Waterbuoy

[nicho]

Blimey, I ask a simple question, then go away for a few days, and come back to pages of arguments. At least it gave Gludy something to talk about now he's sorted out Trader!! (Sorry, just being mischievous)!!

Still think I'll get a couple - I'm paranoid about dropping car/house keys over the side.

 

[Gludy]

[ QUOTE ]
Still think I'll get a couple - I'm paranoid about dropping car/house keys over the side.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats what I call determination!!! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Observer]

It would make things tricky for a diver if, in order to surface, a buoyancy jacket had to displace a volume of water equal to the diver's weight.

 

[Gludy]

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif [ QUOTE ]
It would make things tricky for a diver if, in order to surface, a buoyancy jacket had to displace a volume of water equal to the diver's weight.

[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you. Yes thats right it would make it tricky. So is it not a good job that all the buoyancy jacket has to do is opvercome the small amount of negative buoyancy of the diver and not his weight outside water. Thanks for the example that demonstrates the truth once again.
The same goes for a submarine of course. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MapisM]

Gentlemen, may I recommend...

...to take some diving lessons, would you ever think to give that a try?

1) in order to surface, a diver has to SWIM. The bcd is meant to neutralize buoyancy, not to make it positive. In fact, it must be DEFLATED while swimming to the surface, to avoid popping up too quickly (which is dangerous!). It's inflated again only after reaching the surface.

2) in any case, yes, it should actually displace a volume of water equal to the diver's weight. BUT, you have to include the volume displaced by the diver and his gear into the equation.

Not meant to put you off, though! It's actually great fun... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Gludy]

Re: Gentlemen, may I recommend...

Mapism
I really do not know what you are going on about!
All I have stated is true - the buoyancy kacket only has to control the underwater buoyancy of the diver - not his weight outside the water. The facts you have stated about how to dive and swim do not change a thing.
[ QUOTE ]
2) in any case, yes, it should actually displace a volume of water equal to the diver's weight. BUT, you have to include the volume displaced by the diver and his gear into the equation.

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is the long way of stating that the buoyancy aid should be able to counteract the negative buoyancy of the diver - NEVER HIS OUT OF THE WATER WEIGHT.

Except on this matter you are usually fairly logical except for the off blip /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[MapisM]

Re: Gentlemen, may I recommend...

Blimey, how touchy!...
Actually, my comments were mainly addressed to Observer, though I would have bet that you also said something about the jacket meant to bring the diver to the surface.
You didn't edit your post in the meantime, did you?
Anyway. I could have been O/T a bit, but why not logical?
Though I must say that I'm happy with your ranking as "usually fairly logical".
That's well above the forum average!
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Gludy]

Re: Gentlemen, may I recommend...

Sorry if I appeared touchy ... in fact I have tekn this whole thread as some light but at times frustrating relief. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Anway - you should be satisfied with your logic rating! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[james1234]

It’s nice to see that Waterbuoy has prompted so much debate on this forum, but since some people have been (incorrectly) speculating on the science from just a few minutes of TV coverage, let me give you some facts.

1. The “demo” 1kg weight shown in the Dragons Den actually weighs 3.2Kg dry. (it’s full of coins). Waterbuoy is rated and tested to lift 1Kg of metal bar, which means, as so many of you have pointed out, that it will lift much greater weights of less dense material.

2. The waterbuoy lifting the 1kg weight on Dragons Den activated in under 10 seconds. If you watch the clip carefully you’ll see that the editors cut to the Dragons faces and stretch the time out for “dramatic effect”. Good TV, but not so good for us.

Incidentally, Waterbuoy has also been tested in salty seawater, dirty canal water, rivers and lakes in all conditions.

And just to make sure we keep the quality high, Waterbuoy is manufactured by a company which also manufactures high volume medical equipment so the quality control is second to none.

We’re confident in our claims for the Waterbouy, and there really is nothing else in the world that can do what Waterbuoy can do.


Kind regards

James (waterbuoy owner)

 

[rickp]

Thanks (and well done) for sticking your head above the parapet! Wish you luck with the product /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I look forward to Gludy's next post and 'facts' not 'opinions' /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Rick

 

[james1234]

It’s nice to see that Waterbuoy has prompted so much debate on this forum, but since some people have been (incorrectly) speculating on the science from just a few minutes of TV coverage, let me give you some facts.

1. The “demo” 1kg weight shown in the Dragons Den actually weighs 3.2Kg dry. (it’s full of coins). Waterbuoy is rated and tested to lift 1Kg of metal bar, which means, as so many of you have pointed out, that it will lift much greater weights of less dense material.

2. The waterbuoy lifting the 1kg weight on Dragons Den activated in under 10 seconds. If you watch the clip carefully you’ll see that the editors cut to the Dragons faces and stretch the time out for “dramatic effect”. Good TV, but not so good for us.

Incidentally, Waterbuoy has also been tested in salty seawater, dirty canal water, rivers and lakes in all conditions.

And just to make sure we keep the quality high, Waterbuoy is manufactured by a company which also manufactures high volume medical equipment so the quality control is second to none.

We’re confident in our claims for the Waterbouy, and there really is nothing else in the world that can do what Waterbuoy can do.


Kind regards

James (waterbuoy owner)

 

[Gludy]

First of all thank you for coming onto the forum. I think that is great as it allows a full debate.

All the science that has been pointed out here is of course correct. I hope you agree.

You had printed on the large object shown on the TV a weight of 1 KG, so it is hardly surpising that we take it as weighing one kilo! It certainly handled like a one kilo low density weight so you can hardly blame anyone for assuming the weight to be 1 kilo.

You now point out that the weight was actually 3.2 kg dry so could you please supply its dimensions of the weight used? With Waterbuoy pulling as much as 1 kg (a figure I am truly surpised at) the density of the weight you used was?

Also whilst we have the opportunity to ask questions can you please clarify are patents pending or granted and just what has been patented? I ask because as you know very similuiar devices are on the market.

[ QUOTE ]
We’re confident in our claims for the Waterbouy, and there really is nothing else in the world that can do what Waterbuoy can do.


[/ QUOTE ]

I know of no other such device with a light/battery etc. Nor do I know of any device as small as Waterbuoy with a lifting power of 1 kg. This would mean it could lift as many as 12 full size tins of mushy peas/beans to the surface!!! Can it really do that?

What is the difference and the advantage of the trigger you use compared to the trigger on the device sold in the USA?

Once again thank you for joining the forum and being so willing to answer questions

 

[thefatlady]

Well done for responding. I should have been more careful and withdraw my earlier comments.

However, your presentation was clearly misleading and will have cost you credibility with many people whom you cannot correct. I suggest that you bear this in mind.

If it does what you say it does, I wish you the best of luck. I shall await with interest your answer to Gludy.

 

[MapisM]

Re: Gentlemen, may I recommend...

[ QUOTE ]
I have tekn this whole thread as some light but at times frustrating relief.

[/ QUOTE ]I see what you mean...
...best wishes for having asap a new boat to happily cruise with, rather than to worry about!
But don't get frustrated anyway, definitely not worth it.
Oh, and I wouldn't bother a lot about the latest 'waterbuoy' posts, either.
I wish I could make some IP consistency checks on them...
...you know, someone could have missed the first point of forum rules.

 

[Gludy]

To make the best use of your response, I hope you do not mind me asking a further question.

On your own site you claim a time of up to 10 seconds- an iron bar would be in the region of 10 meteres deep in less time than that with the pressure doubling. Thus twice the pressue in the baloon would be required (half the lift). Further if the bar was speeding downwards there would be the intertia of the bar to counter due to its downward speed - this of course would be a lot, lot more than the immersed weight of the bar - so my question under what circumstances does waterbuoy lift a metal bar of 1kg? How was this tested?

If it only has a lifting power of one kilo (actually if it lifts a steel rod of 1 kilo as you say, then allowing for the buoyancy of the bar, it has a lifting power of about 850 grams- or say 425 grams at 10 metres), a fact I am surprised at, then there would not be enough lifting power to bring a steel rod of 1 kg dry weight to a stop and then lift it to the surface .... agreed?

Your observations on my points are welcome.

I think for your own sake, it is very important that customers understand the lifting capabilities of your product and this is an ideal opportunity to give those details.

I have a water testing tank in my factory designed to test the sinking speed of high density fly lines and would be more than happy to video a test on waterbuoy if you wish. if it does as you say and copes with a 1 kg metal bar dropped into water then I will be your biggest advocate.... promise /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I am not trying to trick you or catch you out - just trying to get to grips with the facts about your product. Your product will have to meet advertising standards so all this could prove helpful.

 

[james1234]

Thank you all for your responses, I see you really are very interested in trying to prove a product wrong before you even try one.

Waterbuoy was tested (over 9000 units to date have been tested) with a lead 1kg weight (the most dense object I could find) and lifted this object fine every time, However to be honest, who will want to save a lead weight. The size of the weight in the demonstration is to illustrate the fact it lifts 1kg. Before advertising such claims we made sure we were independently tested and yes we passed.

I suggest you all buy one and try for your self. Waterbuoy does have its limits, but our claims our well justified and our feedback from all our demonstration products to potential customers using items witch they would actuary lose has been great.

The “misleading” demonstration (as you wish call it) is edited, sorry but that’s out of my control (I was there for over 2.30 hours). However I feel it showed the product well doing what it does best.

The interest at waterbuoy has generated around the world is nothing short of amazing we look to close our distribution deals for the USA and Europe in the next week or so.

I hope this answers your questions and be assured there will be many more waterbuoy’s coming out lifting much greater weights, which I’m sure you will have fun trying to figure out.

Kind regards

James

 

[Gludy]

I frankly find your response, which fails to answer simple direct questions, totally unacceptable.
Why can you not answer the questions I have asked?

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you all for your responses, I see you really are very interested in trying to prove a product wrong before you even try one.


[/ QUOTE ]
Not at all. The fact is that you produced a weight that you stated was 1 kilo and even had one kilo printed on it and now claim it was 3,2 kilos - so it is totally understandable that you have caused confusion about your product.

I am not trying to prove it wrong. I have even stated that you would have my total support if you can prove it right and that is your responsibility. Its your product and you are refusing to answer simple direct questions.
[ QUOTE ]
Waterbuoy was tested (over 9000 units to date have been tested) with a lead 1kg weight (the most dense object I could find) and lifted this object fine every time, However to be honest, who will want to save a lead weight. The size of the weight in the demonstration is to illustrate the fact it lifts 1kg. Before advertising such claims we made sure we were independently tested and yes we passed.


[/ QUOTE ]
Wow - you have made 9000 prototypes! Good on you.
I asked direct questions about the testing that you refuse to answer.
I ask again how were the tests with a 1 kg metal bar conducted. Many would think from your advertising that Waterbuoy may well support a 1 kg steel bar dropped into the water, so it is a fair question and you should jump at the opportunity to answer it - its free advertising!!!
[ QUOTE ]
I suggest you all buy one and try for your self. Waterbuoy does have its limits, but our claims our well justified and our feedback from all our demonstration products to potential customers using items witch they would actuary lose has been great.


[/ QUOTE ]
What a flippin cheek you have. I ask you simple questions about your product that you refuse to answer and then you tell me to buy one and destructively test it!!!!! Again all I am asking are simple direct questions that you would have to demonstrate as independently tested to Advertising Standards so as to back up your claims and you refuse to answer!!!!!
I have been in business longer than you have lived and I can promise you that you have a lot to learn about how to market your product. Instead of treating simple direct questions based on your claims as an opportunity to explain you claim that people are trying to prove the product wrong totally missing the point - you should prove it right!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
The “misleading” demonstration (as you wish call it) is edited, sorry but that’s out of my control (I was there for over 2.30 hours). However I feel it showed the product well doing what it does best.


[/ QUOTE ]
Nonsense - you claimed it was a 1 kilo weight verbally and in a sign on the weight - you claimed that Waterbuoy triggers within ten seconds. You have repeated the claims here and I have asked simple questions based on your claims. So please do not try and hide behind the editing of the programme.
[ QUOTE ]
The interest at waterbuoy has generated around the world is nothing short of amazing we look to close our distribution deals for the USA and Europe in the next week or so.

[/ QUOTE ]
I can buy toys that keep repeating things without regard to what is being asked - you wind them up and they just go on repeating the same stuff - they too, do not answer questions.
[ QUOTE ]
I hope this answers your questions and be assured there will be many more waterbuoy’s coming out lifting much greater weights, which I’m sure you will have fun trying to figure out.

[/ QUOTE ]
So you present the physics as some sort of amazing puzzle do you? You now risk being reported to advertising standards and let me tell you - you product has to obey the laws of physics that you are so unwilling to discuss. They are not in anyway a puzzle. Only your refusal to answer questions about your own product and how it works is the puzzle.

 

[Gludy]

Just a few more points.
You claim independent testing of your products has been done to back up its claims. Who did this? Or is it to be kept secret?
You do realise that such testing has to be done by a reputable source?

Do you also realise what the law is regarding claims that you have patented a product that has not been granted a patent?

Do you realise that if you have patents you are required to print the patent numbers with the product in order to have protection?

I am not stating you do not have patents. My questions on that matter like all other questions were not answered and so I just wished to make these additional points.

 

[james1234]

Sorry Paul I seem to have hit a nerve, not intentional at all

I was not only trying to answer your question but others that have been asked too, particularly on the demonstration in the Den.

Thank you for pointing out the legal issues and I am fully aware of all illegal implications of any claims or patents I have with the product, hence the amount of effort in testing the product (this has taken over 2 years in development).

I hope this answers your question

Conditions of test (tested approximately 1 mile out at sea in Wales with various items attached including lead weight of 1kg in a variety of conditions)

Additional laboratory testing by for pressure, humidity, depth, weight, extreme simulations of seat conditions, temperature, float duration and durability (and yes a fully authorised specialist in these fields) After our 2 years in development and yes almost 9000 units we were happy with all claims

We are currently getting subsequent independent testing from a well-known university (yet to be finalised) for some future products in the Waterbuoy family.

I really hope this answers your questions but if you have anymore (not to technical or sensitive as this is a public forum) I will be happy to answer as soon as I get a chance.

I hope you all enjoy my product (the industry certainly like it). Please stay tuned to www.water-buoy.com.

Kind regards

James

 

[Gludy]

Thank you.
I really would like you to be more specific with the answers. Anyway, please let me ask one questions at a time.
If you drop a 1 kg steel rod attached to a Waterbuoy into the water it will fall rapidly until it hits the water and then accelerate, probably end on, until it reaches its terminal velocity in water.
In less than tens seconds it will have passed the 10 metre mark and require a force of many kilos to even stop it, let alone bring it to the surface. As it gets deeper the baloon will get even smaller and so reduce the drag.
Are you saying that Waterbuoy can bring to the surface a 1 kg steel bar dropped into the water from the side of a boat in water of say 300 feet deep?
This would require enourmous pulling power - way past what you demonstrated on TV and way past your claimed effective 850 grams.
Can you therefore please answer:-
1. Does waterBouy manage this task?
2. If so how and what is the actual pulling force required to submerge the baloon?