UK Sailors And Expats In The EU - Run Up To Friday 29th March 2019 & Beyond?

[Besonders]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Would you care to explain the full procedure? I need to do this shortly.

It is a complicated and time consuming process
Information can be found on various government websites including the EU website. Further information can be found in Greece at any large police station greek nationality section (Take someone that speaks Greek) They will give you a full lsit of requirements in Greek and you will need to fulfil those requirements.
There are no shortcuts however in the spirit of reader to reader help{
You will at least need in your possession in Greece the following documents{
a) valid UK passport and 6 copies
b) EHIC card and 6 copies
c) Proof of income or funds in uk to support yourself for 6 months
d) Proof of address as previously discussed on this thread
e) 3 x Passport photos
f) National Insurance Number
g) Proof that you have spent sufficient time in greece, ie at least 90 days. I provided 5yrs worth of proof ( yard contracts receipts etc)
h) A friend or professional who speaks and can write in Greek as some of the application documents must be completed in written greek.
Another tip is you can only register at a police station that covers the municipal area in which you reside, so if for instance you are using a marina as your place of residence then it must be in the municipal area covered by the police station where you are making your application
Hope this helps and good luck with your application
oh and it costs 1 euro for the official stamp

 

[nortada]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

It is a complicated and time consuming process
Information can be found on various government websites including the EU website. Further information can be found in Greece at any large police station greek nationality section (Take someone that speaks Greek) They will give you a full lsit of requirements in Greek and you will need to fulfil those requirements.
There are no shortcuts however in the spirit of reader to reader help{
You will at least need in your possession in Greece the following documents{
a) valid UK passport and 6 copies
b) EHIC card and 6 copies
c) Proof of income or funds in uk to support yourself for 6 months
d) Proof of address as previously discussed on this thread
e) 3 x Passport photos
f) National Insurance Number
g) Proof that you have spent sufficient time in greece, ie at least 90 days. I provided 5yrs worth of proof ( yard contracts receipts etc)
h) A friend or professional who speaks and can write in Greek as some of the application documents must be completed in written greek.
Another tip is you can only register at a police station that covers the municipal area in which you reside, so if for instance you are using a marina as your place of residence then it must be in the municipal area covered by the police station where you are making your application.

Hope this helps and good luck with your application.

oh and it costs 1 euro for the official stamp

Not surprising but the procedure for registering in Greece appears to be very different to that in Portugal and in many ways more closely reflects the procedure to get recidency. This just highlights that despite the claim that the 27 are moving ever closer, their procedures are not!

Having now read extensively into the registration issue, it would appear that registration with the local authorities/police is a requirement for any EU citizen to remain a EU State in the Shengen Zone for longer than 90 days in 180 and for those EU citizens from those few EU countries outside Schengen, it circumnavigates the need for a visa, which would be time limiting?

It doesn’t confer residency on the visitor, therefore, it would follow that if the UK leaves the EU on 29 Mar 19, as UK citizens will no longer be citizens of the EU, then their registration in any EU state will no longer be valid and they will be subject to the Schengen Rules as they apply to other non-EU visitors; need for a visa and a maximum stay of 90 days in any 180?

Any thoughts?

As an aside that possibly would more properly be in Anything Brexit.

Not given to speculation but given the Parliamentary antics of the past few days, I am becoming increasingly convinced that the vast majority of Remainer MPs (who number the PM in their midst) have no intention of allowing the UK to leave the EU but will engineer a suitably rigged Peoples’ Vote to enable them to withdraw Art 50 and keep their gravy train firmly on the rails.

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Not surprising but the procedure for registering in Greece appears to be very different to that in Portugal and in many ways more closely reflects the procedure to get recidency.

Not only is the procedure in Greece different to that in Portugal, it's clearly different depending on where in Greece you register!

We registered in Agios Nikolas, Crete in 2012 and converted that to permanent residence earlier this year, and in neither case did we have to go through anything like the rigmarole that Besonders seems to have had. The process I posted earlier is the process that we, and a dozen or more others here have used, that's also the process that the British Ambassador to Greece outlined in the recent meeting I talked about earlier.

In the meeting with the British Ambassador to Greece she did say that they (the embassy) know of some districts where it is harder to register and/or convert that to permanent residency and that (just as with the port police) the level of understanding of the rules and/or the actual procedure does vary from location to location.

The ambassador's advice was to do your research and be sure you know what you're entitled to and what you have to do and then be polite but firm. Besonders' advice to take a Greek speaker with you is a good one.

 

[Besonders]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Not surprising but the procedure for registering in Greece appears to be very different to that in Portugal and in many ways more closely reflects the procedure to get recidency. This just highlights that despite the claim that the 27 are moving ever closer, their procedures are not!

Having now read extensively into the registration issue, it would appear that registration with the local authorities/police is a requirement for any EU citizen to remain a EU State in the Shengen Zone for longer than 90 days in 180 and for those EU citizens from those few EU countries outside Schengen, it circumnavigates the need for a visa, which would be time limiting?

It doesn’t confer residency on the visitor, therefore, it would follow that if the UK leaves the EU on 29 Mar 19, as UK citizens will no longer be citizens of the EU, then their registration in any EU state will no longer be valid and they will be subject to the Schengen Rules as they apply to other non-EU visitors; need for a visa and a maximum stay of 90 days in any 180?

Any thoughts?

As an aside that possibly would more properly be in Anything Brexit.

Not given to speculation but given the Parliamentary antics of the past few days, I am becoming increasingly convinced that the vast majority of Remainer MPs (who number the PM in their midst) have no intention of allowing the UK to leave the EU but will engineer a suitably rigged Peoples’ Vote to enable them to withdraw Art 50 and keep their gravy train firmly on the rails.

Nortada,
just a reply in relation to the any thoughts part of the question:
I understand that the requirement to register after 90 days is a different requirement to applying for temporary or permanet residence.
I did the 90 day thing and it was a single sheet of paper with a declaration that I had been in the country more than 90 days. No other documentation required and a quick look at my passport followed by an entry in the Police station log. This is not an application for residency permanent or temporary more a legal requirement.

An application for residency as an EU national is a right. A non EU national could still apply via the same or similar process but it is not a right
My personal application was successful and is temporary with a view to permanence, (permanence only being a time related issue) it has an open ended expiry date and upon issue it was explained that residence is basically irrevocable unless convictred of serious criminal offences or harmed the country of Greece. .
To summarise my point: The residence process is open to all nationalities but is a right afforded to EU nationals. The process may be more stringent for non EU nationals but once completed you are in a process which cannot keasily be revoked by the authorities. I do not think Brexit will affect those already in possesion of a residence card but as we continue after 29 March 2019 it may become much more difficult to obtain

PS: I agree and think you may be correct with your views on the current state of the Brexit or non Brexit situation

 

[Graham376]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

.......To summarise my point: The residence process is open to all nationalities but is a right afforded to EU nationals. The process may be more stringent for non EU nationals but once completed you are in a process which cannot keasily be revoked by the authorities. I do not think Brexit will affect those already in possesion of a residence card but as we continue after 29 March 2019 it may become much more difficult to obtain.

PS: I agree and think you may be correct with your views on the current state of the Brexit or non Brexit situation

My Portuguese permanent residence card states on the front "Citizen of the EU" which of course was correct when issued and still is at the moment. IF we leave the EU (and it wouldn't surprise me if we don't) I will no longer be a citizen but doubt if it will create a problem. However, those who just hold local authority issued 5 year residence now, will not be EU citizens if/when they apply for permanent status in the future. No idea how they will then be treated.

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

My Portuguese permanent residence card states on the front "Citizen of the EU" which of course was correct when issued and still is at the moment. IF we leave the EU (and it wouldn't surprise me if we don't) I will no longer be a citizen but doubt if it will create a problem. However, those who just hold local authority issued 5 year residence now, will not be EU citizens if/when they apply for permanent status in the future. No idea how they will then be treated.

The Greek permanent residence document has the same wording. AFAIK the 'automatic permanent residence after 5 years' is an EU thing and you're right that there may be some uncertainty after Brexit. IMO however, all those who are already resident in another EU country and who have obeyed the rules and obtained the right documentation have little to fear.

 

[nortada]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

The Greek permanent residence document has the same wording. AFAIK the 'automatic permanent residence after 5 years' is an EU thing and you're right that there may be some uncertainty after Brexit. IMO however, all those who are already resident in another EU country and who have obeyed the rules and obtained the right documentation have little to fear.

Agree

Currently we are seeing an increasing number of Brits registering and they are being led to believe that this should resolve any issues should Brexit happen.

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Currently we are seeing an increasing number of Brits registering and they are being led to believe that this should resolve any issues should Brexit happen.

That was the advice and opinion of the ambassador in the meeting we had here.

Her personal opinion was that everyone who wants to stay (in Greece) should register before the end of March. If there is a Brexit deal (any deal) then that will be enough to guarantee that you can continue to stay afterwards. It's only if there is a no-deal that she wasn't able to offer a guarantee, but she did believe that even in that case all those who have registered will almost certainly be able to stay.

Greece at least won't want to loose their British ex-pats, the local mayor in his introduction to the meeting said as much. The important thing, according to the ambassador, was to ensure that you (British citizens) have 'followed the existing EU rules' - and that means registering.

 

[greeny]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

That was the advice and opinion of the ambassador in the meeting we had here.

Her personal opinion was that everyone who wants to stay (in Greece) should register before the end of March. If there is a Brexit deal (any deal) then that will be enough to guarantee that you can continue to stay afterwards. It's only if there is a no-deal that she wasn't able to offer a guarantee, but she did believe that even in that case all those who have registered will almost certainly be able to stay.

Greece at least won't want to loose their British ex-pats, the local mayor in his introduction to the meeting said as much. The important thing, according to the ambassador, was to ensure that you (British citizens) have 'followed the existing EU rules' - and that means registering.

This is pretty much the way I see it here in Portugal. I also doubt that the Portuguese Finance department are going to refuse my income tax submission and payment after March 29th 2019 and tell me and thousands of others to pay it to UK HMRC. Although it is Portugal, who knows.

 

[Graham376]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

This is pretty much the way I see it here in Portugal. I also doubt that the Portuguese Finance department are going to refuse my income tax submission and payment after March 29th 2019 and tell me and thousands of others to pay it to UK HMRC. Although it is Portugal, who knows.

The Portuguese minister for tourism was interviewed on UK TV news a few days ago and was very positive they don't want anything to change as we have been friends from way before the EU.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Most European countries have fairly simple criteria for obtain residency which may or may not start with a period of temporary residency. Basically you must be self supporting, not a burden on the country and free of criminal record. Brexit will not change those criteria unless perhaps the UK chooses to exclude foreign nationals from the UK that meet similar requirements. These bipartite arrangements have been in place for decades. All Brexit will do is to class UK citizens as 3rd country citizens and people will just have to follow the path that many others do if they wish to reside in EU countries. Those that have the EU citizen resident card in EU countries will have to change it and reregister meeting the requirements of each country for 3rd country immigrants. It really is nothing to get worked up about. People may have problems if the bipartite health cover that currently exists for retirees is changed or withdrawn but there again if they can afford to take out health insurance they will not. But I expect such agreements to remain in place come what may.

 

[nortada]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Most European countries have fairly simple criteria for obtain residency which may or may not start with a period of temporary residency. Basically you must be self supporting, not a burden on the country and free of criminal record. Brexit will not change those criteria unless perhaps the UK chooses to exclude foreign nationals from the UK that meet similar requirements. These bipartite arrangements have been in place for decades. All Brexit will do is to class UK citizens as 3rd country citizens and people will just have to follow the path that many others do if they wish to reside in EU countries. Those that have the EU citizen resident card in EU countries will have to change it and re-register meeting the requirements of each country for 3rd country immigrants. It really is nothing to get worked up about. People may have problems if the bipartite health cover that currently exists for retirees is changed or withdrawn but there again if they can afford to take out health insurance they will not. But I expect such agreements to remain in place come what may.

Not the advice we are getting.

We are led to believe that existing registration will continue, unchanged, after Brexit - if it ever happens!

 

[macd]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

All Brexit will do is to class UK citizens as 3rd country citizens and people will just have to follow the path that many others do if they wish to reside in EU countries.

As Nortada wrote, that's not the case in the short term. In both the 'divorce' agreement reached a year ago, and the deal now on the table, UK nationals will enjoy full freedom of movement throughout any transitional period. Any longer-term residency rights acquired during that time will last indefinitely (subject, I think, to no continuous absences of more than five years).

In the case of 'no deal', I daresay you'll be right.

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Most European countries have fairly simple criteria for obtain residency which may or may not start with a period of temporary residency. Basically you must be self supporting, not a burden on the country and free of criminal record. Brexit will not change those criteria unless perhaps the UK chooses to exclude foreign nationals from the UK that meet similar requirements. These bipartite arrangements have been in place for decades. All Brexit will do is to class UK citizens as 3rd country citizens and people will just have to follow the path that many others do if they wish to reside in EU countries. Those that have the EU citizen resident card in EU countries will have to change it and reregister meeting the requirements of each country for 3rd country immigrants. It really is nothing to get worked up about. People may have problems if the bipartite health cover that currently exists for retirees is changed or withdrawn but there again if they can afford to take out health insurance they will not. But I expect such agreements to remain in place come what may.

This is pure supposition on your part, even though you present it as fact. This is definitely not what the British ambassador to Greece, who is supposed to know what she's talking about, was saying at the recent meeting with her.

From what she was saying there are two known facts...

1. UK citizens staying in another EU country for more than 90 days must register (it's EU law).

2. In the event of any kind of deal being agreed, UK citizens who have already registered in Greece (but probably elsewhere in the EU as well) will retain the same rights of residence that they enjoy as EU citizens now. Nothing will change.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

This is pure supposition on your part, even though you present it as fact. This is definitely not what the British ambassador to Greece, who is supposed to know what she's talking about, was saying at the recent meeting with her.

From what she was saying there are two known facts...

1. UK citizens staying in another EU country for more than 90 days must register (it's EU law).

2. In the event of any kind of deal being agreed, UK citizens who have already registered in Greece (but probably elsewhere in the EU as well) will retain the same rights of residence that they enjoy as EU citizens now. Nothing will change.

Where did I say different to that?
My "superstitions" were on the basis of Brexit when the UK would be out of the EU and UK citizens would be 3rd country status. Their EU residents card at the least would need to be changed but as the criteria for EU and 3rd country residential status is often different there may be more to it than just changing cards.
It is all superstition even from the Ambassador as she will not know what is going to happen over the next 15 weeks because no one does at the moment.

 

[Tony Cross]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Where did I say different to that?

My issue is that you are stating opinions as though they were facts. Here for example...

All Brexit will do is to class UK citizens as 3rd country citizens and people will just have to follow the path that many others do if they wish to reside in EU countries.

...and the ambassador (who should know) said that the citizen's rights already agreed as part of any deal does not classify UK citizens in the same way that other 3rd country's citizens are treated.

You also said...

Those that have the EU citizen resident card in EU countries will have to change it and reregister meeting the requirements of each country for 3rd country immigrants.

...and that's not true either, as long as there is a deal, for the reason I gave above. The ambassador was clear that, if there is any kind of deal, as long as UK citizens in Greece are registered before March they will have to do nothing else post-Brexit.

It is all superstition even from the Ambassador as she will not know what is going to happen over the next 15 weeks because no one does at the moment.

The ambassador didn't say she was privy to the detail of the agreed citizen's rights that will form part of any deal, but she must know more detail than we do - otherwise there would be no point in the Q&A meetings she's having all over Greece in the run-up to March.

You're perfectly entitled to suspect otherwise and to suggest that things might well be different, my beef was that you stated your opinions as facts, and they weren't.

 

[jordanbasset]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Genuine question, was the ambassador saying if there is any kind of deal that freedom of movement for EU/UK citizens would be the same as it was before we left

 

[nortada]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Genuine question, was the ambassador saying if there is any kind of deal that freedom of movement for EU/UK citizens would be the same as it was before we left

This is what is reported in the Portuguese Press, quoting Portuguese Government sources and stated by the British Ambassador to Portugal.

An interesting observation the British Ambassador to Greece's statement is almost exactly the same as that made by the British Ambassador to Portugal, which suggests that they are quoting from a common communique?

The British PM has also stated the same sentiment that, whatever the outcome of Brexit, the status and privileges of EU and UK expats in either area, who are legally registered in that country will not change.

Some may think I am being pedantic but if you plan to be in the EU, long term, it is important to register in your country of choice before 29th March as, after the UK leaves the EU, the opportunity to register as a EU citizen may no longer exist.

 

[macd]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

Genuine question, was the ambassador saying if there is any kind of deal that freedom of movement for EU/UK citizens would be the same as it was before we left

I wasn't there so have no idea what the ambassador said. But, transparently, FOM for UK citizens would continue only so long as it did for EU27 nationals, which is what is agreed for the transition period. When one stops, so will the other. Reciprocity is king.

 

[nortada]

Re: France - Burgundy - British Ambassador

I wasn't there so have no idea what the ambassador said. But, transparently, FOM for UK citizens would continue only so long as it did for EU27 nationals, which is what is agreed for the transition period. When one stops, so will the other. Reciprocity is king.

This thread has sought to avoid speculation and concentrate on fact.

Unfortunately, facts are few and far between but it is my understanding that Theresa May has stated unequivocally, on more than one occasion, that whatever the outcome of Brexit, the status and privileges of EU and UK expats in either area, who are legally registered in that country will not change.

As it would be in the UK's best interests, on this issue, the UK would act unilaterally.

Reciprocity would just reinforce the situation..

Hopefully all will become a bit clearer in the very near future.