VAT status post Brexit.

[Mistroma]

The "no deal" terminology is a negotiating soundbite at best, prol food at worst.

In the event there is no deal by Brexit Day, and no extension, then negotiations will cease. This will be immediately met by a raft of emergency measures, followed by more negotiations. Nobody in Whitehall or the European Commission would seriously deny that.

And out of the fog will come a deal, or a series of mini-deals. It is utterly pointless to speculate ex ante what these may be.

You misunderstand my stance, I'm using no deal as shorthand for "no idea what the situation will be at any point in the future but it might be somewhere between little change and the worst outcome for a third party country with no reciprocal agreements".

I don't see it as speculating, more risk assessment. I will study options if I see a risk with high impact and low or unknown probability. Reducing the risk at cost of 2 stamps requires little thought, hence T2L comments.

The 90 day rule is a much more difficult risk to manage. I was simply pointing out that leaving UK for a couple of days would not work if it does happen. Not much speculation there, that is how it works and isn't like resetting the clock on temporary importation.

Of course it might not be an issue and 90 day limit won't apply. However, it is a risk and has reasonable probability of being a big problem for me. I am therefore managing the risk by preparing to obtain an Irish passport. I'll balance the risk and cost with other possible advantages before spending any money.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Vic, it's a much bigger deal for me as it is a rolling 180 day window and all visits are totalled. Off to visit a friend in Sweden and travel around for a couple of weeks before returning to the boat. We also have relatives in France and could visit them in other years. This time comes out of 90 days allowed in Europe if UK was a third country without any deal.

Time in Sweden or France won't count this year as it is pre-Brexit. Next year I could be left with 60 days to go sailing in summer. I can't reset the clock as it is a total within a rolling 180 day window. I'd need to visit Turkey or return to UK for at least a couple of months. It has a big effect as little point in flying back to Greece to sail in October.

Yes Mike for people as your self it going to be a much bigger problem .
I did read somewhere tho that the 90 day rule in some cases apply in any one EU country and as long as you entered another EU country it all start again ,
Someone correct me please if I got that wrong .
But Mike as Tony Cross said somewhere , do you really think with the amount of brits boat in europe and money involved that they not going to sort something out . Add the people who now have two homes , we talking a heck of a lot of dosh .

 

[sailaboutvic]

@tony Cross
You may be interested in this , has it apply to you

https://eu.greekreporter.com/2019/0...-of-britons-rights-in-case-of-no-deal-brexit/

 

[Joker]

Greece might be happy with that; how about France or Germany?

 

[Resolution]

Greece might be happy with that; how about France or Germany?

Is this the Greek government anticipating another financial crisis and their being booted out of the EU?

 

[chrishscorp]

Yes Mike for people as your self it going to be a much bigger problem .
I did read somewhere tho that the 90 day rule in some cases apply in any one EU country and as long as you entered another EU country it all start again ,
Someone correct me please if I got that wrong .
But Mike as Tony Cross said somewhere , do you really think with the amount of brits boat in europe and money involved that they not going to sort something out . Add the people who now have two homes , we talking a heck of a lot of dosh .

No Vic, the 90 day limit in the rolling 180 day rule covers the whole Schengen area. It starts the day you arrive then stops when you 'clock out' of the Schengen area. So you could do 90 days in the Schengen area then visit a non Schengen EU state but you would then need to fly out of that or another non schengen area back to the UK. If you overstay.... a couple of days no one sems to mind but if it was several weeks or a month you risk having illegal overstayer stamped in your passport and then refused entry back into Europe. This was a sumary of the situation for an American tourist who sat down and looked in depth as to how he can bend the rules. So as a third country this is what we are likely to have, especially as the UK is looking to end free movement.

The Greek article is interesting and encouraging, but that is going to apply to those who are residents presumably with property and Tax numbers etc.

 

[sailaboutvic]

No Vic, the 90 day limit in the rolling 180 day rule covers the whole Schengen area. It starts the day you arrive then stops when you 'clock out' of the Schengen area. So you could do 90 days in the Schengen area then visit a non Schengen EU state but you would then need to fly out of that or another non schengen area back to the UK. If you overstay.... a couple of days no one sems to mind but if it was several weeks or a month you risk having illegal overstayer stamped in your passport and then refused entry back into Europe. This was a sumary of the situation for an American tourist who sat down and looked in depth as to how he can bend the rules. So as a third country this is what we are likely to have, especially as the UK is looking to end free movement.

The Greek article is interesting and encouraging, but that is going to apply to those who are residents presumably with property and Tax numbers etc.

Hi
Thanks for correcting me , the way you explained it is the way I thought it was , but and don't ask me where , I read somewhere that it worked as I posted, more then likely it was on some kind of forum , and as we all know , you can't believe everything you read in forums

The Greek article was manly for Tony Cross as he is a full timer in Greece and to a few others that I know personally here who live full time on aboard in Greece , not much good for the rest of us agree .

 

[Neil_Y]

The rules with vehicle currently mean you are not permitted to use a vehicle that is not registered in your country of residency.

My Swedish partner drove over to UK in her (Swedish) volvo still on Swedish registration and plates and I as a UK resident was not permitted to drive it in the UK. It's fine for me to drive it in Sweden though. I have a British trailer in Sweden with my boat on it, we don't need to register trailers so it has my cars plates on it. WTF happens after Brexit to that?

 

[sailaboutvic]

The rules with vehicle currently mean you are not permitted to use a vehicle that is not registered in your country of residency.

My Swedish partner drove over to UK in her (Swedish) volvo still on Swedish registration and plates and I as a UK resident was not permitted to drive it in the UK. It's fine for me to drive it in Sweden though. I have a British trailer in Sweden with my boat on it, we don't need to register trailers so it has my cars plates on it. WTF happens after Brexit to that?

Funny that's got me thinking , in years gone by I have driven my Dutch partner car in the UK when we took it over for some weeks , now in Holland the rules are , it's the car that's insurance not the driver in other words I can get in anybody car and drive it without me having any insurance , or so I been told by family members , I now wonder how I would had stand if I was stopped in the uk driving the car

 

[Neil_Y]

I don't see the money side of things having any impact on the way the rules operate, there are already many wealthy expensive yachts that have to keep moving out of Europe for legal and tax reasons that we supply. They are all the non EU registered vessels or vessels owned by individuals or companies from countries outside EU. I'm talking about 30 - 50m vessels paying many Euros to park up and have work done. So us holiday brits with a 10 or 12m boat are not that relevant in terms of cash as far as the EU system is concerned. They may just add cruising permits or clearance costs as other countries do. Meanwhile I have an unregistered boat on an unregistered trailer in Stockholm?

 

[lw395]

The rules with vehicle currently mean you are not permitted to use a vehicle that is not registered in your country of residency.

My Swedish partner drove over to UK in her (Swedish) volvo still on Swedish registration and plates and I as a UK resident was not permitted to drive it in the UK. It's fine for me to drive it in Sweden though. I have a British trailer in Sweden with my boat on it, we don't need to register trailers so it has my cars plates on it. WTF happens after Brexit to that?

That's not a Brexit problem, it's an EU problem.
Brexit won't alter the fact that the only way to tow a UK trailer in Sweden is with a UK car.

 

[Neil_Y]

The EU rules say if it's legal in one country of the EU the other countries have to permit its use. So pre Brexit I can tow it with a Swedish or UK car in Sweden, after... they don't know. This was the response from the Swedish traffic authorities.

 

[lw395]

The EU rules say if it's legal in one country of the EU the other countries have to permit its use. So pre Brexit I can tow it with a Swedish or UK car in Sweden, after... they don't know. This was the response from the Swedish traffic authorities.

In the past, I've been told that a German car in Germany can only tow a properly registered German trailer.

 

[blampied]

Please can anyone advise.

Living inJersey, I'm not sure if my vat paperwork is normal.

The boat an Aquastar was built in Guernsey 1996/7 (so outside the EU)
It was purchased by the first owner a UK resident 1997
Sold by him to a second UK resident in 2003
Then purchased by me a Jersey resident 2013 (so once again outside EU)
(I have an audit trail bills of sales for all changes of owners)

The ships papers include a letter from HM Customs and Excise dated June 1997
(which is the only vat paperwork I have.)

Dear mr !!!!!!!!!!
After due consideration and scrutiny of the documentary evidence you have provided, we are satisfied that your vessel is deemed to be VAT paid within the European Community.
Details of the boat name and SSR number.
You are advised to keep this document together with the vessels paperwork as evidence of its VAT status.

(Name has remained the same, but SSR number changed when I bought boat as Jersey uses a unique range of SSR numbers)

Please can anyone advise if the above is different for the usual VAT paperwork.
After the 3 changes of owners and me being outside the UK is the VAT paid status still valid.
(We tend to live on the boat, travelling around the Med for years at a time)

And as the letter specifies VAT paid within the European Community will that be sufficient post BRITEXIT ?

Thanking you all in advance for your replies

 

[lw395]

Please can anyone advise.

Living inJersey, I'm not sure if my vat paperwork is normal.

The boat an Aquastar was built in Guernsey 1996/7 (so outside the EU)
It was purchased by the first owner a UK resident 1997
Sold by him to a second UK resident in 2003
Then purchased by me a Jersey resident 2013 (so once again outside EU)
(I have an audit trail bills of sales for all changes of owners)

The ships papers include a letter from HM Customs and Excise dated June 1997
(which is the only vat paperwork I have.)

Dear mr !!!!!!!!!!
After due consideration and scrutiny of the documentary evidence you have provided, we are satisfied that your vessel is deemed to be VAT paid within the European Community.
Details of the boat name and SSR number.
You are advised to keep this document together with the vessels paperwork as evidence of its VAT status.

(Name has remained the same, but SSR number changed when I bought boat as Jersey uses a unique range of SSR numbers)

Please can anyone advise if the above is different for the usual VAT paperwork.
After the 3 changes of owners and me being outside the UK is the VAT paid status still valid.
(We tend to live on the boat, travelling around the Med for years at a time)

And as the letter specifies VAT paid within the European Community will that be sufficient post BRITEXIT ?

Thanking you all in advance for your replies

When you bought it, was the transaction outside the EU or in?
Since then, where has it been?

 

[blampied]

Hi lw395

Transaction to buy the boat was Poole in the U.K. (bought from U.K. citizen so I think that the VAT is still valid as long as when I eventually decide to sell it I sell it to a U.K. person in the U.K..)
I motored it across the channel to Jersey and have had it registered in Jersey ever since.
Spent 4 years traveling down to and around the Med, now back in Jersey but planning to head off through the French inland waterways back towards the Med in April.

 

[lw395]

Hi lw395

Transaction to buy the boat was Poole in the U.K. (bought from U.K. citizen so I think that the VAT is still valid as long as when I eventually decide to sell it I sell it to a U.K. person in the U.K..)
I motored it across the channel to Jersey and have had it registered in Jersey ever since.
Spent 4 years traveling down to and around the Med, now back in Jersey but planning to head off through the French inland waterways back towards the Med in April.

Personally I would not buy your boat for use in the UK, without proper advice from someone I could sue if it went pear-shaped. I suspect it's a reasonable interpretation of events that you exported your yacht to Jersey where you registered it. Since then it's simply been visiting the EU, even if it may have overstayed the permitted lengths of time.

 

[nortada]

No Vic, the 90 day limit in the rolling 180 day rule covers the whole Schengen area. It starts the day you arrive then stops when you 'clock out' of the Schengen area. So you could do 90 days in the Schengen area then visit a non Schengen EU state but you would then need to fly out of that or another non schengen area back to the UK. If you overstay.... a couple of days no one sems to mind but if it was several weeks or a month you risk having illegal overstayer stamped in your passport and then refused entry back into Europe. This was a sumary of the situation for an American tourist who sat down and looked in depth as to how he can bend the rules. So as a third country this is what we are likely to have, especially as the UK is looking to end free movement.

The Greek article is interesting and encouraging, but that is going to apply to those who are residents presumably with property and Tax numbers etc.

From this article it would appear that Greece is adopting a very similar position to Portugal. 20,000 Brits in Greece and 50,000 Greeks in the UK - no real surprise.

It would appear that whatever the outcome of Brexit countries are going to adopt their own approach to British visitors and expats and Brussels will have little say in it.

 

[jordanbasset]

It would appear that whatever the outcome of Brexit countries are going to adopt their own approach to British visitors and expats and Brussels will have little say in it.

I think the situation with residents in Greece etc will be okay, probably have to pay for insurance cover etc but basically it will be sorted.
Visitors/tourists is a different thing and have still seen nothing that even suggests we will not be subject to the 90 days in 180 days rolling period. Of course if you have I would be very grateful for the information

 

[st599]

The other big problem with Schengen visas is that you don't get the 5 year multiple entry visa straight away. You have to build up trust. So you need a few single entry visas issued by the individual country's embassy in the UK. Then at least 1 double entry. Then you can apply for the full Schengen visa