Unwelcoming Owners' websites

[pmagowan]

I have no problem with the concept of raising funds. That is fine. It is this closed shop mentality unless you are a member that is the problem. Each to their own, if that does it for you guys then fine. I think an owners association should promote the lifestyle and to do so it should have as much material as possible freely available online as well as showing what a friendly and helpful bunch x-owners are. No problem with 'join up and get access to the members area and x,y and z benefits. The big turn off is the 'we will only answer that question if you join!'.

My boat was not made in big enough numbers to have an owners association as there are probably less than a dozen still in existance. However, there is one man who has developed a very informative and free website on them. He obviously enjoys it and good for him. Each to their own.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I find it surprising that boat owners and potential owners are reluctant to spend what is a small sum on joining an owners' association relative to the cost of owning or buying a boat.

Someone might well be thinking of five or ten different makes of boat, and joining five or ten owners' associations on the off-chance might be seen as a bit of hassle. I think the Moody solution of some closed forums and some open is sensible, though as I have said I think their policy of banning useful information from the open forums may be a little counter-productive.

I couldn't have put it better myself...........................................................................................................................as to why sailing as a pastime is dying on its arse!

That was the Oyster owners' association, and Oyster owners are not ... how can I put this kindly? ... known for their egalitarian spirit. Lovely chaps, of course, but the riff-raff are politely but firmly expected to keep their distance.

But do the members actually want all that? In the age of the Internet, many just want a forum.

Agreed. I was a member of the Westerly OA and I am a member of the Hunter Association and the Victoria Shadow Association and all of them display(ed) a remarkable fondness for printed publications. Do I really want a printed list of every WOA member and boat, when it could be circulated as a small pdf?

 

[[3889]]

Be grateful and recognise that something free is often worthless.

But that is just the opposite of my experience. The free sites, such as this, many of which manage to cover their operating costs and then some through advertising, provide a far better resource than paid-for sites I have used. It's not the cost but the correlation between charge and lack of quality arising from limiting interaction, as noted by many journalists when Times newspapers went behind a paywall.

 

[Bobc]

This is an interesting debate for me, as the BOA have been discussing whether to open part or all of the forum up to all, and the view hear is that opening part of it up (maybe have a non-member section where potential owners can ask questions about models, and where people can ask advice on where to source spares and such like) would be a positive step.

So please keep all the input coming.

 

[pmagowan]

This is an interesting debate for me, as the BOA have been discussing whether to open part or all of the forum up to all, and the view hear is that opening part of it up (maybe have a non-member section where potential owners can ask questions about models, and where people can ask advice on where to source spares and such like) would be a positive step.

So please keep all the input coming.

I think you open almost all of it with only a small members section closed off. The emphasis should be, IMO, to encourage participation, not to restrict it. Almost all internet based organisation seem to recognise that this is more productive and a better way to end up raising revenue.

 

[Seajet]

I have no problem with the concept of raising funds. That is fine. It is this closed shop mentality unless you are a member that is the problem. Each to their own, if that does it for you guys then fine. I think an owners association should promote the lifestyle and to do so it should have as much material as possible freely available online as well as showing what a friendly and helpful bunch x-owners are. No problem with 'join up and get access to the members area and x,y and z benefits. The big turn off is the 'we will only answer that question if you join!'.

My boat was not made in big enough numbers to have an owners association as there are probably less than a dozen still in existance. However, there is one man who has developed a very informative and free website on them. He obviously enjoys it and good for him. Each to their own.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there.

Provide all the info someone interested in buying such a boat may require, for free - and also answer any questions.

This of course benefits members too as it keeps their boat's profile up and definitely aids resale.

Then the members who stump up get the chat forum and lots of technical advice; the answers to questions I found myself repeatedly answering are now on the member's part of the website.

The' we'll only talk to paying members / existing owners ' is absolutely wrong IMO.

The reverse can be true though, I've had quite a few people over the years pay to join when they're seeking to buy one of the boats, and so can get access to the member's forum for news of boats coming up for sale before they're advertised etc.

 

[nigelmercier]

This is an interesting debate for me, as the BOA have been discussing whether to open part or all of the forum up to all ...

You mean like I suggested in 2011?

 

[Seajet]

You mean like I suggested in 2011?

That's what you get for having an association run by committee !

 

[rwoofer]

All the boats I have owned had very open owners websites and I would say the access to information and the confidence it gave you were instrumental in the purchase decision. That was why I was surprised when the MOA closed forums to the public that made me want to buy a Moody at the time. Same thing with cars or any other complex purchase.

 

[Bobc]

You mean like I suggested in 2011?

Very possibly. I wouldn't know.

 

[Andy61]

Interesting thread.

I am a member of the Sadler and Starlight Owners Association (SSOA) and a couple of years ago we discussed this issue at the AGM. Should non-members be allowed access to our website. The consensus was to allow non-members to continue to contribute even though they did not contribute to the running costs. In support of this, I raised two points, a former member (Neil Wallace, who sold his boat due to age) had many years of Sadler 34 ownership and still had a lot to offer in terms of advice re-maintenance and upgrades. The second was a non-member owner of a Sadler 34 who is well known on this forum (Vyv Cox) whose knowledge is arguably second-to-none. To lose them both as contributors would clearly be a great loss and to allow them continued access is a small price to pay for other members to benefit. I presume other owner's associations have similar such non-members. In Vyv's case, would it be realistic for him to join a plethora of OA's so that he could help out freely with owner's issues? I think not. The SSOA membership fee is currently £17.00.

The previously raised point about umbrella hosting of OA's (perhaps by YBW) is a great idea. I can see benefits in advertising and targetted marketing and think this should be explored.

As for paper information, I love to have my SSOA year book handy when I am out and about. It helps me identify fellow members and is something I wouldn't do if I had to rely in internet access on a screen to flip through pages - no thanks, keep these handy booklets going I say.

 

[Seajet]

Andy61,

I agree with all you say; in the case of the Anderson 22 & 26 O.A. I do all the writing - and my chum Jenny the IT stuff - so thankfully we don't have to apply to committee's, just do what seems right.

People who have made or can make more useful contributions get free life memberships.

To keep costs down I e-mail everyone ( inc enquirers interested in the boats ) our 12 page ' Top Tips ' handbook - which is just that, not member's details - in easily printed format, it's a lot easier and cheaper for them to print out at their end if they so wish - it's also on the member's part of our website, it seems a lot - and possibly a distraction -to put on the open part but I do mention its availability to those interested.

I also agree a ' sticky ' list of Owners Associations would be a good idea.

 

[Andy61]

Thanks for that Seajet, I see I'm going to have to bring this thread to the attention of the powers-that-be at the SSOA. I wonder how YBW moderators would feel about hosting OA's and if OA's would see this as a solution for the future.

 

[Seajet]

Andy61,

well it's only a natural move if YBW are to continue to try to be useful to boat owners, indeed David Harding of PBO reviewed my boat in 1997, I think the charges for reprints are a bit stiff but that's Time Inc...

Andy

 

[nigelmercier]

... I also agree a ' sticky ' list of Owners Associations would be a good idea.

So how does one become an Owners Association? In what way are they official?

 

[Seajet]

So how does one become an Owners Association? In what way are they official?

Nigel,

not ' official ' at all, it's a case of ' until someone comes up with a better version / idea ' !

The OA I run is a labour of love with a design I've been fond of and known inside & out for 40 years, it takes a surprising amount of time and effort and runs at a loss to me; I suspect most Owners Associations are much the same.

Andy

 

[jimbaerselman]

Nigel,

not ' official ' at all, it's a case of ' until someone comes up with a better version / idea ' !

The OA I run is a labour of love with a design I've been fond of and known inside & out for 40 years, it takes a surprising amount of time and effort and runs at a loss to me; I suspect most Owners Associations are much the same.

Andy

Andy,

Just like my site. A labour of love, and a lovely way of re-visiting 50 years of cruising European destinations.

Some bigger boat associations are quite formal though. With electable "officers", incorporation and limited liability.

I'm wondering now how to give the site a longer life. There seems to be a case for a unified home for all this share-able information. But making it pay enough to be more than a labour of love is an up-hill battle. Most print publishing is facing this dilemma - it's just too easy to publish on the web!

 

[Seajet]

Jimbaerselman,,

( love the SC5 pic BTW, John Farley said good things about it apart from ' working all 5 engines like an organ player ' ! )

I think if one is considering giving up, look around for keen proponents of the class.

I know a couple or maybe more mad keen Anderson enthusiasts who might take the job on if I drop off my perch, but I'd have to get the details and paperwork sorted first, as even I can't keep tabs on half of it !

If it ever got to a committee and ' electable officers ' I'd not only throw the towel in, I'd try to choke either myself or who ever suggested it with it...

 

[oldbilbo]

With over 97 posts now, many of them interesting, perhaps this thread is serving a more positive purpose than might have been.

It seems clear there are ( at least ) two types of Owners' Sites, and that - perhaps unwittingly - they reflect the social mores of their membership.

There's the 'We're rather exclusive and you can join only if your face and your wallet fits' bunch. You know who you are....

Then there's the 'We're well pleased with our range of boats and, if you show the slightest hint of interest, we'll invite you in/along to join us'. I've met examples of both in recent months, and it's clear to me which get a positive response and a £10 membership fee, just to find out what they ( the boats? ) are like.

 

[vyv_cox]

Interesting thread.

I am a member of the Sadler and Starlight Owners Association (SSOA) and a couple of years ago we discussed this issue at the AGM. Should non-members be allowed access to our website. The consensus was to allow non-members to continue to contribute even though they did not contribute to the running costs. In support of this, I raised two points, a former member (Neil Wallace, who sold his boat due to age) had many years of Sadler 34 ownership and still had a lot to offer in terms of advice re-maintenance and upgrades. The second was a non-member owner of a Sadler 34 who is well known on this forum (Vyv Cox) whose knowledge is arguably second-to-none. To lose them both as contributors would clearly be a great loss and to allow them continued access is a small price to pay for other members to benefit. I presume other owner's associations have similar such non-members. In Vyv's case, would it be realistic for him to join a plethora of OA's so that he could help out freely with owner's issues? I think not. The SSOA membership fee is currently £17.00.

The previously raised point about umbrella hosting of OA's (perhaps by YBW) is a great idea. I can see benefits in advertising and targetted marketing and think this should be explored.

As for paper information, I love to have my SSOA year book handy when I am out and about. It helps me identify fellow members and is something I wouldn't do if I had to rely in internet access on a screen to flip through pages - no thanks, keep these handy booklets going I say.

Somewhat embarrassing to find that my non-membership of the SSOA was discussed at the AGM In return, my own website is available to all, free of charge, which I know from worldwide correspondence is widely read. It costs me about £60 per year to host it, plus many hours of work adding and editing material. My thanks to all those who send me photos and case histories.