Waterbuoy

[jimg]

I think it's time you let this drop and leave the guy alone! He said:
"Conditions of test (tested approximately 1 mile out at sea in Wales with various items attached including lead weight of 1kg in a variety of conditions)"

If you were planning to sign up as a reseller and place an order for a 1000 units, then fine, go and see the guy and make sure you are happy with the tests. He has given us a fair answer and no one has to buy the product, it's time to move on.... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[nyx2k]

i agree with jimg. waterbouy are trying to deceive and you know that but they wont admit it now. no use pushing , just don't buy it

 

[nicho]

[ QUOTE ]
i agree with jimg. waterbouy are trying to deceive and you know that but they wont admit it now. no use pushing , just don't buy it

[/ QUOTE ]

I started this thread, so I think I am entitled to say that in my view it has got completely out of hand. For goodness sake, 99% of purchasers are surely going to use it to retrieve bunches of keys and other small objects dropped over the side. It seems to have been independantly tested at some depth offshore with success (though I'm sure the doubters will now suspect it was dropped onto a sandbank with 1 metre depth). The forum hounding of this guy seems totally over the top to me. It's a £12.99 bit of kit which looks as if it is going to do the job most will want it for.

I can't help but think that two serious investors will not let it onto the market if it doesn't do what it says on the packet.

Good luck to the guy

 

[Chris_d]

Sorry I'm with Paul on this, your response is typical of either a salesman who doesn't actualy understand how the thing works, or a conman /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Gludys questions shouldn't be confidential, basicaly what is the volume of the balloon and to what depth will it still inflate to lift 1kg.

Also a test site 1 mile off the Welsh coast could be anywhere, there are quite few places it might only be a metre deep for instance. Sorry you've lost my confidence.

 

[Aardee]

It's a 13 quid keyring FFS!! - Let's try to keep some sense of proportion...

 

[Gludy]

I am confident the items will work with a small bunch of keys.
I do not think it stands a chance of braking and returning to the surface a 1 kg steel bar. However many will think it does just that. If it does not they could lose whatever item they think they are protecting.

Now that may be fine with some of you - just let someone make a claim that could mislead people into losing something that they have paid £13 to protect but with me it does not sit right and I do not think the maker should be allowed to make claims and then not answer the direct questions about their own product being put to them.

None of my questions have been properly answered.
Even simple questions to explain what is different about his firing mechanism and others yet some time was spent on this matter on the TV.
On the web site claims to have the product patented in many aspects are made but not a single patent number quoted.
A test for the magazine seems to have been done involving 3 tins of beans - a typical example of how some can be misled, it should be 12 tins of beans /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

To me it all adds up to something that is worth asking questions about. I am not persecuting the maker - I am asking him to answer questions and stop avoiding such simple direct questions that can only help him if what he claims is true.

 

[Chris_d]

Yes agreed, Gludys response was certainly a bit over the top. However I just can't stand wishy washy marketing type answers. Whats wrong with giving a proper technical explanation, it then gives you complete 100% credibilty.

 

[Sundays_Child]

Whether buying 1 or 1,000pcs, Gludy's questions are pertinent. A potential customer has the right to ask questions.

It's not just a GBP13 keyring. At the lower end, it's something that is designed to insure items that may be worth fairly large sums of money. At the higher end it might be attached to something that, if lost, might endanger the life of the crew.

Simple questions have been asked, and simple answers haven't been given.

It could be a super product, but until I know more I'll be giving it a wide berth.

 

[Boardsnowboarder]

I'm out.

 

[Nick_H]

Actually your response was far more OTT, Gludy didn't call him a con-man. You should be ashamed.

 

[nyx2k]

we all know that gludys tenacity is epic.
it would appears that waterbouys marketing is a little misleading and maybe they would be better marketing this one for keys etc and several other sizes suitable for lock handles or winch handles etc.
surely gludys science is spot on(had to look on wikipedia for the explanation and sums) so it might be prudent for waterbouy to double check there sales info.

 

[Chris_d]

Ok what do you call someone who doesn't answer direct questions, but gives you an answer you didn't ask for, a politician? thats probably worse isn't it /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Actualy I originaly thought Gludy had got it a bit wrong questioning the product, until the Waterbouy chap came on here himself, now I doubt it works at all.

I'm out..

 

[james1234]

Nothing like giving someone time to respond . . I don’t seem to be able to do right from wrong with this forum, . sorry this seems to have caused some negative responses. I’m kind of wishing I never joined to be honest.

First off . . I would not, as you kindly pointed out, be able to say it lifts 1kg, if it did not lift 1kg. (That is a fact)

Yes obviously below a certain depth the pressure will become to much to be effective. This is not a cheap chemical inflator, its better described as a very been similar to the lift jacket with a compressed gas cylinder. In general conditions waterbuoy operates to over 100ft deep and greater in some circumstances as sea water is not consistent around the world. Most costal areas are not this deep and if they were Waterbuoy would save everything you would ever drop over bored which would not go past this depth in 10 seconds (activation time can be as low as 2 seconds in certain seas). We clearly state any product limitations on the packaging

This is an extreme circumstances sort of scenario you are talking about. Putting 1kg lead bar in the middle of the Atlantic which would sink as such a high speed and the sea is of such a depth then this may be a problem but I’m not sure how important a 1kg lead bar will be to you (or why you would want to by a £13 product to save it), as in the real world applications of items weighting 1kg everything would be fine. But would waterbuoy lift a 1kg lead bar from say a lake , cannel . . yes. But no we do not market it lifts a lead bar we suggest things like GPS units, Radio receivers etc which they would be more than safe in all conditions in any seas.

I’m not trying to deceive or mislead anyone it’s a good product, which has passed all the tests it needs to pass to say what it can do. I’m very proud of what we have achieved. I must also add that no other product in this field has passed anywhere near the tests we have (even for small weights) and the majority of our tests are not required we did them so our product was a quality product not some cheap gimmick, but no one seems to question that.

We have shown and tested this to all key boating distributors who are more than happy with its claims and the products performance. We have even had interest from the military so they would not accept an item, which didn’t work. So please rest assured it works and it works well.

I hope this helps.

 

[andyball]

but ultimately- you want a punter to take your word for it, or bliimmin buy one, yes? why bother with the tests if you're gonna keep 'em secret? and err refer ever so vaguely to how it works.

 

[james1234]

Sorry thought that was quite detailed

Not sure what you want ?

 

[andyball]

[ QUOTE ]
This is not a cheap chemical inflator, its better described as a very been similar to the lift jacket with a compressed gas cylinder.

[/ QUOTE ]

detailed?

 

[Gludy]

Waterbuoy
That was a long message that managed to explain nothing or answer any question.
From some of the things you say I am not even confident that you understand the simple science involved.
[ QUOTE ]
First off . . I would not, as you kindly pointed out, be able to say it lifts 1kg, if it did not lift 1kg. (That is a fact)


[/ QUOTE ]
You are the one who wrote above that it tested with a 1 kg metal bar - I have asked and asked how this test was done - will it bring to the surface a 1 kg steel bar chucked into deep water- say 300 feet? You simply fail to answer. You keep repeating something that may fool most but when examined it means nothing.

[ QUOTE ]
Yes obviously below a certain depth the pressure will become to much to be effective. This is not a cheap chemical inflator, its better described as a very been similar to the lift jacket with a compressed gas cylinder. In general conditions waterbuoy operates to over 100ft deep and greater in some circumstances as sea water is not consistent around the world.

Most costal areas are not this deep and if they were Waterbuoy would save everything you would ever drop over bored which would not go past this depth in 10 seconds (activation time can be as low as 2 seconds in certain seas). We clearly state any product limitations on the packaging


[/ QUOTE ]
That is a very confusing mix of words.
IF Waterbuoy can manage to pull 850 grams at the surface and thereby manage to lift a 1 kg steel bar from a foot or two, then it would only manage a third of that lifting power at a depth of 100 feet. That is a lifting force of about 280 grams and of course if a metal object was dropping with any velocity there would be no chance in the world of stopping the item dropping deeper.
Please explain what you mean by stating it 'operates' at to over 100 foot depth - do you mean it just triggers?
All that happens to sea water around the world is that the salinity etc changes - what factors in sea water would extend the depth as you claim? You seem to be getting into some amazing science here

[ QUOTE ]
Most costal areas are not this deep and if they were Waterbuoy would save everything you would ever drop over bored which would not go past this depth in 10 seconds (activation time can be as low as 2 seconds in certain seas). We clearly state any product limitations on the packaging


[/ QUOTE ]

I think what you are saying is that Waterbuoy would always activate within 100 foot - so lets accept that as a fact. If that was the case would you agree that activation at the depth at the most would only manage to lift a still steel object of dry weight 280 grams and could not manage anything like that if the object was descending fast?
[ QUOTE ]
This is an extreme circumstances sort of scenario you are talking about. Putting 1kg lead bar in the middle of the Atlantic which would sink as such a high speed and the sea is of such a depth then this may be a problem but I’m not sure how important a 1kg lead bar will be to you (or why you would want to by a £13 product to save it), as in the real world applications of items weighting 1kg everything would be fine. But would waterbuoy lift a 1kg lead bar from say a lake , cannel . . yes. But no we do not market it lifts a lead bar we suggest things like GPS units, Radio receivers etc which they would be more than safe in all conditions in any seas.


[/ QUOTE ]

I have not taken lead - you have, It was not me talking about this extreme it was you. In fact you mentioned lead - I did not. Seeing as you claimed a metal bar then I assumed a steel bar. You are the one who has claimed 9000 Waterbuoys were tested with lead at sea - not me.

Now let me explain some basic physics to you - forget the 100 foot - just take how deep a 1 kg bar would be when dropped into the sea after say 10 seconds- well over 33 feet but take 33 feet - at that depth the bar would be travelling at such a downward speed that it would need many times the surface pull of 850 grams that you in effect claim. The balloon size would be halved. The item would not stop and it is totally misleading to claim that Waterbuoy can manage such weights drooped into the water. Please do not even think of producing a larger Waterbuoy for lifting overboard outboard engines etc unless you really appreciate the basic physics here.

However I do detect a sensible shift in your position but it is vital that those buying Waterbuoy and using it on valuable boat equipment such as handheld VHF sets, GPS sets etc (assuming these are waterproof) can rely on Waterbuoy doing its job and frankly from what you have stated to date that assurance you give is hollow.

[ QUOTE ]
I’m not trying to deceive or mislead anyone it’s a good product, which has passed all the tests it needs to pass to say what it can do. I’m very proud of what we have achieved. I must also add that no other product in this field has passed anywhere near the tests we have (even for small weights) and the majority of our tests are not required we did them so our product was a quality product not some cheap gimmick, but no one seems to question that.


[/ QUOTE ]
Then tell us what exactly those tests were! Just stating this constant general meaningless glib marketing hype is not helping you. Explain just what the test consisted of. I frankly do not understand the last part of your paragraph.
[ QUOTE ]
We have shown and tested this to all key boating distributors who are more than happy with its claims and the products performance. We have even had interest from the military so they would not accept an item, which didn’t work. So please rest assured it works and it works well.


[/ QUOTE ]
You tested it on TV without anyone questioning it - Archimedes was turning in his grave! To a distributor this is just a small gizzmo item with limited sales - it is not an item that is going to sell anywhere in large quantities or make anyone a fortune. However for your own sake it is vital that you understand the product and explain properly how it works otherwise you are going to end up in a lot of trouble and a failed launch of what might otherwise have been a good product launched well to a long future as a boating gizzmo.
Unless you can answer the questions honestly and stop believing your own marketing hype it is pointless carrying on with this thread. Nothing is being achieved.
If you want help, I for one would be more than happy to help without any charge at all. I would rather see you succeed than fail but to succeed it is vital that you sell the product within it true working envelope and stop the BS.

 

[james1234]

sorry but we have to keep some secerates . . how it works is one of them

there is more technical and performace data on the website if you wish to know more

sorry i couldt be more help

 

[Gludy]

But you claim to have patents on how it works do you not?
Hence what secret can there be? - Its a matter of public record.
OR are your claims to hold many patents about as solid as all your other claims!!!!
I cannot see naything novel about it.
A chemical trigger - standard
The gas cylinder inflating a baloon - already exists on the market.
The light - the only one with it but not requiring any novelty to patent.

Waterbouy - please stop the BS it is totally transparant to anyone with any experience at all.

If the advanatage in how it triggers is secret then how can you possibly market the advantage? Makes no sense.

 

[nicho]

[ QUOTE ]
sorry but we have to keep some secerates . . how it works is one of them

there is more technical and performace data on the website if you wish to know more

sorry i couldt be more help

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't bother trying to "help" further either, I really don't think you will convince some on this thread.

I for one think it is perfect for my needs. I have no desire to attach it to a metal spike, or block of lead, or indeed a wooden box filled to a weight of 3.2KG filled with whatever, just to a simple set of car/house keys that are too heavy for a cork ball!!

Good luck with your product.