Unwelcoming Owners' websites

[Sticky Fingers]

See MoodySabre's answer below. Same thing. Doesn't happen now.

It was last week. My question was posted in the open section for prospective Moody owners. The response was that I'd need to join if I wanted an answer.

So I don't really understand their thinking.

 

[Cantata]

PM'd you Graham.

 

[dylanwinter]

Mea culpa - I'm the webmaster for parkerseal.org.uk.

The registration system we use is that each new registration is reviewed manually before being accepted. This can take a day or so, and I've now processed your registration.

The reason we do this is to prevent spam postings, which really messed up our forum a couple of years ago. But it's clearly not working well... And we don't ask for "all sorts of info", just a username and email address.

Anyway, I can assure you that Parker and Seal owners are a friendly lot (even if the website isn't!) and will be very happy to tell you all you want to know.

PS. I've now changed the registration process so all you need to do is verify your email - no approval needed anymore. Let's hope stopforumspam.com works!

the wordpress spam filters are very good

anyone can post on my website any time

the spam filter hoovers up most of the rubbish - occasionally some promo drud gets through but you mark it as spam and those spam reports are shared with other wordpress websites so no mentions of jackets, casinos or meeting mature babes in my area

 

[Sticky Fingers]

PM'd you Graham.

Thanks, replied and appreciated!

 

[Babylon]

Our owners association is really welcoming and helpful - but I won't mention which make of yachts in case Seajet arms one his SCUD missiles...!

Love you Andy!!

 

[Babylon]

A really good way of sidestepping annoying official website Gauleiters is to set up a 'hidden' or 'secret' Facebook group - where all the really nice owners can go.

 

[oldbilbo]

Further.....

'Is the 'Moody Owners Association' an apt description...?

 

[aquaplane]

I was wondering about Hunter 27 Pilots and ended up registering for the web site to look up info, which wasn't exceptional to be honest.

A month later I got a reminder to pay the association fees. I made it plain when registering that I was info gathering with a view to buying possibly in the future. A quick email stopped any further reminders.

I'm a member of the WOA which is good value for what you get, and you are reminded of it ad nauseam.

The WOA forum is open but there are bits on the main web site locked away until you pay, not my way of going on but it seems to work for the more commercial thinkers of the association, and it is run like a business not a group of helpful owners.

 

[vyv_cox]

It was last week. My question was posted in the open section for prospective Moody owners. The response was that I'd need to join if I wanted an answer.

So I don't really understand their thinking.

I almost responded earlier but my own experience was a few years ago and I hoped that things might have changed, but it seems not.

I was asked by a Moody owner to look at a photo on the owners' website in order to diagnose a fracture. I looked at the pic and could see the cause of the problem. I tried to post my diagnosis but was not allowed to. I then contacted the website administrator, explained the situation and asked if I could add my info to the thread. Only if I joined and paid money, I was told.

 

[Babylon]

I was asked by a Moody owner to look at a photo on the owners' website in order to diagnose a fracture. I looked at the pic and could see the cause of the problem. I tried to post my diagnosis but was not allowed to. I then contacted the website administrator, explained the situation and asked if I could add my info to the thread. Only if I joined and paid money, I was told.

Would a lateral solution not have been to get the Moody owner - assuming they were a member - to post your diagnosis themselves on the parsimonious website?

On second throughs, if the membership is so small-minded, why give them the benefit of your generosity!

 

[roblpm]

I just tried to find out more aabout the Parker 275/285 British-built boats, and the differences. There was little of help on the web, so I tried the Owners' Association website. So I had to register... OK, I did.

So, despite giving all sorts of infor about me, I couldn't post a question... or read more than before.

Sod it.

If you have one or more of them for sale, and it suits me exactly, I don't know about it and can't find out about it. I've now gone elsewhere....

Schmucks!

Immaculate one coming up for sale..... Not mine! The other one at my club is on sale. 2 year old yanmar 2GM20. Its going to be a bargain for someone.......

 

[GrahamM376]

Would a lateral solution not have been to get the Moody owner - assuming they were a member - to post your diagnosis themselves on the parsimonious website?

On second throughs, if the membership is so small-minded, why give them the benefit of your generosity!

1963 members of the association think it's a good thing.

 

[NeilE]

Re: Unwelcoming Owners' websites - not true???

Hi there,

This is a long and complicated answer, but I hope you will indulge me. I'm the volunteer webmaster of the Moodyowners Association, so whatever are the problems, they are all my fault. So please accept my apologies in advance.

I suspect that I am the "pompous prat of an official phone me at home at night and give me a telling off." The quote on this website to be complete is:
"I asked a question once on the Moody Owners website and I had some pompous prat of an official phone me at home at night and give me a telling off. I was so surprised I didnt even tell him to go away in short jerky movements."

Well in my defence, I don't remember it, if I gave offence I apologise, but I would love to know the wording of the question and its tone.

The one thing we are very firm about is that we don't allow personal abuse on our website and to help we insist on people posting using their real names - I really don't hold with this "handle" idea (mine is NeilE on this site but my real name in Neil Eccles). We believe there is no place for that in the boating world.

As to the "unfriendly" criticism, there are 2 or 3 people making this accusation on this website and perhaps we should look at what we offer, but it is fairly logically thought out and our members agree with it. That is not to say we can't change of course and we shall look again, I promise you. If you take the trouble to read this "essay" reply, and have some constructive suggestions, we would love to hear from you.

To explain:
We have 2 websites. moodyowners.org which is open to all and is really an information site. You can join the association online very simply and it has a clear explanation of what membership and guest options are offered. Full details are here http://moodyowners.org/joining-options/
By the way I have changed the top level domain to reflect what we do following some criticism on this site. It used to be moodyowners.net which is generally used by the IT industry. Whoever made that suggestion thank you.

The second website is the one I think people criticise, moodyowners.info which is primarily a login site.
This is a number of forums much like the YBW forums, but entirely dedicated to technical issues regarding Moody boats, and some cruising knowledge. It also has a technical resource area where members write up "how to do" technical articles and contains electronic copies of our later try-annual printed magazine Compass posted world wide. All this is only available to members who pay a very reasonable £20pa.

A very long time ago the then version of moodyowners.info was available to everyone without being a member. The members raised the issue worrying that they were paying for keeping all this together, but non members were gaining the benefit. The Association then decided to make this forum a log in only area for members. There were a number of upset people - owners of Moody boats who refused to become members of the MOA to belong to the community and have access to the forum. Gradually the upset went away when reasonable people recognised that in a volunteer association, fairness should prevail.

Then we looked again at our offering to the potential Moody purchaser. We established a free guest login which was entitled "Thinking about buying a Moody" which allows access only to that particular forum, but only allows the guest to post a general question like "I'm thinking about buying a Moody 346, are there any generic issues I should look out for?"
It does not allow specific technical questions like "the Moody 346 I'm looking at needs a new rudder shaft, please can you tell me the diameter, the approximate cost and where I might obtain one?".

Just recently we thought about all this again and now have another category of membership called Temporary Member (confused? I know I might be by now!). This tackles the "Catch 22" frustration of the potential purchaser in not being able to dig into the technical archives of the Association and also not being able to join to get access because they don't own a Moody!

Temporary membership offers virtually all the benefits of full membership if you are not an owner of a Moody boat, (or regular sailor on one), for up to a year for the joining fee. You have access to all we know asking all the questions you want in the hope that you will buy a Moody.

We are now thinking about these 3 offerings, so any contribution to how to make them simpler, and user friendly for non Moody Owners whilst preserving fairness for the majority who contribute to our non profit making association would be most gratefully received.

Thank you for allowing me on to the YBW site to answer your criticisms, I do hope it has helped.

Kind regards

Neil Eccles
Website Editor
Moodyowners Association

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Re: Unwelcoming Owners' websites - not true???

Hi Neil

Thanks for responding, I appreciate you have a fine line to tread and that ultimately as the volunteer-admin of a service funded by its members you're probably caught between a rock and a hard place in trying to please everybody, especially non-members who have contributed nothing much to date... !

But that said, I don't understand how it can benefit the membership generally, or a potential member particularly, if you stop a paid-up member helping an enquirer with some relevant info on a potential boat purchase, which was the whole point of that subforum. Maybe I should have asked my Q a different way that wouldn't have caused the peremptory thread shutdown and lock, but I did feel rebuffed and unwelcome as a result of the action taken and it had the unintended side effect of making me see the MOA in a negative light. It all seemed a bit old school protectionist and Masonic.

 

[pmagowan]

Re: Unwelcoming Owners' websites - not true???

It seems old fashioned, confusing and unhelpful to me. The idea of blocking people out because they haven't paid is all a bit archaic and cutting off nose to spite face. The modern way of doing things is to have everything as open as can be and use soft pressure to encourage people to contribute. Look at Dylans videos, he relys on people occasionally donating a few quid. This method generally works as people realise that in the modern world you need to go for numbers, make stuff accessible and welcoming and encourage people to join. Yes, make a small part of the website members only but the majority of it, no! It is like asking someone on the dock for help and them wanting to check out your handshake first!

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Re: Unwelcoming Owners' websites - not true???

Yes, I agree with you. As it happens, one of the MOA members has kindly spent some considerable time and trouble to provide me with a detailed and comprehensive answer to the question that I attempted to ask on the owners Association website. I won't name him now for fear of embarrassing him, but suffice to say that an answer of that depth and quality received on the owners Association forum would have been a much more positive outcome, and would have show the association's members in a positive, knowledgeable, friendly and supportive light. So I think this is an opportunity wasted.

 

[Seajet]

Re: Unwelcoming Owners' websites - not true???

Hi there,

This is a long and complicated answer, but I hope you will indulge me. I'm the volunteer webmaster of the Moodyowners Association, so whatever are the problems, they are all my fault. So please accept my apologies in advance.

I suspect that I am the "pompous prat of an official phone me at home at night and give me a telling off." The quote on this website to be complete is:
"I asked a question once on the Moody Owners website and I had some pompous prat of an official phone me at home at night and give me a telling off. I was so surprised I didnt even tell him to go away in short jerky movements."

Well in my defence, I don't remember it, if I gave offence I apologise, but I would love to know the wording of the question and its tone.

The one thing we are very firm about is that we don't allow personal abuse on our website and to help we insist on people posting using their real names - I really don't hold with this "handle" idea (mine is NeilE on this site but my real name in Neil Eccles). We believe there is no place for that in the boating world.

As to the "unfriendly" criticism, there are 2 or 3 people making this accusation on this website and perhaps we should look at what we offer, but it is fairly logically thought out and our members agree with it. That is not to say we can't change of course and we shall look again, I promise you. If you take the trouble to read this "essay" reply, and have some constructive suggestions, we would love to hear from you.

To explain:
We have 2 websites. moodyowners.org which is open to all and is really an information site. You can join the association online very simply and it has a clear explanation of what membership and guest options are offered. Full details are here http://moodyowners.org/joining-options/
By the way I have changed the top level domain to reflect what we do following some criticism on this site. It used to be moodyowners.net which is generally used by the IT industry. Whoever made that suggestion thank you.

The second website is the one I think people criticise, moodyowners.info which is primarily a login site.
This is a number of forums much like the YBW forums, but entirely dedicated to technical issues regarding Moody boats, and some cruising knowledge. It also has a technical resource area where members write up "how to do" technical articles and contains electronic copies of our later try-annual printed magazine Compass posted world wide. All this is only available to members who pay a very reasonable £20pa.

A very long time ago the then version of moodyowners.info was available to everyone without being a member. The members raised the issue worrying that they were paying for keeping all this together, but non members were gaining the benefit. The Association then decided to make this forum a log in only area for members. There were a number of upset people - owners of Moody boats who refused to become members of the MOA to belong to the community and have access to the forum. Gradually the upset went away when reasonable people recognised that in a volunteer association, fairness should prevail.

Then we looked again at our offering to the potential Moody purchaser. We established a free guest login which was entitled "Thinking about buying a Moody" which allows access only to that particular forum, but only allows the guest to post a general question like "I'm thinking about buying a Moody 346, are there any generic issues I should look out for?"
It does not allow specific technical questions like "the Moody 346 I'm looking at needs a new rudder shaft, please can you tell me the diameter, the approximate cost and where I might obtain one?".

Just recently we thought about all this again and now have another category of membership called Temporary Member (confused? I know I might be by now!). This tackles the "Catch 22" frustration of the potential purchaser in not being able to dig into the technical archives of the Association and also not being able to join to get access because they don't own a Moody!

Temporary membership offers virtually all the benefits of full membership if you are not an owner of a Moody boat, (or regular sailor on one), for up to a year for the joining fee. You have access to all we know asking all the questions you want in the hope that you will buy a Moody.

We are now thinking about these 3 offerings, so any contribution to how to make them simpler, and user friendly for non Moody Owners whilst preserving fairness for the majority who contribute to our non profit making association would be most gratefully received.

Thank you for allowing me on to the YBW site to answer your criticisms, I do hope it has helped.

Kind regards

Neil Eccles
Website Editor
Moodyowners Association

Hi Neil,

I am on your side, as I also try to run an Owner's Association - which is a surpringly hard, expensive task !


Stick at it, your efforts are I'm sure appreciated by a great many - even if those who bother to thank you are few ! :encouragement:

 

[Babylon]

Re: Unwelcoming Owners' websites - not true???

Neil

Having read your considered response, I feel a bit bad about what I posted earlier.

But I tend to agree with pmagowan: do consider a more 'open' model for the technical stuff... and you can still keep members and the association's more personal stuff behind closed doors of course.

 

[Oldfellah]

Re: Unwelcoming Owners' websites - not true???

As a newbie to boat ownership I joined the MOA and have found the site to be extremely helpful and friendly. Keep up the good work is what I say and thank goodness for fellow boat owners that are only to happy to advise and help an aging but enthusiastic Moody owner.

I would also add that this site has also been a godsend for me, thanks to all.

 

[Seajet]

Re: Unwelcoming Owners' websites - not true???

Owners Associations

I have to say in the MOA defence, it is not at all unusual to spend all evening or even a few days answering someone's questions, only for them to clear off with the free info, buy one of the boats in question and never pay their fee, no thanks no nothing !

I ended up making a special little ' S**t list ' file of such types in case they come back in future in some dire need - it's happened and is deeply satisfying...