rickp
Active member
Agreed - what a waste of hot air....
Ric
Ric
Waterbuoy
- Thread starter nicho
- Start date
BrendanS
Well-known member
Also agree. Good luck to Waterbuoy with his product.
james1234
New member
i give up . . . you ask for tests, i tell you what tests we did and you now what what exactly each test consisted of . . are you joking ! that’s 2 years of tests!
you say I haven’t answers you question on the test of the metal bar and if it would raise past 300ft. I mentioned a envelope of 100ft so the obvious answer to this question is no. we tested a metal bar (actuary a small solid block of lead but metal bar was just easier to illustrate) in a testing tank and in a harbour (both worked fine)
no idea what your going on about with 850g . . and yes there is a working envelope and yes it is on our packaging and on our site. yes the product has to stop the weight from falling and if it does not do so in the time it takes to reach the out side of the envelope then no it wont return.
I have tried to be as helpful as I can but seemingly not good enough . . sorry
So will it lift the things we state . . GPS, fishing tackle, keys . . yes
That’s what waterbuoy does and it does it well. If you don’t trust it with your metal bar . . then don’t use one on it.
as for the Trigger . . . yes its on public record so if you need more information have a look
you say I haven’t answers you question on the test of the metal bar and if it would raise past 300ft. I mentioned a envelope of 100ft so the obvious answer to this question is no. we tested a metal bar (actuary a small solid block of lead but metal bar was just easier to illustrate) in a testing tank and in a harbour (both worked fine)
no idea what your going on about with 850g . . and yes there is a working envelope and yes it is on our packaging and on our site. yes the product has to stop the weight from falling and if it does not do so in the time it takes to reach the out side of the envelope then no it wont return.
I have tried to be as helpful as I can but seemingly not good enough . . sorry
So will it lift the things we state . . GPS, fishing tackle, keys . . yes
That’s what waterbuoy does and it does it well. If you don’t trust it with your metal bar . . then don’t use one on it.
as for the Trigger . . . yes its on public record so if you need more information have a look
Gludy
Active member
I am just about to give up on you with this but cannot let you get away with some of thjose comments and distortions.
1. You have not told us what tests you did. Just that you did tests.
2. You originally state 9000 tests on a 1 kg lead weight in open sea now you state
"we tested a metal bar (actuary a small solid block of lead but metal bar was just easier to illustrate) in a testing tank and in a harbour (both worked fine)"
So are you saying that you only tested this in shallow water or aquiriums?
Surely you can see understand my concern about a 1 kg weight in even 1000 foot of water?
3. "no idea what your going on about with 850g . . and yes there is a working envelope and yes it is on our packaging and on our site. yes the product has to stop the weight from falling and if it does not do so in the time it takes to reach the out side of the envelope then no it wont return. "
You calied it could lift a metal bar of 1 kg so I took that as the SG os steel - after allowing for the 150 cc displcment value of the steel this meant you were claiming a lifting power of 1 kilo less 150 grams = 850 grams
OK - what is the working envelope explained on the packaging then? I cannot see it on your site - just claims of 1 kg full stop.
Of course 1 i kg steel obkect would never return because of the speed it was travelling down at when the trigger went, the reduced pressure etc?
Again what is this envelope that you claim on the packaging and site?
4.
"So will it lift the things we state . . GPS, fishing tackle, keys . . yes"
Not really - it depends on the density and weight.
5. "That’s what waterbuoy does and it does it well. If you don’t trust it with your metal bar . . then don’t use one on it."
Then please do not claim the 9000 test using 1 kg of lead - stop claiming things you cannot back up.
6. "as for the Trigger . . . yes its on public record so if you need more information have a look "
Great please give me the patent numbers and I will look it up. I am fascintated.
1. You have not told us what tests you did. Just that you did tests.
2. You originally state 9000 tests on a 1 kg lead weight in open sea now you state
"we tested a metal bar (actuary a small solid block of lead but metal bar was just easier to illustrate) in a testing tank and in a harbour (both worked fine)"
So are you saying that you only tested this in shallow water or aquiriums?
Surely you can see understand my concern about a 1 kg weight in even 1000 foot of water?
3. "no idea what your going on about with 850g . . and yes there is a working envelope and yes it is on our packaging and on our site. yes the product has to stop the weight from falling and if it does not do so in the time it takes to reach the out side of the envelope then no it wont return. "
You calied it could lift a metal bar of 1 kg so I took that as the SG os steel - after allowing for the 150 cc displcment value of the steel this meant you were claiming a lifting power of 1 kilo less 150 grams = 850 grams
OK - what is the working envelope explained on the packaging then? I cannot see it on your site - just claims of 1 kg full stop.
Of course 1 i kg steel obkect would never return because of the speed it was travelling down at when the trigger went, the reduced pressure etc?
Again what is this envelope that you claim on the packaging and site?
4.
"So will it lift the things we state . . GPS, fishing tackle, keys . . yes"
Not really - it depends on the density and weight.
5. "That’s what waterbuoy does and it does it well. If you don’t trust it with your metal bar . . then don’t use one on it."
Then please do not claim the 9000 test using 1 kg of lead - stop claiming things you cannot back up.
6. "as for the Trigger . . . yes its on public record so if you need more information have a look "
Great please give me the patent numbers and I will look it up. I am fascintated.
james1234
New member
sorry its late and it bee a long day at work
this was posted earlier
Additional laboratory testing by for pressure, humidity, depth, weight, extreme simulations of seat conditions, temperature, float duration and durability (and yes a fully authorised specialist in these fields) After our 2 years in development and yes almost 9000 units we were happy with all claims
so thats the tests . . you want all those results ?????????
no 9000 tests total . . and yes some were done in open water but admitably near shaw . . but yes they worked on the metal bar (lead weight). our box weighting 3.2 kg worked fine on open water
yes it depends on water displacement and weight but we couldnt find any that weighed over 1kg
unfortunaly i can back up all our tests for recovering 1kg . . sorry
i really cant rember it of my head but a few searchs and you should find all of them (there are a few)
i think we may have to agree to disagree, we can recover items up to 1kg . . the only way to prove to you would be to show you . . . and not even lifting 3.2kg shows you . . . i know water displacement but after all it is over 1kg of dry wieght we are lifting you can not argue with that fact. so yes we can lift that no problem
sorry its late and i totaly give up . .
i'm out
this was posted earlier
Additional laboratory testing by for pressure, humidity, depth, weight, extreme simulations of seat conditions, temperature, float duration and durability (and yes a fully authorised specialist in these fields) After our 2 years in development and yes almost 9000 units we were happy with all claims
so thats the tests . . you want all those results ?????????
no 9000 tests total . . and yes some were done in open water but admitably near shaw . . but yes they worked on the metal bar (lead weight). our box weighting 3.2 kg worked fine on open water
yes it depends on water displacement and weight but we couldnt find any that weighed over 1kg
unfortunaly i can back up all our tests for recovering 1kg . . sorry
i really cant rember it of my head but a few searchs and you should find all of them (there are a few)
i think we may have to agree to disagree, we can recover items up to 1kg . . the only way to prove to you would be to show you . . . and not even lifting 3.2kg shows you . . . i know water displacement but after all it is over 1kg of dry wieght we are lifting you can not argue with that fact. so yes we can lift that no problem
sorry its late and i totaly give up . .
i'm out
Gludy
Active member
I am sorry but you simply do not answer any questions at all.
I give up.
It is pointless carrying on trying to have a rational conversation with you.
You have not answered one single question directly and choose to make abusrd claims using jargon that I do not think you understand as some sort of smoke screen.
You ask us to check things then do not provide the means to check them.
You claim you have a lot of patents but will not provide a patent number.
You claim there is an 'envelope' on your site but cannot point to it or detail it here.
You cannot properly descibe one test condition.
I give up. I am sure many will be happy when I state as far as I am concerned my contribution to this thread is over.
I give up.
It is pointless carrying on trying to have a rational conversation with you.
You have not answered one single question directly and choose to make abusrd claims using jargon that I do not think you understand as some sort of smoke screen.
You ask us to check things then do not provide the means to check them.
You claim you have a lot of patents but will not provide a patent number.
You claim there is an 'envelope' on your site but cannot point to it or detail it here.
You cannot properly descibe one test condition.
I give up. I am sure many will be happy when I state as far as I am concerned my contribution to this thread is over.
BrendanS
Well-known member
Do you really give up? Please state that you have really given up. Have you really given up and you will stand by that. Please state here and now, that you have really given up?
ChartScrubba
New member
[ QUOTE ]
I give up. I am sure many will be happy when I state as far as I am concerned my contribution to this thread is over.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is that a promise. You really must be a nightmare to deal with! First it was Trader and Tarquin, next it was Marlow - you pissed them off, now it's a £13 key floatation device that on having dropped my car keys in the briney I would consider buying.
The words annal and throwing the caber spring to mind. Get a life! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I wish the guy every success /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I give up. I am sure many will be happy when I state as far as I am concerned my contribution to this thread is over.
[/ QUOTE ]
Is that a promise. You really must be a nightmare to deal with! First it was Trader and Tarquin, next it was Marlow - you pissed them off, now it's a £13 key floatation device that on having dropped my car keys in the briney I would consider buying.
The words annal and throwing the caber spring to mind. Get a life! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I wish the guy every success /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
MapisM
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
Please state here and now, that you have really given up?
[/ QUOTE ]Surprised to see such request from you Brendan.
I'm sure you know that's a catch 22 style paradox.
If he confirms, you can object that he's actually not giving up 'cause he's replying, and if he doesn't reply you can still assume that he hasn't really given up 'cause he doesn't confirm...
Please state here and now, that you have really given up?
[/ QUOTE ]Surprised to see such request from you Brendan.
I'm sure you know that's a catch 22 style paradox.
If he confirms, you can object that he's actually not giving up 'cause he's replying, and if he doesn't reply you can still assume that he hasn't really given up 'cause he doesn't confirm...
Sundays_Child
New member
AWW!!!
This thread was so entertaining!
I wish Water Buoy all the best. No doubt it'll be a great product for keys.
At the same time, I can see Gludy's frustration. In trying to clarify the true performance envelopes of the product, he's offered free advice and free assistance. I apply for patents all the time, and, in the course of work, if I'm asked for a patent number I give it, as I do performance specifics. Without them I wouldn't get orders!
It's commendable that the inventor has spent time on this thread. But the very nature of these forums means that specific real-life questions will be asked, and specific answers will be expected.
I would love to attach a Water Buoy to my GBP800 waterproof binoculars. Unfortunately I can't because of the lack of specific answers doesn't give me the confidence to do so. Same with my waterproof camera. It's not practical or reasonable to expect a consumer to do tests themselves.
So, I'll be buying one (for keys) instead of three, for now.
This thread was so entertaining!
I wish Water Buoy all the best. No doubt it'll be a great product for keys.
At the same time, I can see Gludy's frustration. In trying to clarify the true performance envelopes of the product, he's offered free advice and free assistance. I apply for patents all the time, and, in the course of work, if I'm asked for a patent number I give it, as I do performance specifics. Without them I wouldn't get orders!
It's commendable that the inventor has spent time on this thread. But the very nature of these forums means that specific real-life questions will be asked, and specific answers will be expected.
I would love to attach a Water Buoy to my GBP800 waterproof binoculars. Unfortunately I can't because of the lack of specific answers doesn't give me the confidence to do so. Same with my waterproof camera. It's not practical or reasonable to expect a consumer to do tests themselves.
So, I'll be buying one (for keys) instead of three, for now.
MapisM
Well-known member
Breaking news - breakthrough product announcement
[ QUOTE ]
So, I'll be buying one (for keys) instead of three, for now.
[/ QUOTE ]Don't.
This thread was not just entertaining, it gave me a brilliant business idea.
I'm working on a device which I will confidently guarantee to work:
1) in any kind of water, depth and bottom (!);
2) regardless of the object weight, size and displacement (!!!);
3) immediately - no delay whatsoever;
And most importantly - believe it or not - a single device will work for ANY object onboard.
Estimated cost is in the same range of waterbuoy - maybe even less.
Stay tuned!
[ QUOTE ]
So, I'll be buying one (for keys) instead of three, for now.
[/ QUOTE ]Don't.
This thread was not just entertaining, it gave me a brilliant business idea.
I'm working on a device which I will confidently guarantee to work:
1) in any kind of water, depth and bottom (!);
2) regardless of the object weight, size and displacement (!!!);
3) immediately - no delay whatsoever;
And most importantly - believe it or not - a single device will work for ANY object onboard.
Estimated cost is in the same range of waterbuoy - maybe even less.
Stay tuned!
Sundays_Child
New member
Re: Breaking news - breakthrough product announcement
A rope? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
A rope? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Aardee
Well-known member
I feel the need to say it again.
IT'S A FRICKIN THIRTEEN QUID KEYRING!!!
"Performance envelopes" indeed...It's not a blimmin' car/ boat/ helicopter/ spaceship.
I just don't see what the fuss is about. Maybe it's because we had girls at our school /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Edit: Sorry SC, not aimed at you.
IT'S A FRICKIN THIRTEEN QUID KEYRING!!!
"Performance envelopes" indeed...It's not a blimmin' car/ boat/ helicopter/ spaceship.
I just don't see what the fuss is about. Maybe it's because we had girls at our school /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Edit: Sorry SC, not aimed at you.
nyx2k
New member
could anyone keep this thread for a later date. then if an object within the performance parameters does not lift when used with a waterbouy then you should be able to use this thread as evidence in a small claims hearing against waterbouy.
it seems like another company have got a little carried away with their advertising blurb but its hardly worth getting stressed about.
it seems like another company have got a little carried away with their advertising blurb but its hardly worth getting stressed about.
Hurricane
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
I feel the need to say it again.
IT'S A FRICKIN THIRTEEN QUID KEYRING!!!
"Performance envelopes" indeed...It's not a blimmin' car/ boat/ helicopter/ spaceship.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a serious side to this.
A bit like the cost of a hard drive is nothing - its whats in it.
In this case it's not the fact that it might not lift your keys (actually, I believe it is great for this) but if it didnt, it would cause loads of grief with lost keys. OK if you didnt have one you'd have lost them anyway but by buying a device like this, you are under an impression that you are safe. So however small or cheap the device is, the test results and an appraisal should be available.
I feel the need to say it again.
IT'S A FRICKIN THIRTEEN QUID KEYRING!!!
"Performance envelopes" indeed...It's not a blimmin' car/ boat/ helicopter/ spaceship.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is a serious side to this.
A bit like the cost of a hard drive is nothing - its whats in it.
In this case it's not the fact that it might not lift your keys (actually, I believe it is great for this) but if it didnt, it would cause loads of grief with lost keys. OK if you didnt have one you'd have lost them anyway but by buying a device like this, you are under an impression that you are safe. So however small or cheap the device is, the test results and an appraisal should be available.
Bav34
...
I'm disappointed.
Because I own an AWB ..... and we ALL know that the keels are only held on by chewing gum ..... I was planning to buy a large number of these Waterbuoys which I would have attached to the guardrails to keep the boat afloat when the wind peaked at F3 and the catastrophic failure happened.
I had got as far as looking up the weight of my boat LESS the keel but full of water which according to Archie Medies made it weigh the same as 3 tins of beans ... or is it 10?
THEN I remembered that I have to allow for the weight of having the necessary Waterbuoys on board!
Then I realised that the more that I carried, the more I HAD to carry to support the weight of the ones that I was carrying to support the weight of the ones that I was carrying to support the weight....... /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
I wish the guy luck but REALLY do understand some of the frustration re the vagueness of the answers.
Because I own an AWB ..... and we ALL know that the keels are only held on by chewing gum ..... I was planning to buy a large number of these Waterbuoys which I would have attached to the guardrails to keep the boat afloat when the wind peaked at F3 and the catastrophic failure happened.
I had got as far as looking up the weight of my boat LESS the keel but full of water which according to Archie Medies made it weigh the same as 3 tins of beans ... or is it 10?
THEN I remembered that I have to allow for the weight of having the necessary Waterbuoys on board!
Then I realised that the more that I carried, the more I HAD to carry to support the weight of the ones that I was carrying to support the weight of the ones that I was carrying to support the weight....... /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
I wish the guy luck but REALLY do understand some of the frustration re the vagueness of the answers.
cliffb
Member
I'm with you Bav34.
The guy is just too vague with the specifics. The questions were simple enough. If he had only given some patent numbers... or the names of the testing agencies... or something that could be verified, it would have given some credence to his claims. Even his financial claims were a bit suspect.
As it is, I reckon it will probably bring up a set of keys... but I wouldn't risk a GPS, a pair of Bins or a H/H VHF. And I'm certainly not going to try it out with my own!!!
Maybe this is a perfect project for a future PBO/YM Test????
The guy is just too vague with the specifics. The questions were simple enough. If he had only given some patent numbers... or the names of the testing agencies... or something that could be verified, it would have given some credence to his claims. Even his financial claims were a bit suspect.
As it is, I reckon it will probably bring up a set of keys... but I wouldn't risk a GPS, a pair of Bins or a H/H VHF. And I'm certainly not going to try it out with my own!!!
Maybe this is a perfect project for a future PBO/YM Test????
Gludy
Active member
ChartScrubba
I am responding directly to you and your insulting post.
[ QUOTE ]
Is that a promise. You really must be a nightmare to deal with! First it was Trader and Tarquin, next it was Marlow - you pissed them off, now it's a £13 key floatation device that on having dropped my car keys in the briney I would consider buying.
[/ QUOTE ]
You seem to think that I should put up with a £1m boat that was falling apart and that somehow it was wrong for me to complain and fight to get my money back. That somehow this in your convoluted world is wrong! Well on that one the best of luck if you ever have such a problem after spending a lot of dosh ..... you advocate putting up with it. That, in my world is stupid but in your world is OK because to complain about transoms wrongly attached engines not being connected to the boat, keels collapsing is wrong!!!!!!!
As regards Marlow, I like Marlow boats and have never stated a negative word anywhere about them. I have run into a straight contractual matter with the dealer which I am my lawyers believe is a simple black and white issue and I am using the law to correct the matter. Many on here know how that dealer behaved at SIBS. I am not using publicity, TV. Magazines or anything else as the matter is a very simple matter of contract best dealt with by the Courts.
As regards this device, I have simply tried to find out the truth. In doing that I stayed polite throughout my attempts. I live in a world were I care enough to stop someone attaching a heavy device to one of these things in the believe that it would bring it to the surface. It is not the cost of the device that is material it’s the loss of what is on the end of it. To only use the device for keys would be a bit silly when such balloon devices exist at less then a quarter of the price that would do a fine job with the average bunch of keys and other devices equally as small exists that deploy a string that pops to the top enabling you to lift up heavier loads.
I have actually seen magazines publish totally misleading test results on products because they did not understand the simple physics. It caused a lot of confusion. I hope this thread has at least stopped that.
Now scurry back to your little world where you seem to believe and accept the consequences of whatever nonsense anyone wants to chuck at you – whatever you do – never question what you are told!!!! This cosy world of yours also allows you to snipe away at anyone else who dares to challenge bad service or misleading information. That I suppose makes you feel safer.
I am responding directly to you and your insulting post.
[ QUOTE ]
Is that a promise. You really must be a nightmare to deal with! First it was Trader and Tarquin, next it was Marlow - you pissed them off, now it's a £13 key floatation device that on having dropped my car keys in the briney I would consider buying.
[/ QUOTE ]
You seem to think that I should put up with a £1m boat that was falling apart and that somehow it was wrong for me to complain and fight to get my money back. That somehow this in your convoluted world is wrong! Well on that one the best of luck if you ever have such a problem after spending a lot of dosh ..... you advocate putting up with it. That, in my world is stupid but in your world is OK because to complain about transoms wrongly attached engines not being connected to the boat, keels collapsing is wrong!!!!!!!
As regards Marlow, I like Marlow boats and have never stated a negative word anywhere about them. I have run into a straight contractual matter with the dealer which I am my lawyers believe is a simple black and white issue and I am using the law to correct the matter. Many on here know how that dealer behaved at SIBS. I am not using publicity, TV. Magazines or anything else as the matter is a very simple matter of contract best dealt with by the Courts.
As regards this device, I have simply tried to find out the truth. In doing that I stayed polite throughout my attempts. I live in a world were I care enough to stop someone attaching a heavy device to one of these things in the believe that it would bring it to the surface. It is not the cost of the device that is material it’s the loss of what is on the end of it. To only use the device for keys would be a bit silly when such balloon devices exist at less then a quarter of the price that would do a fine job with the average bunch of keys and other devices equally as small exists that deploy a string that pops to the top enabling you to lift up heavier loads.
I have actually seen magazines publish totally misleading test results on products because they did not understand the simple physics. It caused a lot of confusion. I hope this thread has at least stopped that.
Now scurry back to your little world where you seem to believe and accept the consequences of whatever nonsense anyone wants to chuck at you – whatever you do – never question what you are told!!!! This cosy world of yours also allows you to snipe away at anyone else who dares to challenge bad service or misleading information. That I suppose makes you feel safer.
Aardee
Well-known member
Fundamentally, I don't disagree with you. But you must admit the level of "anal retentiveness" displayed by some is just a tad out of proportion.
If the potential loss is that great, either have a spare or DON'T DROP IT!!
If the potential loss is that great, either have a spare or DON'T DROP IT!!
nicho
Well-known member
[ QUOTE ]
Do you really give up? Please state that you have really given up. Have you really given up and you will stand by that. Please state here and now, that you have really given up?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, please do, 'cos I'm losing the will to live here!!
Do you really give up? Please state that you have really given up. Have you really given up and you will stand by that. Please state here and now, that you have really given up?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, please do, 'cos I'm losing the will to live here!!