is one in the Yachtsnet archive which looks as if it may be like yours, so perhaps Westerly built them both ways. In your case at the very least I would cut away that beam above the door and see what's going on - the crack doesn't look at all healthy. They are small boats and whatever has gone awry shouldn't be too hard to fix.

I'm not sure what your worry is about the tabernacle. I'd have thought the idea would be to pivot it on the bolt. There again, though, your boat appears to be non-standard, as neither of the two masts fitted had a tabernacle. Here is the manual page on raising and lowering masts:

It looks to me as if someone has done some major modifications including both bulkhead and tabernacle.

I regularly raised and lowered mine myself, including while afloat to service masthead things. I would run a line from the coachroof-mounted jib halyard winch under the bow roller and up to the eye at the bottom of the forestay (ie the top of the bottlescrew). Take the tension on that, loosen the bottlescrew and disconnect the bottom end, ease out the line from the winch and down it comes. Just at the point where the line couldn't hold it any more I'd me able to reach up and lower it the rest of the way by hand. Re-erection a straightforward reversal, but make sure you tie the outer bottlescrews up as they say or you will bend one. I could do both ways myself (I'm 6' 4") but it was easier with two.

If you would like a pdf copy of the manual, PM me an email address.

 

[johnalison]

I had a little depression of the coachroof on my Mystere which appeared soon after we got her new. It seemed to be quite stable as it never changed after that. The depression of the Jouster coachroof isn't obvious from the photo to me but it looks vaguely similar. The crack inside looks unpleasant, but in reality you won't know until you have stripped it back what is going on inside. My Mystere had a balsa sandwich roof but I'm fairly sure that Westerlys didn't at that time, since I had a Cirrus in 1971.

 

[ndt228]

Thanks to all 3 responders ! From another forum, I have heard that on a related craft from Westerly the support beam is made of wood, and the repair doesn't sound too daunting once I have cut back the fibreglass. To explain my concern about lowering the mast myself (which I have been thinking about, perhaps too much, for years): Unlike the illustration posted above from the manual, my mast doesn't have an end-fitting with an in-built pivot point, but is secured into the tabernacle by a bolt about 6" above the base, rather than down at the heel. You can see the hex head of the bolt in my picture. However, the weight of the mast is not taken by the bolt, it sits on its flat base, and it will try to pivot on the rear of the heel as it comes down, which means the bolt-hole will try to move in an arc, rather than being the pivot point. Unless/until the heel can skate forward in the tabernacle, as the through-hole in the mast has some wobble room (there's an inset tube which is not rigidly attached to the mast extrusion). If it can't/won't/doesn't do that, then the tabernacle itself will try to turn, and with that sort of leverage I could see it being torn out of the coachroof - just as if the mast had gone over sideways. I can forestall that by taking the bolt out, but then theres nothing the stop the mast base shooting out foward as it is lowered.
Anyway, thanks for your encouragement, and I will try to find some local help/advice about the mast. Trouble is, most owners I know use the craning service.......

 

[JumbleDuck]

Unlike the illustration posted above from the manual, my mast doesn't have an end-fitting with an in-built pivot point, but is secured into the tabernacle by a bolt about 6" above the base, rather than down at the heel. You can see the hex head of the bolt in my picture. However, the weight of the mast is not taken by the bolt, it sits on its flat base, and it will try to pivot on the rear of the heel as it comes down, which means the bolt-hole will try to move in an arc, rather than being the pivot point.

That's really weird. Why did someone go to all the trouble of making and fitting an unusable tabernacle? Is there maybe enough slack in the system that the mast can lift itself over the hump, if you we what I mean, and then pivot down?

 

[Concerto]

I have lifted a mast out of a 22ft racing boat using a larger boat with a spinnaker pole. Very easy and were able to clear the jammed main halyard on the ¾ rig and then restep the mast. Only took a couple of hours in total on the water. It did mean I missed a race, but I raced the following day.

 

[jwilson]

I don't think your interior is as Westerly built it: all too rough. Crack on internal beam looks nasty: has someone wound up shrouds far far too tight? Does look as though it needs sorting.

Paying for a crane to take out a 21 footer mast is OTT. Why not try as a first step taking jib halyard to bow roller to take forestay tension, releasing the forestay, and seeing of the mast does actually hinge backwards maybe 5-10 degrees without "catching" on the heel fitting. If so get three or four people aboard and carefully lower it all the way.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Sorry can't give you any advice on your Jouster, just commenting that I used to crew/race for a friend who had a Jouster back in the early 70's when I had a Leisure 17.
Nice boat and I seem to remember that they went quite well, but he always complained about a poor seal between deck and hull.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Sorry can't give you any advice on your Jouster, just commenting that I used to crew/race for a friend who had a Jouster back in the early 70's when I had a Leisure 17.
Nice boat and I seem to remember that they went quite well, but he always complained about a poor seal between deck and hull.

They were originally designed for JOG racing. The hull is basically a cut-down Warwick, reduced from 3,700lb to 2,200lb, and the rig was borrowed, more-or-less, from the slightly larger and much heavier Cirrus. With a deep fin-and-bulb keel, the result went like poo off a shovel and in fact was a bit too hairy for cruising, so later ones had a significantly shorter boom and smaller mainsail (same mast, though) to tame things a bit.

They also introduced a more luxurious interior for cruising, with headlining and wood effect bulkhead. Your friend's experience with the hull-deck join was mine as well. The trouble in my case was the 1/4" bolts which held on the Westerly teak rubbing strip and which worked loose as the hull flexed. Water would then get in behind the headlining and re-emerge in unlikely places.

That and the falling headlining apart, it was lovely wee boat which took me all over the place.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Hi Jumbleduck
Now you mention the 1/4" rubbing strake bolts it comes back to me, that is what he narrowed it down to.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Now you mention the 1/4" rubbing strake bolts it comes back to me, that is what he narrowed it down to.

Just to add to the fun, they are 1/4" BSW and the nuts are encapsulated ...

 

[Quandary]

Do they no longer have a crane by the slipway at Lugan? alternatively if she is in the Sixmilewater can you not get her upstream a bit and under a tree. Another idea, how about a rope lashing a few times round that tabernacle to restrain the foot then take out the bolt and drop her with the jib halyard. Before putting it up again you could look at the geometry at the foot, some sort of removable sleeve for the bolt to give you a bit of play as it pivots?
Get a few strong guys standing by when you start to move it, I used to sail in Lough Neagh for the winter series, we were able to get the mast of a 26' Trapper up and down at Lurgan and one year we managed it at Ballronan but we always had a mob of strong guys with us.

 

[ndt228]

That's really weird. Why did someone go to all the trouble of making and fitting an unusable tabernacle? Is there maybe enough slack in the system that the mast can lift itself over the hump, if you we what I mean, and then pivot down?

Hi,
I was hoping you'd respond as I had seen you refer to a Jouster on another thread, You have expressed exactly what I hope would be true - ie enough slack in the system that it will cope. However until its tried, I won't know. Interestingly my neighbour has a Hunter of about the same size or a little more, with a very similar tabernacle. In his case the mast does rest entirely on the bolt, with about 1cm (max) gap between the mast and the bases plate of the tabernacle. Its conceivable mine may have dropped about that far due to wear around the bolthole in the mast.
cheers, nick

 

[ndt228]

Do they no longer have a crane by the slipway at Lugan? alternatively if she is in the Sixmilewater can you not get her upstream a bit and under a tree. Another idea, how about a rope lashing a few times round that tabernacle to restrain the foot then take out the bolt and drop her with the jib halyard. Before putting it up again you could look at the geometry at the foot, some sort of removable sleeve for the bolt to give you a bit of play as it pivots?
Get a few strong guys standing by when you start to move it, I used to sail in Lough Neagh for the winter series, we were able to get the mast of a 26' Trapper up and down at Lurgan and one year we managed it at Ballronan but we always had a mob of strong guys with us.

Nice to meet someone who knows the area. She's lying at the council-run Kinnegoe marina at the South end of the Lough. No slipway at Lurgan that I know of; the council hire in a crane to do boat lifts a few times a year. Its a big one - far more than needed for a mast. Hence the £££ cost. I have a lead on someone who might have a a truck with a hiab. I am very inclined to DIY but there's a bit of shortage of burly chaps at present - and the boats so small that we couldn't fit too many on board. I am planning an A-frame and winch system.

 

[Quandary]

Sounds like you will sort it, good luck.
We do ours over here with a Hiab on a truck but it is a big one with a 20m. reach to deal with up to 15m. keel stepped masts and is not cheap. However the driver and his boss are excellent very quick but very precise. The slipway and crane we used to use was a Lough Neagh Sailing Club, Oxford Island, you just turned up and used them, there must have been a charge because we were not members but it can not have been too much. I suppose elfin safety has put an end to that.
I used to sail out of EABC at Larne or later at Carrickfergus but trail her to Lough Neagh for the Antrim winter series, happy days breaking the ice to get out of the river.

 

[ndt228]

The sailing club you knew at Oxford Island became the one now based at Kinnegoe marina, back towards the land by3/4 mile or so. As mentioned its council-run hence the elfins are about, but also the club demography has shifted up the age range as there are not so many newcomers. The only club facilioty is the clubhouse and a petrol-driven pressure washer AFAIK. Hence less DIY I reckon, beyond the annual scrape and paint. The nearest actual boatyard will be on the coast, Bangor, Carrickfergus etc where theres either racing, fishing or both....
I have now investigated beneath the fibreglass to reveal a cracked wooden beam. No rot though. Once the mast is down the repair should be straightforward, and the deck is too thin to have a core to worry about.

 

[Rappey]

The beam under the mast that appears broken looks like it's already had an amateur repair as the grp is very rough. The same possible repair looks to go along the centre of the roof towards the washboard.
Maybe the ply bulkhead used to be similar to jumbleducks pic, it may have let in water over the years through a fitting around the mast base , weakened the ply below causing it to crush further , so someone has cut out the ply, bolted in 2 aluminium poles, glassed along the centre of the roof as maybe it to was cracking and glassed in a beam between the two poles which has now also failed.
The 4 bolts in the tabernacle do not appear to be visible inside ?
What are the aluminium poles sat on ?
A mast on a 21ft boat is not that heavy. It's quite easy to lower standing behind it with your own arms and walk back whilst lowering.
I saw a guy in companionway on 21ft boat as mast was being lowered. The guy on the forward rope just let go, mast fell back, guy in companionway put up his arms and caught it ! I asked him if he was hurt but he just shrugged his shoulders ,smiled and said no problem..
When the mast is down to 45 degree angle and your standing under it there is not a huge amount of weight. Another person with a forward line to control it's initial decent and it's usually easy.
As for your pivot scenario, the mast is being pulled down under pressure so once rigging is slack I'm sure a quick tug from a rear halyard would make it pivot ?

 

[ndt228]

I don't think your interior is as Westerly built it: all too rough. Crack on internal beam looks nasty: has someone wound up shrouds far far too tight? Does look as though it needs sorting.

Paying for a crane to take out a 21 footer mast is OTT. Why not try as a first step taking jib halyard to bow roller to take forestay tension, releasing the forestay, and seeing of the mast does actually hinge backwards maybe 5-10 degrees without "catching" on the heel fitting. If so get three or four people aboard and carefully lower it all the way.

FYI As purchased, the boat had headlining, with the classic westerly droop feature. Also a fairly basic fit-out of the main cabin providing some storage racks and cubbyholes. I stripped this out as part of removing the headling and the muck behind it. Some headlining went behind the woodwork. Did a lot of clean-up and then a coat of white paint, and decided that as I don't often spend a night aboard. let alone more, it would do for the present.
Re paying for craning for the mast - I agree in principle, but the devils in the detail when it comes to DIY. Meanwhile I have investigated below the cracked fibreglass to reveal a cracked wooden beam, but no wet, and no sign of rot.

 

[ndt228]

The beam under the mast that appears broken looks like it's already had an amateur repair as the grp is very rough. The same possible repair looks to go along the centre of the roof towards the washboard.
Maybe the ply bulkhead used to be similar to jumbleducks pic, it may have let in water over the years through a fitting around the mast base , weakened the ply below causing it to crush further , so someone has cut out the ply, bolted in 2 aluminium poles, glassed along the centre of the roof as maybe it to was cracking and glassed in a beam between the two poles which has now also failed.
The 4 bolts in the tabernacle do not appear to be visible inside ?
What are the aluminium poles sat on ?
A mast on a 21ft boat is not that heavy. It's quite easy to lower standing behind it with your own arms and walk back whilst lowering.
I saw a guy in companionway on 21ft boat as mast was being lowered. The guy on the forward rope just let go, mast fell back, guy in companionway put up his arms and caught it ! I asked him if he was hurt but he just shrugged his shoulders ,smiled and said no problem..
When the mast is down to 45 degree angle and your standing under it there is not a huge amount of weight. Another person with a forward line to control it's initial decent and it's usually easy.
As for your pivot scenario, the mast is being pulled down under pressure so once rigging is slack I'm sure a quick tug from a rear halyard would make it pivot ?

Thanks for the encouragement. Its a matter of getting up my nerve to try it. Its the first 10-15 degrees of tilt that will make or break the job. Not literally I hope !
See other posts for what I have found beneath the fibreglass. It was a very shoddy covering - could not have added any strength. The centreline along the coachroof is not a repair (I think) theres no sign of any damage on the coachroof. I think there was a wooden strip screwed into it as part of the headlining installation. The ends of the bolts from the tabernacle are glassed over. two in front of the beam, and two just behind it.