UK Sailors And Expats In The EU - Run Up To Friday 29th March 2019 & Beyond?

[greeny]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

How would they know? Or is it "supposed to be".

Hi there,
The question I was raising was based on whether the information the local authority obtained during the residence application process would / could ever be passed on to the Finance department. If they do then the Finances have all they need to come after you. If you are resident here in Portugal then it follows that your world wide income is reported here. The amount that is taxed will be based upon the type of income and maybe modified by any dual taxation agreements that are in place. The only income I know of that is outside of this, is rental income in another country and that is "normally" taxed in the country in which it arises.
|I thought this risk was worth highlighting before people go flocking to the Camara offices to register as residents only to find a tax letter landing on their doorstep at some time later.
Not seen you around for a while, still in Bruce's?

 

[Graham376]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Hi there, The question I was raising was based on whether the information the local authority obtained during the residence application process would / could ever be passed on to the Finance department.

Finances are well involved when houses change hands as they're a chargeable asset but they're more interested in the seller as a large lump of tax is due unless rolled over into a new house within (IIRC) 2 years. No sign that Finances are involved with just a residence application though if no property purchase is involved.

P.S. If you rent a property, even for short term holiday, SEF (immigration dept.) are notified by letting agent or landlord.

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

How would they know? Or is it "supposed to be".

In Greece a lot of British ex-pats we know rely on the fact that 'nobody knows they're here', but as we know it's hard to function in the modern world without leaving a trail. Whilst the UK is an EU member Greece (and possibly other states) probably don't waste time and effort checking on UK ex-pats - but after Brexit they well might. Personally I think the wise option is to be fully legal before March.

BTW. In Greece a tax number is called in English, by the locals here at least, a VAT number though it has nothing to do with VAT. You need a tax number in Greece to do anything that involves interacting with the state (buying a car, renting an apartment etc.) and once you have one you are supposed to file yearly tax returns. Nobody in Greece seems to check whether you do however (but see the above).

In Greece a 'national insurance number' is called an AMKA number and EU nationals registered in Greece can get one for the asking. If you want to take advantage of the S1 form option as pensioners you will need an AMKA number.

 

[nortada]

A 3 year visa for €7?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6495379/British-holidaymakers-charged-7-visit-EU.html

Sounds good to me!

A 3 year visa for €7?

Just get the necessary collection of visas and this could resolve most of the problems for those British Boaties who wish to cruise from country to country?

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6495379/British-holidaymakers-charged-7-visit-EU.html

Sounds good to me!

A 3 year visa for €7?

Just get the necessary collection of visas and this could resolve most of the problems for those British Boaties who wish to cruise from country to country?

No, you will still be limited to 90 days in every 180, you will just need a visa to take advantage of that if we leave with no deal. I agree the £7 is either here nor there, just another bureacritic hurdle to jump through

 

[nortada]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

No, you will still be limited to 90 days in every 180, you will just need a visa to take advantage of that if we leave with no deal. I agree the £7 is either here nor there, just another bureaucratic hurdle to jump through

Link or just speculation?

For those who just wish to base their boat in an EU country, Registration should resolve access problems to that country and then their 3 year visa should allow them to cruise at least for 90 days in any 180.

As UK sailors would be in the same situation as other aliens, it would be interested to get a US input. From my observation, US friends in Portugal seem to manage their time here without any problems. At present most of them have returned to the Old Country for Thanksgiving running into the New Year but when they get back I will seek their thoughts.

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

Link or just speculation?

Thought it rather obvious, we will will need to pay the 7 euros for the VISA if we leave with no deal, the EU call it an ETIAS, details here
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/etias/

 

[Mistroma]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

Link or just speculation?

For those who just wish to base their boat in an EU country, Registration should resolve access problems to that country and then their 3 year visa should allow them to cruise at least for 90 days in any 180.

As UK sailors would be in the same situation as other aliens, it would be interested to get a US input. From my observation, US friends in Portugal seem to manage their time here without any problems. At present most of them have returned to the Old Country for Thanksgiving running into the New Year but when they get back I will seek their thoughts.

I tend to have no fixed abode in the summer and just wander around. I'm only in a yard between November - April. Registration doesn't really solve any of my problems, I've previously been in France for a few months, then Italy plus back & forth (Corsica, Sardinia) or even Greece. I might stay in Greece for longer but liked the lack of any fixed plans.

I'd have to sail April, May, June and return to UK for July, August and Sept in order to get some more time afloat later that year. I usually sail in October, November but not December.

Limiting cruising to 90 days in any 180 will be a real pain. It will be interesting to find out how Americans, Canadians etc. handle the situation. I suspect that many just get away with bending the rules. e.g. I think there's an American/French agreement to get an extra 90 days but that only covers France. I guess that they could then get away with travel to Italy, Greece etc. before returning to USA via France. Probably OK if they keep clear of Germany as they'd probably be caught.

 

[macd]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

Link or just speculation?

Neither is needed. It's inevitable and has been for some time. "Third country" isn't a difficult concept.

 

[GHA]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

In Greece a lot of British ex-pats we know rely on the fact that 'nobody knows they're here', but as we know it's hard to function in the modern world without leaving a trail.

Maybe thread drift but hard to see how they would know short of looking at bank statements. I've done years before not resident in any country at all, never a problem.
Just did a quick trip north, from memory no passport checks either leaving portugal or UK other than a glance but the ryan air staff at the gate. Not really good manners to gloat....but.... it did feel rather good leaving the UK on a UK passport and entering Portugal on a nice shiny new Irish one

Not seen you around for a while, still in Bruce's?

Still here, lots gigs, up Alcantaria tomorrow then again thursday.

 

[Graham376]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

Maybe thread drift but hard to see how they would know short of looking at bank statements.

Most use marinas even if only occasionally and they send details to authorities.

We're off to Lisbon tomorrow, should be in Bruce's early Jan, see you then.

 

[One A.]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

I have a friend in Crete who has been refused medical access in the UK because they are also registered to a GP in Greece, things are getting tighter.

 

[Graham376]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

I have a friend in Crete who has been refused medical access in the UK because they are also registered to a GP in Greece, things are getting tighter (Tony, Sue En Route)

Under what circumstances? Have they emigrated from UK? Those who don't officially leave the UK - take up tax residence elsewhere etc. - should always maintain a UK address at friends or relatives address, to stay in the system.

 

[macd]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

I have a friend in Crete who has been refused medical access in the UK because they are also registered to a GP in Greece, things are getting tighter (Tony, Sue En Route)

The test for NHS eligibility is now "normally/ordinarily resident". (It used to be described as 183 days' residence p.a. but that has doubtful standing; I think the change came about as a result of legal challenge.) There is on-line a fairly exhaustive check-list used by NHS staff to determine eligibility.** This, and much more, is clear from it. I doubt that registration with an overseas GP would, alone, disbar anyone, but it could be a factor taken into account.

** Can't find the link at present, but if it's of value, I'll persist. Please indicate.

Found it: https://assets.publishing.service.g..._data/file/736849/Ordinary_residence_tool.pdf

P.S. I doubt things (in this respect) are getting tighter at all. The previous eligibility test was certainly less flexible than the current one.

 

[One A.]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

The two sides are talking to each other....... That's all.

 

[AndrewB]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

Limiting cruising to 90 days in any 180 will be a real pain. It will be interesting to find out how Americans, Canadians etc. handle the situation. I suspect that many just get away with bending the rules. e.g. I think there's an American/French agreement to get an extra 90 days but that only covers France. I guess that they could then get away with travel to Italy, Greece etc. before returning to USA via France. Probably OK if they keep clear of Germany as they'd probably be caught.

Indeed. We too have been staying in Greece most of the summer, i.e. up to 6 months annually. Up to now I've been truly grateful we don't have to go through the contortions of American sailing friends keeping their yacht in Greece, who seem forever to be having to make side-trips to Albania and Montenegro and then crossing their fingers they'll be allowed back in. By comparison, when we've sailed to the USA we've been granted a 6 month stay without any quibbling!

Easier just to give up and take the boat back to the UK. If the Greeks still want our money after Brexit, well they'll have to be more accommodating.

 

[macd]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

If the Greeks still want our money after Brexit, well they'll have to be more accommodating.

I'm not sure they'll be able to make such an allowance as an individual Schengen state, Andrew. Reciprocity is king in such matters: it may require the UK permitting > 90 days in 180 to all Schengen nationals, which is perhaps improbable. If anyone knows differently, I'd be delighted to hear of it.

(The exception, of course, is that pre-Schengen treaty agreements are often still honoured.)

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

I have a friend in Crete who has been refused medical access in the UK because they are also registered to a GP in Greece, things are getting tighter (Tony, Sue En Route)

I know of that too and the full story is more complex than that. BTW, I think it ungenerous to name people and the boat on here (especially when you get the names wrong).

For those receiving a UK state pension the wise option is to apply to the DWP for an S1 form, you take that to the EFKA (formerly IKA) office here and they give you a Greek EFKA book (paid for by the NHS). The health cover you then get is exactly the same as the EHIC would get you here, plus a range of discounts on drugs and the like. The letter from the DWP that accompanies the S1 forms makes it very clear that should you return to the UK on a short visit you will be treated as ordinarily resident and entitled to normal full NHS care. Should you return to the UK permanently you simply tell the DWP and they cancel the EFKA healthcare payments in Greece.

 

[macd]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

+1 to Tony's remarks about S1. It's a no-brainer for those eligible, not least because it satisfies at no personal cost the requirement to have healthcare provisions when seeking residence. S1 is essentially a commitment by the 'home' government to underwrite ex-pat healthcare to the same degree as enjoyed by nationals of the country in question.

There's doubt that S1 and EHIC for UK nationals will survive Brexit (especially as no-one knows what type of Brexit will come to pass). This EU document states that both would lapse in the event of a no-deal exit: https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/brexit_files/info_site/travelling.pdf
The same document contains info on driving licences, car insurance and a great deal else. (It seems I may need a green card and international driving permit in the UK...:ambivalence

However bad it is, as (IIRC) Tony himself reported a few weeks ago, HMG is enacting legislation to enable funding for future European healthcare. So, in the longer term, there may be a return to something like the present set-up. Even a no-deal Brexit does not bar the countries involved from making mutual arrangements in future.

 

[One A.]

Re: A 3 year visa for €7?

I know of that too and the full story is more complex than that. BTW, I think it ungenerous to name people and the boat on here (especially when you get the names wrong).

For those receiving a UK state pension the wise option is to apply to the DWP for an S1 form, you take that to the EFKA (formerly IKA) office here and they give you a Greek EFKA book (paid for by the NHS). The health cover you then get is exactly the same as the EHIC would get you here, plus a range of discounts on drugs and the like. The letter from the DWP that accompanies the S1 forms makes it very clear that should you return to the UK on a short visit you will be treated as ordinarily resident and entitled to normal full NHS care. Should you return to the UK permanently you simply tell the DWP and they cancel the EFKA healthcare payments in Greece.

OK I will edit my post. But I do have the right boat and people, unless her husband sat with us over a beer and told us a lie, which I doubt.