Waterbuoy

[rickp]

[ QUOTE ]
So please do not try and misquote me - just accept the simple science, its your failure to do this that surprises me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I accept the science Paul. I've said so in just about every post on this thread. This is why these "old-style Gludy" threads get so long - because you don't read whats written, and ignore anything that disagrees with your view point.

Rick

 

[Gludy]

Thank you Rupert. You are right.

All I am saying is really very simple.

1. I do not believe that Waterbuoy can bring to the surface a i kg steel weight dropped into a 100 foot of water for reasons already explained It may also fail with dry weights of steel much less than that.

2. The maker refused to supply any information or answer any questions that could allow a proper calculation of its properties.

3. I think the 1 kg weight on TV was a 1 kg weight. It cerainly had a fair amount of buoyancy when handled.

4. I beleive that people who claim patents but fail to supply a patent number have something to hide.


OK some of you do not accept the basic physics - the very same physics that support your boats. That up to you.

 

[Aardee]

With tongue firmly in cheek:

1) Why would you want to "rescue" 1kg of steel

2) Maybe he's realised we're actually a comparatively small number of potential customers (and chuffing difficult ones, at that) who could happily take up loads of his time and generate, what, £100?? - Where I come from (and yes, I do work in sales) it's called "qualification"

3) So it DID lift 1kg (I'm a salesman, remember...)

4) See 2)

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MapisM]

Re: Breaking news - breakthrough product announcement

That's a neat idea, but very impractical.
The device I'm working on requires no deployment, no maintenance, nothing.
Once properly installed on the boat, it'll work forever and with each and every sinkable object, either spread around the boat or brought onboard by anybody.

I told you gentlemen, it'll be a breakthrough, just gimme some time.
You will be surprised by how straightforward and effective the final solution will be!
The first prototype is already almost completed, but I hope you'll understand my concern in publishing further details, 'cause it wouldn't be so difficult to steal the idea, hence there are a few legal things I must check first.

Watch this space!

 

[RupertW]

I do think though that they probably have tested a lead 1kg weight and I wouldn't be surprised if Waterbouy met that challenge successfully and would therefore also be successful with a steel 1kg bar.

However I'd surmise that these were "pop up" tests where the weight is dropped into shallowish water, hit the bottom then got refloated when the balloon was fully inflated. Maybe 15ft deep maybe 30ft but we don't know because no test was ever described in anything but the vaguest terms.

I'd love to see some of the forumites navigating with echo sounders which were calibrated in "miles out from somewhere on the Welsh coast".

Re. patents - that is so dodgy sounding. I've read their site and I keep coming across phrases like "refining technology" that make me think that they may be licenced to use patents that are also used in other products but have none of their own. All seems very carefully worded to imply new patents but never state what they are, let alone giving details.

 

[Gludy]

"1) Why would you want to "rescue" 1kg of steel"

There are many objects you may be tempted to use it on that require the same 850 grams of lifting power that 1 kg of steel does. The steel is just a calibration point - all that is required to know is the spring balance load required to submerge the baloon at the surface.

"2) Maybe he's realised we're actually a comparatively small number of potential customers (and chuffing difficult ones, at that) who could happily take up loads of his time and generate, what, £100?? - Where I come from (and yes, I do work in sales) it's called "qualification""
Then I would suggest that attitude it toally lacking in marketing skills. This small number of people managed to get me a £1m refund at an estimated cost of £1om to my supplier before a deal was reached.

"3) So it DID lift 1kg (I'm a salesman, remember...)"

Nope - it was seen to lift a weight of unknown desnity therefore unkown load on a TV showe with print of 1 kg on it.
/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Aardee]

1) Yes, I am being facetious

WRT your response to point 2, I respectfully point out that a £12.99 sale is a damn sight different to £1m sale in terms of time spent on each individual customer (or "cost of sale" in rep-speak) and getting a refund on a £1m boat is also very different to marketing/ selling a low-cost, high-volume item.

With the possible exception of yourself, very few Waterbuoy customers will invest much time in extensive research - for the majority it will be an at-the-till impulse buy "Oooh look love, it's that doodah off the telly".

Your science is, of course, completely correct. Your expectation of Mr Waterbuoy's attention span is, however, completely out of kilter. Do we seriously expect him to fully discuss his complete test plan with every prospective buyer??

Now, were you a prospective trade distributor, I'm sure he would be far more attentive.

 

[KevB]

So when you fill your car tyres with air do you sink your car and work out how much pressure you need to inflate them to or do you do it in the garage and inflate to atmospheric pressure?

I imagine everyone will assume that if something is advertised to lift a 1kg weight, the 1kg is at atmospheric pressure.

1kg lead weight plus 500g for waterbuoy (guessing - probably much less or you wouldn't want it on your keyring)

= 1.5kg

1kg lead = 88cm/3

less the weight of the water it's displaced

88 grams

In water weight of lead = 922 grams

waterbuoy = 3cm x 3cm x 3 cm (guessing) 27cm/3?

Less the weight of the water it's displaced

27 grams

In water weight of waterbuoy = 473

Meaning we have a full in water weight of 1.395 kg

The balloon needs to displace 1.4 litres of water to make it float.

Now I don't know if there is enough pressure in the waterbuoy cylinder to inflate a balloon enough to displace 1.4 litres of water at 10 meters, twice atmospheric pressure?
I guess the easy way is to let off a waterbuoy in the comfort of your own home and measure the balloon size. If it's 2.8 litres (just over half the size of a petrol can, not much is it!!) or more then it WILL lift 1kg (ATM) of lead from 10 meters under water.

 

[lovezoo]

Can I suggest we all club together and buy one of these things, then one of us can attach a 1Kg lead weight to it and chuck it over the side of their boat in at least 100ft of water? If the lead weight comes back up Waterbuoy is right, if it doesn't Gludy is right. End of argument.

 

[RupertW]

[ QUOTE ]
So when you fill your car tyres with air do you sink your car and work out how much pressure you need to inflate them to or do you do it in the garage and inflate to atmospheric pressure?


[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure what kind of car you have but I'd call tyres at atmospheric pressure pretty flat.

[ QUOTE ]

I imagine everyone will assume that if something is advertised to lift a 1kg weight, the 1kg is at atmospheric pressure.


[/ QUOTE ]
The air pressure is nearly irrelevant so I'm not sure what you are saying here. If you are still talking about weight "out of the water", then you still seem to be thinking that a balloon filled with 1kg of water will require the same lifting force as a 1kg of lead.

However the rest of your message shows that you understand the calculations at least as well as I do, so I really really don't know what you mean by your statement above. I don't disagree with anything you say later on and I'm pleased that you do acknowledge that Mr Waterbuoy's vagueness means that you (and everbody else) don't know what the balloon size and therefore lifting power is.

Will it do keys, will it be fine in a marina for heavier things - probably -but we won't have a clue until enough of us have dropped things attached to it and compared notes - or done destructive tests for the cheap price of 12 quid just to find out.

 

[Gludy]

Yes- great idea and i will even pay for it!!!

 

[jimg]

Steady on boy! If you do that this thread might have to end.... /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Gludy]

Keve
Ltres accept your calculations which are fine with me - its your conclusions that I adisgree with.

1. In order to drag the weight up to the surface you would need postive buoyancy so you would need more than 1.4 litres - you may need as much as say 1.6 litres to overcome drag.

2. Further, and this is critical the lead would be travelling downwards at high speed and so the amount of force required to stop that downward velocity and stop it would be many times the 1 kg pull and whilst it is still dropping waterbouy would be under higher and higher pressure with less and less buoyancy

Waterbuoy claims the absurd figure of 9000 prototypes tested with a 1 kg lead weight.

You know all it needed was some direct answers to the forum, not just to me. from Waterbuoy and we could calculate the whole thing.

I beleive that the weight on the TV was 1 kg but if it was not and had a negative buoyancy of 1 kg waterbuoy only just managed it under a few centimetres of water. There is no way it would manage it with real depth there.

 

[Gludy]

OK lets have some fun.

I will pay for someone to purchase a waterbuoy - attach a 1 kg lump of lead to it and chuck it overboard in at least 33 metres of water. A video could be made of it and published here. I will even do the video but will not touch the waterbuoy or lead. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

If the mag can arrange this it would be fun and Waterbuoy who have managed this 9000 times without a hitch would have some great publicity.

If it comes to the top I will apologise on video to Waterbuoy.

If its does not ..... I will just smile.

So is there any chance that Waterbuoy would submit a sample for this test to a forum member other than myself - i will pay them the full RRP for it!!

What do you think will happen:-

 

[MapisM]

Good idea, BUT!

[ QUOTE ]
If the lead weight comes back up Waterbuoy is right, if it doesn't Gludy is right.

[/ QUOTE ]That would be a pointless test anyway.
Even if WB would be proven right, there's no chance his device would work i.e. with an outboard - in fact he doesn't claim anything like that.
So, why bother with a lead weight when a new revolutionary device, guranteed to be effective also with an outboard, will soon be available?

 

[Meem513]

[ QUOTE ]


FAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRK... what a thread. Can someone please inject some humour?

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this vid to be rather humorous (hope nobody was hurt).

Mea /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Gludy]

I enjoyed those videos ..... seems to me they prove that some humans will never understand the physics! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Gludy]

Re: Good idea, BUT!

Mapism
Are shares available in this breakthrough anti-matter device of yours? /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[nicho]

Re: Good idea, BUT!

Surely this can make 200 now??

 

[nicho]

Re: Good idea, BUT!

Surely it will!