Torqueedo new Travel outboards for daysailing

[Marceline]

really appreciated and thank you for your replies

The previous owners did have a nice little 20watt rigid solar fixed over the engine well that trickle charges the house lead acid battery and that seems to work fine for our limited 12volt needs.

There is some space at the front of the mast where a flexable panel could go, and tbh we thought of having one of those bluetti/jackery 1kw portable powerbanks with inbuilt solar inverter so we could have that as an extra top up and if we got a 2nd battery for the Torqueedo we could be swapping those and recharging them as we went which could give us a little more breathing space if we went for a weekend sail (guess that'd be around 4kw power all together). With that option we could take them all home at the end of the day and top them all up

We'd love a solar arch as well at the back but tbh I think our budget is not going to stretch that far for a while but as a phase two and more house battery capacity I guess that could be another help, especially with trickle charging to top them up during the week. That could work well if we went for the ePropulsion Navy/48volt E series route, but tbh I think our budget would struggle with that and a nice solar arch setup.

Another option is - we just wait a little more and see what comes on the market and keep on running scenarios with our petrol outboard to see how we fair with the various conditions/navigation challenges around the island. But hopefully we'll figure something out that works for us and just want to say many thanks to everyone who offered advice and suggestions - its always very appreciated and a big help

 

[Bouba]

Going electric is very expensive, and when it needs repair can be eye wateringly expensive.....the upside is it’s wonderful quietness, effortless starting....and most of all, it’s just so nice to get petrol off your boat and out of the back of your car

 

[Marceline]

yes - just being on our tender going out to the mooring is so lovely and quiet. We did have an issue with our ePropulsion connectors but tbh that was my fault as I wasn't using contact spray to clean them - since then it's been fine

Our's is a long shaft epropulsion so while not ideal for a dinghy, it's 'lite' enough that I can lift it up and angle it so the prop is still in the water as we get close to shore and just have the throttle on very low - not ideal but managable. But its a big(ish) dinghy so we could always row those last few metres if the Torqueedo is too heavy to do that

it does seem to sit ok in the well and with our simulations/evaluations I'll try it at slack water and see how we do with just 1kw

 

[Bouba]

yes - just being on our tender going out to the mooring is so lovely and quiet. We did have an issue with our ePropulsion connectors but tbh that was my fault as I wasn't using contact spray to clean them - since then it's been fine

Our's is a long shaft epropulsion so while not ideal for a dinghy, it's 'lite' enough that I can lift it up and angle it so the prop is still in the water as we get close to shore and just have the throttle on very low - not ideal but managable. But its a big(ish) dinghy so we could always row those last few metres if the Torqueedo is too heavy to do that

On my dingy I added a few inches of height to the transom ....after that it was perfect

 

[Marceline]

oh wow - that's a nice idea thanks

 

[ridgy]

Could I ask - for the scenarios you're mentioning eg: going against wind from Puffin to Menai even with the tide, would a 5hp be nearly as similar as a 6hp ? Just as the Torqueedo is supposed to be similar to a '5hp'

Also is tacking into the wind motorsailing a possible to help with just jib or mainsail up (or is this when the wind is stronger as you mentioned with it funnelled up the Strait) ?

ps -thats amazing you've rowed through The Swellies !!

Yes motorsailing obviously helps and is preferable thought the straits can be narrow of course for tacking. Even worse than too much wind is no wind, especially around there where you often have to be in a certain place at a given time for the tide. If you study Windy.com around Anglesey, even when there is a reasonable breeze forecast at the south of the island there can be nothing on the other side.

The question of 5 or 6hp is not the right question, I'm sure it works in that regard. I have another boat, a bit smaller than yours for racing. 22' and weighs 950kg and when on lakes e.g. Windermere I have a cheap Bison 65 that pushes it along quite nicely so I do get the attraction of electric.

The question is the range. I will soon be joining you in the straits with boat 2 of 3, a small cat sporting a new Tohatsu 6 and I can tell you for nothing that I won't leave the mooring without a full 12l tank plus a 5l reserve. Even if the wind is good, I always like to have enough fuel to motor the entire journey plus extra. That's my personal preference based on experience as there are enough things to worry about going to sea without the possibility of being stranded.

The joy of Anglesey is not to be found in the straits. That's mostly the worst bit, hardly anywhere to stop and bound to go one way or the other. Even if a range of 6 miles is ok this year, as you get more confident you will hopefully want to explore some of the island, challenge yourself to a circumnavigation of it perhaps. Except you won't be able to with that engine.

Then resale...say you sell the boat in 4 years. A 4 year old outboard is a well understood and attractive thing at this level of boat. The electric gadget...not so much. It's likely that next buyer will value it at 0 and budget for a real engine and if you've bought the boat that I think you have for anywhere near the asking price then there might be some pain coming anyway.

The costs of small outboard engine servicing is certainly disproportionate to their value so learning to do it yourself is best.

Anyway, I'll be around there from next month if you want to have a go with a new engine before making your mind up.

 

[Marceline]

thanks ever so much for the advice Ridgy - really appreciated

 

[nestawayboats]

This is a subject we are keenly researching. A 2 ton fairly racy trimaran, could up our solar output to 400w. Currently running a Honda 15 outboard, still in good nick so not in a rush. We have no shore power. But then, we very rarely motor any distance. Normally it’s from the mooring, through the bridge and the marina, dodge the ferry and put the sails up. Bucklers Hard is probably the toughest challenge, you really don’t want to sail a DF 920 though moorings, with other traffic. The locals would die of heart failure, my wife would be very silent and white as a sheet. But, the boat is easily driven, and the weight not all being hung from the transom would be great. Integration with new LiPO4 house batteries is part of the plan. Would the 6kw ones push us along ok?.

At 2 tons, and for the purposes you describe, a 3kW motor would be enough... but as the price difference is not that significant, in the context of total system cost, then a lot of people buy the 6kW. You can use either of the dominant makes - ePropulsion and Torqeedo - with other-make batteries but lose some communication functionality and features such as regenerative charging (which has the potential to work well at Dragonfly speeds).

Ian, Nestaway Boats

 

[Mark-1]

regenerative charging

I didn't know that was a thing, what a superb feature. Would a knot or two of tide on a mooring be enough?

 

[Bouba]

At 2 tons, and for the purposes you describe, a 3kW motor would be enough... but as the price difference is not that significant, in the context of total system cost, then a lot of people buy the 6kW. You can use either of the dominant makes - ePropulsion and Torqeedo - with other-make batteries but lose some communication functionality and features such as regenerative charging (which has the potential to work well at Dragonfly speeds).

Ian, Nestaway Boats

I didn’t realize that it regenerates....on my Tesla that is significant source of power.....so you leave the propeller dragging in the water ?....if the day was windy enough, could you turn the Torqeedo upside down and let the prop catch the wind

 

[Marceline]

I didn't know that was a thing, what a superb feature. Would a knot or two of tide on a mooring be enough?

sadly not on it's own - I think the ePropulsion starts to regen above 4 knots but had heard it's not too much - it's more 6 knots where it starts to do better and I think our hull spead is 7knots. But for a cat/trimaran I think it could be a nice extra as it gets stronger towards 10knots

Shame, as having something trickle charge over a week at 2-3 knots would be so useful on our mooring on the Strait

 

[Marceline]

I'd just been thinking about the scenarios going further afield and know this sounds backtofront - but I wonder if for longer voyages I borrow/get a small 2nd hand petrol generator like those Hondas like Chiaras' has ? If I've about 4kw portable onboard electric capacity (two Torqueedo Travel batteries and a Jackary solar backup) maybe in the future having a small petrol gen backup for occasional longer trips could be the answer ? So daysailing I'd hopefully have enough capacity, and longer trips always got a gen backup just incase ?

 

[Bouba]

Those small generators are noisy above idle...really noisy....and even though this new model of Torqueedo charges quicker than the old one...it’s still going to be for hours on charge.
A water cooled four stroke outboard would be quieter

 

[Marceline]

ah - that sounds like it'd only really work then if we had somewhere to anchor (and not near others) - ok, thanks for that advice too Bouba

 

[nestawayboats]

I didn't know that was a thing, what a superb feature. Would a knot or two of tide on a mooring be enough?

As Marceline says, no, it's really only useful from 6 knots plus. And you have to bear in mind that it creates drag (you can't get something for nothing!), and the amount of drag is the same regardless of boat size, so that drag has proportionately more effect on smaller boats (which are less likely to get to 6 knots in the first place). But great potential for multihulls yes.

 

[Mark-1]

I'd just been thinking about the scenarios going further afield and know this sounds backtofront - but I wonder if for longer voyages I borrow/get a small 2nd hand petrol generator like those Hondas like Chiaras' has ? If I've about 4kw portable onboard electric capacity (two Torqueedo Travel batteries and a Jackary solar backup) maybe in the future having a small petrol gen backup for occasional longer trips could be the answer ? So daysailing I'd hopefully have enough capacity, and longer trips always got a gen backup just incase ?

I've pondered a suitcase charger, but I figure if I'm going to have an ICE on board to charge my outboard I might as well have an ICE outboard.

 

[Tranona]

I'd just been thinking about the scenarios going further afield and know this sounds backtofront - but I wonder if for longer voyages I borrow/get a small 2nd hand petrol generator like those Hondas like Chiaras' has ? If I've about 4kw portable onboard electric capacity (two Torqueedo Travel batteries and a Jackary solar backup) maybe in the future having a small petrol gen backup for occasional longer trips could be the answer ? So daysailing I'd hopefully have enough capacity, and longer trips always got a gen backup just incase ?

A petrol generator is the last thing you want on a small yacht! As many have identified the major drawback to electric is range because of the poor energy density of batteries compared with diesel or petrol. Electric is increasingly viable at dinghy level or small yachts provided you just want to move short distances at low speeds. There is nothing new about the low power requirements at low (sub 5 knots) speeds - my 5.5 ton yacht achieves 5 knots with about 7kw. If you look further up the size scale you will find that the most successful "electric" boats are actually diesel electric using either parallel or serial hybrids. Your electric plus a generator is effectively a home brewed hybrid.

The reality is that electric is in no way an effective substitute for ICE as an auxiliary on a small yacht. It is an alternative with its own characteristics and limitations. Increasing numbers of people can live within those limitations - for example on freshwater lakes, marina based day sailers but once you want to become independent of mains charging and away for more than a day in and out of your berth in sailing locations where you experience a range of conditions that need power rather than sail it is still not viable. BTW regeneration is a red herring for 2 reasons, first it requires constant speeds of at least 6 knots to get anything meaningful second a fixed propeller is for propulsion and no good for generation. Viable regenerators are available for example from Oceanvolt but the cost is high as it really only starts to become viable with cruising boats of 45'+ or lightweight flyers that can maintain 6 knots or more for extended periods. As noted a Dragonfly would be a suitable candidate for a regenerating electric pod drive.

 

[Marceline]

thanks so much Tranona and also really good adivce.

I guess for what we want to do - which is mainly day/weekend sailing in fair weather this could work for us - tbh we've not got autopilot either so planning long voyages/risk of bad weather is going to have other concerns apart from propulsion. Tbh even if we did get the electric option and wanted to go further (we'd love to eventually get to Isle of Man etc) we'd still have our petrol 6hp Tohatsu that we could bring out of retirement, and keeping it out of the water for most of the season and serviced hopefully would mean it could last a little longer.

So.... yeh - lots of food for thought there and we'll do as suggest and go slowly and figure out viability with what we've got. But if its looking viable - I really do love the idea of the next five or so years not having to deal with petrol and quiet motor/sailing

I'll post here below how we get on in the coming weeks/months

 

[Bouba]

Is there nowhere you can add more solar...a fold up panel that lays across your dingy for example?

 

[Marceline]

thanks Bouba - it's definately something we can try - we don't have davits so we leave our dinghy for the most on the mooring ball, but I think the front of the mast could be a good place for a flexi panel and either up our current solar processing inverter, or go for a small Jackery. Tbh I'd been looking at the Ecoflow Delta 2 - about £900 for a 1kw plus inverter thats self contained and portable, and can add further storage banks up to 3kw in the future, so something like that with trickle charge could be a nice extra capacity that we could grow - especially if we got a solar arch

But in the mid term, like you suggest if we find a place we could get out and hang a small fold up panel that also could give us some nice extra if we're at anchor on nice summers day if we're out for a weekend