Ways to rig poled out Genoa

[eddystone]

I know the correct way to rig a poled out Genoa (135%) involves pole lift, down haul, fore and aft guys in addition to the Genoa sheets. Which is great except it’s not going to happen with only one or two aboard. Also only have the two cockpit winches and two (non self tailing) on the coachroof. So which is the best way to reduce the number of lines whilst minimising reduction in control?
Was thinking of rigging a down haul running forward so it is able to pull the pole down and forward, triangulating with pole lift and Genoa sheet.

 

[yoda]

Your idea is ok for a smaller boat (say upto about 32 ft) but for long distance and/or bigger boats I think you should also have a pole aft guy. If using for long distance work I would also suggest that an additional sheet run through a block on the end of the pole will ease handling and reduce wear.

 

[dunedin]

Fewer crew on board is not a reason to skimp on the pole control ropes. Quite the opposite.
Set the pole up with sail furled, to avoid it flapping around when on foredeck. Then unfurl when ready.
Also with a fully rigged pole it is very easy to quickly furl the genoa if need to, without touching the pole. Can even swap genoa over and sail with on the other side for as long as needed with pole still set. We sailed on a reach with pole#till set for 12 hours or so, before wind swung back and flipped back onto goose winged.
On the other hand, appreciate may be overkill for very small boat or if not got the right gear to enable.

 

[johnalison]

I must have been doing it wrong for thirty odd years as I’ve never felt the need for anything other than an uphaul to take the pole’s weight, though my experience is limited to 29 and 34’ boats and doesn’t include oceans, but does include true winds of 30+ knots. The pole might rise a little but, unlike with a spinnaker, is very limited in how far it can rise by a combination of the sheet and the jib’s foot. I like to keep the rig as simple as possible, along with my time on the foredeck and, like the above, set up and remove the pole with the sail furled.

 

[Poignard]

I must have been doing it wrong for thirty odd years as I’ve never felt the need for anything other than an uphaul to take the pole’s weight, though my experience is limited to 29 and 34’ boats and doesn’t include oceans, but does include true winds of 30+ knots. The pole might rise a little but, unlike with a spinnaker, is very limited in how far it can rise by a combination of the sheet and the jib’s foot. I like to keep the rig as simple as possible, along with my time on the foredeck and, like the above, set up and remove the pole with the sail furled.

Of course what you do is not wrong, but what Dunedin describes suits some people better; including me.

 

[LittleSister]

I know the correct way to rig a poled out Genoa (135%) involves pole lift, down haul, fore and aft guys in addition to the Genoa sheets.

Surely the fore and aft guys will be also pulling downward and render the separate downhaul redundant, even if you're not going to go as far as your suggestion or johnalison's approach (neither of which I have any bones about, but probably wouldn't do myself)?

 

[geem]

I must have been doing it wrong for thirty odd years as I’ve never felt the need for anything other than an uphaul to take the pole’s weight, though my experience is limited to 29 and 34’ boats and doesn’t include oceans, but does include true winds of 30+ knots. The pole might rise a little but, unlike with a spinnaker, is very limited in how far it can rise by a combination of the sheet and the jib’s foot. I like to keep the rig as simple as possible, along with my time on the foredeck and, like the above, set up and remove the pole with the sail furled.

The idea of a forward and aft guy plus the uphaul is the ability to set the pole up and have it safe and controlled before you even put the genoa out. Regardless of what you are doing with the genoa, the pole is safely under control.
We take the forward guy to the front cleat, the aft guy to the middle cleat and the uphaul lives on the mast on a cleat. Nothing comes back to the cockpit.
For trade wind sailing we rig a pole on each side with two headsails on seperate furlers. Easy for the onwatch crew to reef at night without leaving the cockpit or waking the off watch crew

 

[capnsensible]

For me, the fewer people you have on the boat, the more important it is that the pole is fixed by three lines and the headsail is independent.

As always, sorting it out before going to sea makes life so much simpler and practice makes perfect.

 

[William_H]

Obviously the answer to the OP is to try it out with just a topping lift. Even that is not essential but it does take the weight of the pole and ensures pole is not lost over board. I have found this adequate on a small boat. Experience for OP will show if it is adequate for him. To my mind what is more critical is pole length. A short pole can tame the jib when running. A longer pole can get jib out further to catch more wind but with more hassles. ol'will

 

[john_morris_uk]

Fewer crew on board is not a reason to skimp on the pole control ropes. Quite the opposite.
Set the pole up with sail furled, to avoid it flapping around when on foredeck. Then unfurl when ready.
Also with a fully rigged pole it is very easy to quickly furl the genoa if need to, without touching the pole. Can even swap genoa over and sail with on the other side for as long as needed with pole still set. We sailed on a reach with pole#till set for 12 hours or so, before wind swung back and flipped back onto goose winged.
On the other hand, appreciate may be overkill for very small boat or if not got the right gear to enable.

And use another sheet on the Genoa through the pole end. This means that if the worst comes to the worst and you had somebody overboard, or you suddenly need to sail upwind for any other pressing reason you can leave the pole out triangulated and still sail the boat upwind (perhaps with a little of the genoa rolled away) on the two normal sheets. This means you can tack and gybe in the normal way all without touching the pole at all. It’s a safe and seamanlike way to rig things.

(we just sailed over 2500 miles with exactly this rig. )

 

[johnalison]

The idea of a forward and aft guy plus the uphaul is the ability to set the pole up and have it safe and controlled before you even put the genoa out. Regardless of what you are doing with the genoa, the pole is safely under control.
We take the forward guy to the front cleat, the aft guy to the middle cleat and the uphaul lives on the mast on a cleat. Nothing comes back to the cockpit.
For trade wind sailing we rig a pole on each side with two headsails on seperate furlers. Easy for the onwatch crew to reef at night without leaving the cockpit or waking the off watch crew

My pole is stowed on the mast and all that is necessary is to disengage the lower end, swing it out a little and clip it onto the sheet, pull the upper end down with its line and shove the outer end of the pole forward a bit. With the pole now horizontal and fixed to the mast and jib sheet I return to the cockpit and unfurl the sail, by which time the clew has come out to the pole if I haven’t had the chance to get it there already. I can do without any more lines to deal with. The pole will behave itself with what I have and, unlike with a spinnaker there is really nothing to go wrong, even though I sailed and raced with spinnakers happily for 25 years without even getting a wrap. However, this was sea, and not ocean, sailing.

 

[Supertramp]

Years of sailing with no or only a single inner forestay made poling out easy, with no downhaul. Now I have twin lower shrouds forward giving a relatively narrow slot for the pole between main and fore shrouds. I use the fore and aft downhauls and uphaul. Works well, keeps the pole off the rigging and stays in control. Much easier singlehanded. It is a lot of bits of rope and I wish for a pin rail or similar to store them on, along with gybe preventer, jib sheets etc.

I like the idea of a separate jib sheet for the pole and will experiment.

 

[LadyInBed]

I have a single line attached to the end of my whisker pole. I set the sheet then tie off the whisker pole line to the forward spring cleat to stop the pole lifting.
Works for me ☺
PS I attach the whisker pole end to a rope quoit attached to the genoa clew so the pole end can't slide fore or aft.

 

[geem]

My pole is stowed on the mast and all that is necessary is to disengage the lower end, swing it out a little and clip it onto the sheet, pull the upper end down with its line and shove the outer end of the pole forward a bit. With the pole now horizontal and fixed to the mast and jib sheet I return to the cockpit and unfurl the sail, by which time the clew has come out to the pole if I haven’t had the chance to get it there already. I can do without any more lines to deal with. The pole will behave itself with what I have and, unlike with a spinnaker there is really nothing to go wrong, even though I sailed and raced with spinnakers happily for 25 years without even getting a wrap. However, this was sea, and not ocean, sailing.

When a squall hits with 35kts and you furl the genoa away, what do you do with the pole? With a triangulated attachment of downhauls and up haul the answer is nothing. It can sit there safely until conditions improve or until you furl the sail back out. Its a very safe way of handling a pole when conditions go a little wild unexpectedly. It's standard practise for those crossing the pond to set poles up in this way for lively down hill sailing. The last thing you need at night on a bouncing foredeck is a pole scything about uncontrollably when the boat rolls to the swell and you have furled the genoa

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Pole in-between the shrouds! Is this a good idea? I was told it should always be in front of the shrouds.
I don't use mine very often to be honest but I have it set up for 3 lines.

 

[Supertramp]

Pole in-between the shrouds! Is this a good idea? I was told it should always be in front of the shrouds.
I don't use mine very often to be honest but I have it set up for 3 lines.

There was a post on this called Whisker Pole a few years back. I agree and it restricts the angle for the pole. Much depends on the individual boats rigging, mast position and the sail.

Below is a Contessa 26 with the pole pointing forwards in front of the lowers (with spinnaker).


And here is a larger yacht with the poles between main and lowers (twin headsail).


I suspect that many cruising yachts poling out a genoa would need the pole at almost 90 degrees to the fore and aft line. With non swept back spreaders and twin forward lowers it will have to pass between them.

I have to do this and fixing the pole in position beforehand is essential except in sub 10knt wind. I think the separate sheet, with a long line to the snapshackle (thanks LittleSister), will help me.

Perhaps no-one else has this problem with forward lowers and a long foot genoa?

 

[roaringgirl]

We pole the genoa out to windward with topping lift, foreguy and afterguy. As mentioned above, it means you can rig the pole before you pick up the hook and roll the genoa up independently of the pole if necessary. A line runs up each side of the deck to a low-friction ring on a pad-eye at the bow. Each line has a snapshackle on the end. The windward line becomes the pole fore-guy, the leeward one becomes the main-preventer. If we choose to gybe, then I have to move the after-guy line to the other side. We don't use winches for the fore-guy or after-guy at all, just cleats.

 

[Supertramp]

That makes sense and I like the dual purpose lines.

 

[andsarkit]

I have used my whisker pole through between the forward lowers and main shrouds with just an uphaul. I'm not very happy with this as it can become a bit of a handful. The excellent suggestions above would solve this but I need to know the best way to attach 3 lines (uphaul, fore-guy, aft-guy)to the end of the pole. I only have one hole in the pole end fitting.

 

[Poignard]

How about splicing a rope grommet into the eye, or using a soft shackle?