Time for me to get another boat!

[petem]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Great plan pete
My original syndicate was just done with mby classifieds
I think in the add you're stating too many rules. Don't state the rules for allocating weeks, and anyway the system you propose looks longwinded. We used to just rotate the bank hols and for rest of year we allocated every third week then each owner had his currency that he could swap with others. No-one ever used the weeks they got allocated because it was merely a currency
Also I don't think you should stipulate SCM then Baldricks. Too complex. Stop messing around and say it is going to baldricks, end of. If I read that ad wanting a share as I did back in 1999, I'd right you off as too much of a rule maker. Just saying it as I see it - best of luck

Thanks JFM, that's good feedback. The rules thing is hard to get right, I don't want loads of rules but I think people would want something that is run properly and have some structure (particularly if things go pear shaped). There certainly won't be loads of laminated rules everywhere on the boat - how ghastly would that be? But as you've said before, if you find the right people to share with then rules are largely unnecessary.

Regarding allocation of weeks, I'm not too bothered about using the things during the school holiday, I'd prefer to go when it's quieter and flights are cheaper. You're currency observation is spot on too.

Incidentally how did you get a share in your old Phantom. Did you buy from an existing syndicate or sole owner or was it a new syndicate?

 

[jfm]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Rules are fine but don't clutter the ad with them!
My syndicate folks were in a syndicate of 3 with carver 39. One wanted out and two wanted upgrade, so the two advertised in mby for a new third partner which was me. They got several applications- was 1999. They had identified a dealer stock 50 hour phantom 42 but not bought it. When I shook hands we immediately bought it together. They traded the carver iirc but we got the pricing of that right. They produced a long legal agreement for me done by a useless lawyer in Manchester and I told them no, and we did a much simpler agreement but covering all the basics. We then traded to sq58 in 2004 and switched from thirds to 50-25-25. They were great guys and it was fun.
They had already chosen the phantom 42 so we never had much debate about what to buy. Folks who didn't want that boat were therefore automatically filtered out. Folks who did (me) were happy because there was no need to waste time debating what to buy. That done deal ness was a good thing IMHO. Which is why you should just say Mallorca in your ad, IMHO.

 

[petem]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Thanks, I'll strip the ad back at the weekend. A bit of a long shot but do you still have a copy of your agreement?

 

[jfm]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Doubt it but will look. On another pc in office I think. Might have the s58 one. It was nothing special

 

[petem]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Pete, I may be a little off piste, but if you area able to buy an Az39 for £75k, I would expect you will need to budget another £10k-£20k for fettle, and refurb, especially is you are sharing the boat. I would think that a boat sharer will have little interest or expectation in spending their precious time share refurbing the boat themselves, expecting to arrive and drive. While I bought in the UK, I spent quite a bit more than this on my boat purchase, and on getting her to a condition that we are happy with. You will be remote, so expect to pay a local techie to do the bits and pieces you would normally do yourself. I think you might want another think about the budget.

Sorry Paul, only just seen your reply. Coincidentally I was lying in bed thinking the same thing. There is this boat http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1999/Azimut-39-Fly-2912000/Spain#.VzVvGRko9Ah for sale in Mallorca. Whilst he will take an offer there is bound to be purchase costs and some cash required to get the thing up to my spec. So realistically I need someone to bring £30k to the party. I know there are cheaper 39's in the Med but I'd much rather buy a British flagged boat even if it meant paying a small premium.

Another point I was trying to make in the ad would be that the other sharers wouldn't have the hassle of running the boat. I'm time rich and would enjoy organizing that myself. They just need to pump a few quid in at the start of each year.

 

[julians]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

There is this boat http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1999/Azimut-39-Fly-2912000/Spain#.VzVvGRko9Ah for sale in Mallorca.

That boat is in port adriano where I keep my boat. Let me know if you want me to pop over and have look around and take any exterior photo's etc for you/ I'm next out there over the bank holiday weekend at the end of the month.

I see it coming and going every now and again, so I think its getting used still, ie its not just sitting there unused.

 

[petem]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

That boat is in port adriano where I keep my boat. Let me know if you want me to pop over and have look around and take any exterior photo's etc for you/ I'm next out there over the bank holiday weekend at the end of the month.

I see it coming and going every now and again, so I think its getting used still, ie its not just sitting there unused.

That's good to know. Exterior pics might come in handy but I wouldn't want to bother the broker at this stage. If you bump into the owner feel free to let him know that I have my eye on his boat for a syndicate purchase.

 

[benjenbav]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Pete, I read your comments about a sharing agreement last night and wondered if what you really wanted was for you to have 100% ownership and the others to pay to turn up when arranged, find a fully prepared boat, use it and return it.

If so, I can think of various organisations that provide this sort of "arrive and drive" arrangement. One, in the world of sportscars is: http://ffcorse.com/ Website explains what they offer without quite going so far as to give you a template contract.

In the time-honoured way I should mention that I know of them and have dealt with them but have no financial interest in their business.

 

[petem]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Pete, I read your comments about a sharing agreement last night and wondered if what you really wanted was for you to have 100% ownership and the others to pay to turn up when arranged, find a fully prepared boat, use it and return it. And besides, I don't have the funds to buy a whole boat!

If so, I can think of various organisations that provide this sort of "arrive and drive" arrangement. One, in the world of sportscars is: http://ffcorse.com/ Website explains what they offer without quite going so far as to give you a template contract.

In the time-honoured way I should mention that I know of them and have dealt with them but have no financial interest in their business.

Thanks BJB. Im not convinced that model works for boats, the issue being the detection of damage unless you lift and check the boat after every rental. Of course the same is true for any bare boat charter.

 

[benjenbav]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

I wasn't thinking of day rental so much as a long term interest more like a time share but without ownership.

Bit like this:

A owns £150k boat. Maintains and commissions it for use. Gets to use it 15/52 weeks.

X, Y and Z each pays £25k (plus an annual fee, to cover running costs) to get use of a fully prepped boat for 10/52 weeks.


That way you (if you are A) get to control the maintenance regime and deal with depreciation and replacement and so on.

If I were minded to do something similar (which I am not, not being a great sharer of things), in X, Y or Z's shoes I would much rather not own it and get the benefits of usage, in line with the old maxim: if it flies, floats...etc.

 

[petem]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

I wasn't thinking of day rental so much as a long term interest more like a time share but without ownership.

Bit like this:

A owns £150k boat. Maintains and commissions it for use. Gets to use it 15/52 weeks.

X, Y and Z each pays £25k (plus an annual fee, to cover running costs) to get use of a fully prepped boat for 10/52 weeks.


That way you (if you are A) get to control the maintenance regime and deal with depreciation and replacement and so on.

If I were minded to do something similar (which I am not, not being a great sharer of things), in X, Y or Z's shoes I would much rather not own it and get the benefits of usage, in line with the old maxim: if it flies, floats...etc.

Ah ok, better understood now will take a better look at your link over the weekend.

 

[itspaul]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Sorry Paul, only just seen your reply. Coincidentally I was lying in bed thinking the same thing. There is this boat http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1999/Azimut-39-Fly-2912000/Spain#.VzVvGRko9Ah for sale in Mallorca.

I looked at this boat when we were out there in December it's in nice condition it has a pair of caterpillars in it if I remember correctly but strangely no Bimini , I thought the flybridge on these was a little dissapointing but apart from that I nice boat

 

[Whitelighter]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

I looked at this boat when we were out there in December it's in nice condition it has a pair of caterpillars in it if I remember correctly but strangely no Bimini , I thought the flybridge on these was a little dissapointing but apart from that I nice boat

Cats were standard fit for the azimut range at that time.
Flybridge is typical med where a large % is given over to floor sunbathing. I have the same issue on the ferretti

 

[petem]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

I looked at this boat when we were out there in December it's in nice condition it has a pair of caterpillars in it if I remember correctly but strangely no Bimini, I thought the flybridge on these was a little disappointing but apart from that I nice boat

Thanks Paul. No Bimini is a bit of a shame so 'd have to factor one into the buying costs, what do folk reckon, £2k?

Regarding the flybridge, some seating, a grill and a table would be better but beggars can't be choosers and some teak and a small coffee table can make the area a pleasant place to sit for a sundowner....

Incidentally, I particularly like what the owner of a sister vessel has done in the cockpit here....

Alternatively a folding table could work well as Rafiki has on his boat.

 

[petem]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Rules are fine but don't clutter the ad with them!

Now fixed !

 

[desperatelyseeking]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Very interesting thread, thanks for the information on boatsharing as an option. I was about to sell my Cranchi CSL 27 in Sardinia because we just don't get to use it enough. Now trying my luck on the boatshare website as an alternative. I'll let you know how i get on although I'm not too hopeful given the boat is a day boat so I'll need to attract someone who owns a villa/apartment in the area and this site seems pretty UK focused.

 

[petem]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Very interesting thread, thanks for the information on boatsharing as an option. I was about to sell my Cranchi CSL 27 in Sardinia because we just don't get to use it enough. Now trying my luck on the boatshare website as an alternative. I'll let you know how i get on although I'm not too hopeful given the boat is a day boat so I'll need to attract someone who owns a villa/apartment in the area and this site seems pretty UK focused.

I'm glad you've learned something - my thread hasn't been in vain after all!

 

[rafiki_]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Your post will be enjoying an anniversary soon Pete ��

 

[petem]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

Your post will be enjoying an anniversary soon Pete ��

Well nobody can say I'm not maximising anticipation .

Seriously, with low interest rates, the £ strengthening and I suspect a few sellers starting to it panic, it could be a great time to buy. I just need a like minded person to come along for the ride.

 

[petem]

Re: Time for me to get another boat! - shared ownership

As it's been a month since my last post I thought an update was in order. I'm pleased to report that I've had a couple of people contact me with regard to my syndicate. Both are nearing retirement and fancy spending some time in the sun on a nice boat. One is an experienced boat owner having owned a variety of boats over the past 40 years. The other is a newbie, which is fine by me. The consensus is that a Phantom 40 would be a suitable boat, with one of my potential co-owners having a preference for a later D6 engined boat due to the engine being quieter and more fuel efficient (hence my separate thread on TAMD63P vs D6 motors).

From what I can gather, berthing costs would be between €11.5k and €12.5k per annum for Cala D'Or or between €3200 and €3900 for SCM. I'm fairly ambivalent about where the boat is kept and appreciate the value vs quality argument. Maybe there's a compromise where we keep the boat in Mallorca for some of the summer.

As I wasn't expecting to be back on the water this summer, I've now made other holiday plans. The other two gentlemen both have reasons for delaying a few months so I think we'll start looking in earnest in the Autumn.

With the three of us sharing, I think initial outlay will be in the order of £45-50k per share with the potential of diluting to quarters. I know of a few early UK flagged Phantom 40's that are in the £120-125k range and a later boat will obviously be a bit dearer.

So, exciting times ahead hopefully my plans will come to fruition. Hopefully I'll have something sorted out for my 50th in November.

If anyone fancies coming along for the ride, let me know.