There is certainly a shortage of good secondhand boats at present as you will see.

[Salt'n'shaken]

The search has been continuing ☺

This Catalina 400 popped up in the last couple of days and seems to fit the bill. Does anyone have any experience of these boats or comments in general? I would appreciate any advice at all.

Catalina 400 For Sale, 12.34m, 1999

I listen to Matt Rutherford's podcast and a few years back when he was doing brokerage and loads of deliveries in the US, he would talk extensively about the various boats that were common over there (often while delivering them).

He obviously see's things through the lens of an offshore sailor, but the Catalina's are designed and perfectly fine for coastal hopping, Caribbean cruising and the great lakes. Equivalent to a BenJenBav of that era.

Interestingly, him and his delivery mate Simon Edwards (who's done well over half a million miles and sailed almost every crusing boat going) rate the Jeanneau Sun Odyssey more highly when in conditions, than the other common liner built production boats. He thought it strange, as they're owned by Beneteau anyhow. They pound less in a big swell and point better apparently........

 

[mrming]

I listen to Matt Rutherford's podcast and a few years back when he was doing brokerage and loads of deliveries in the US, he would talk extensively about the various boats that were common over there (often while delivering them).

He obviously see's things through the lens of an offshore sailor, but the Catalina's are designed and perfectly fine for coastal hopping, Caribbean cruising and the great lakes. Equivalent to a BenJenBav of that era.

Interestingly, him and his delivery mate Simon Edwards (who's done well over half a million miles and sailed almost every crusing boat going) rate the Jeanneau Sun Odyssey more highly when in conditions, than the other common liner built production boats. He thought it strange, as they're owned by Beneteau anyhow. They pound less in a big swell and point better apparently........

I like a good sailing podcast as much as the next person, however this info isn’t that useful without a bit more detail. There are multiple generations of Jeanneau Sun Odyssey models of different designs and sizes. It’s therefore very unlikely that as a rule they all pound less and point better than other mainstream production boats. I’ve raced yachts for nearly 30 years in all kinds of conditions. For a cruising boat like a Sun Odyssey, pointing vs an equivalent of the same type from another brand will almost certainly be down to the quality of sails and the state of rig tune. Slamming or not depends at least partially on the hull shape which is different across different Sun Odyssey designs.

 

[smert]

The search has been continuing ☺

This Catalina 400 popped up in the last couple of days and seems to fit the bill. Does anyone have any experience of these boats or comments in general? I would appreciate any advice at all.

Catalina 400 For Sale, 12.34m, 1999

We have a '96 Catalina 34. The only issue we've had is getting genuine Catalina parts needs to be via the US, so delivery is costly and can be slow. Engine is also US made but parts are more readily available in the UK. A 7/16" spanner is useful ?.

There are very knowledgeable people in owners forums. These boats are very popular in the US.

 

[jac]

Still a shortage - have spoken to two brokers about boats where they have accepted offers within a day or two of the boat appearing on the market.

 

[Salt'n'shaken]

I like a good sailing podcast as much as the next person, however this info isn’t that useful without a bit more detail. There are multiple generations of Jeanneau Sun Odyssey models of different designs and sizes. It’s therefore very unlikely that as a rule they all pound less and point better than other mainstream production boats. I’ve raced yachts for nearly 30 years in all kinds of conditions. For a cruising boat like a Sun Odyssey, pointing vs an equivalent of the same type from another brand will almost certainly be down to the quality of sails and the state of rig tune. Slamming or not depends at least partially on the hull shape which is different across different Sun Odyssey designs.

Apologies, it was the more recent iterations he was referring to. I hadn't meant the Jeanneau info to be helpful or otherwise, I just thought it was a moderately interesting aside.

What I do find as a relatively new member to this forum is that some members get very touchy very quickly. Happy for the useful advice I get at times, that's really appreciated. But it doesn't feel like an entirely friendly place, even when not expressing one's own opinion.

It's hardly any wonder the younger generations are put off yachting on the whole.

 

[Daverw]

It can seem that way often, no different from sitting in any club house, people have strong views and happy to share them? best boat or anchors really get it going, however out on the water when things go bad, fellow sailers are second to none,

 

[Salt'n'shaken]

It can seem that way often, no different from sitting in any club house, people have strong views and happy to share them? best boat or anchors really get it going, however out on the water when things go bad, fellow sailers are second to none,

Have no doubts that if in trouble on the water, sailors come to help each other. It's exactly what I would do. The imparting of useful knowledge is also gratefully received.

It's the whole 'men of a certain age, arguing about their expensive toys' vibe that I find so unedifying and ultimately off-putting. When I compare it to my owner's association forum, the vibe on here is exactly as you said - that of a clubhouse. My experience of yacht clubs is that they're not always universally welcoming places either.

 

[Daverw]

Same with golf clubs, radio clubs and suspect many other leisure activity clubs. I heard from someone who had to sort out a fight at a model railway club that was over a model of a loco design and also ladies having a real go at each other at a knitting club

 

[Stemar]

I've had no end of useful information over the years and, I hope, imparted some, and some very generous acts. I've also enjoyed the banter. Unfortunately, it does get out of hand occasionally; if that happens, I'll leave them to it.

There are many here that I know I'd enjoy a drink with, and a very few where I'd go somewhere else if I saw their car in the pub car park. I do the same on here. There's an ignore button for the ones I really don't like but, while I have used it in the past, none of the current membership has wound me up to that point yet.

Stick around, join in the fun, wear your thickest skin for the odd ones that get personal, and don't let an idiot spoil your fun - there are loads of other threads.

 

[EOS2022]

Hjem,
I have read the entire post, and in general I do agree with all the comments, but I will give you a little of my back story, it may add value and also may not.

The journey you’re on started for me in 2007, I could only afford a little 36 Ben circa 40k, I never borrowed any money for it and sailed around the south coast and had loads of fun, but I found out very quickly the marina fees are very expensive, I moved to a more self-serving Marina ( Brixham) which I did find excellent, the YC was really good value
But it did not take long for me to realise that 36ft for a 6ft male is not big enough,

I then took the plunge and borrowed enough money to upgrade to a 49DS which I sailed for 7 years, again the costs for Marinas were very expensive 9k pa, then a house and partner came along, something had to give, unfortunately the boat got the chop. It took me 5 years to re-build my house and now it fantastic. But it soon became apparent I was missing the sailing way of life, my partner and I started searching for a new to us boat, in 2019, I looked at every boat that was available, and believe me there was a lot of fantastic boat but also some not so. My general view was not to put any deposit down, but commit to a survey, I had 3 in the UK in total, one was a pretty damming one. So only 3 k lost.

However, a trip to the med for a holiday made me look further, in 2020 when boats were overpriced, I found similar boats of the same condition, in some scenarios I found the broker will apply pressure, ( don’t be seduced by it) they are doing their job for the seller.

Then on the few days remaining, my partner decided to go shopping ( strange I know) I wondered around a well know Marina in the med, and met a gentleman who was preparing the boat for a week’s sail, I got chatting to him, ( my question was simple is it worth it having a boat in the Med) he said absolutely, the UK is wet and miserable, he also mentioned he will be selling his boat in the November of that year, ( age was his concern) I said I maybe interested, he thought ( tire kicker) however he showed me around the boat, and gave me an explanation on everything he did on the boat. I informed him I would like a further detailed look, to which he replied with, meet me tomorrow and we can take it with him for a sail, ( unofficial sea trail) the boat sailed lovely, tested what I could, and everything worked wonderfully. We anchored in the Bay, and we discussed prices we agreed a price and shook hands. ( Deal done) (no survey)what we did agree on is that we need to complete in 5 weeks and we d id, and we are the proud owners of the boat.

Over the course of the 5 weeks, he explained to me what he needed to replace repair as it was his doing, and what would need to be done in the next 12 months. Money exchange legal documentation completed. What I took away and believe firmly in, whilst I bought the boat, i invested in the owner, and his word. Whichever boat you buy, deal with the owner directly, if possible, as you soon get to know if there is anything to hide, even today, I sent him an email asking him the question. It is still in the med, ( duty paid) and we have spent over the last 2 years spent a total of 11 weeks on her, and we have not regretted it once, the uk is wonderful to sail, but expensive to maintain.

 

[Stemar]

the uk is wonderful to sail, but expensive to maintain.

It doesn't have to be. Sure, if you want all the toys and a deep water walk-ashore mooring, and don't do DIY, you'll understand the Break Out Another Thousand acronym, and you'll be doing it often, but a swinging mooring can be had in the Solent for a change from a thousand, and my drying club mooring is a fraction of that. An older boat doesn't have to be manky if she's looked after and, properly maintained - which is just as necessary on a new one, is just as seaworthy as a newer one - some would argue more so, but that discussion tends to get fractious, so I'll leave it there

 

[ridgy]

Whichever boat you buy, deal with the owner directly, if possible, as you soon get to know if there is anything to hide, even today

I would quite agree. You did well with what sounds like an honest and capable owner. There are also lots of other owners that are compulsive bullshitters and fantasists.
I looked at one recently where the owner sounded great on the phone but upon viewing the boat told a very different story.

 

[mrming]

Apologies, it was the more recent iterations he was referring to. I hadn't meant the Jeanneau info to be helpful or otherwise, I just thought it was a moderately interesting aside.

What I do find as a relatively new member to this forum is that some members get very touchy very quickly. Happy for the useful advice I get at times, that's really appreciated. But it doesn't feel like an entirely friendly place, even when not expressing one's own opinion.

It's hardly any wonder the younger generations are put off yachting on the whole.

No offence meant! The forum is a resource for information so some of us occasionally point out if something is inaccurate or incomplete. Reason being these threads hang around for 10 years plus and are very Google friendly.

 

[EOS2022]

It doesn't have to be. Sure, if you want all the toys and a deep water walk-ashore mooring, and don't do DIY, you'll understand the Break Out Another Thousand acronym, and you'll be doing it often, but a swinging mooring can be had in the Solent for a change from a thousand, and my drying club mooring is a fraction of that. An older boat doesn't have to be manky if she's looked after and, properly maintained - which is just as necessary on a new one, is just as seaworthy as a newer one - some would argue more so, but that discussion tends to get fractious, so I'll leave it there

Hi,
i do agree with you, but its finding the balance between work home and boating,, and therefore not all swing moorings are good, i was on one for a summer in Poole, but the tide coming in to get the mooring ball was Bloody hard work, new back every few weeks, also i was not fortunate enough to live near the coast, so i had to think of the simplest route to get to her, i did do all my own DIY, but you know when you forget something to buy, you have to jump in the dingy and ......! as i said the uk is lovely but.

 

[TwoFish]

The forum is a resource for information so some of us occasionally point out if something is inaccurate or incomplete. Reason being these threads hang around for 10 years plus and are very Google friendly.

And consequently is a fabulous resource for those of us new to big boaty stuff. Keep it up gents. We used to have something similar in the windsurfing world, but sadly the demise of the magazine hosting it led to the 'burning of the library'. Fortunately that hasn't happened here and so I've been able to browse through a treasure trove of information, opinion and (sometimes) entertainment.

 

[ashtead]

I have been on the forum a few years and I do find after a while that you tend to be able rate the advice and what one might term the SME on specific areas. Some contributors do perhaps lack the softer skills of delivery but it’s worth looking beyond that initial impression . There are some wise souls out there who have good advice on say reliable suppliers or how you might address an issue,it’s just a case of being able to gain that understanding as contributors have no star rating but the style in which they write and reading more of their posts helps to adds context to their views. I hope that the OP preserves though finds the pearls amongst us forumites. I should say that the forumites I have met have been most pleasant.

 

[DoubleEnder]

The Catalina will certainly be comfortable to live aboard, in my experience American yachts are spacious and well fitted with lockers and furniture that work. It might be worth looking at one of the American forums for views on this model’s particular strengths and weaknesses. Americans tend to use this style of boat for coastal and Caribbean sailing. The bluewater lot favour much heavier , long keel designs. But there no reason why a decent AWB shouldn’t do ocean passages if it’s properly prepared

 

[salad]

Apologies, it was the more recent iterations he was referring to. I hadn't meant the Jeanneau info to be helpful or otherwise, I just thought it was a moderately interesting aside.

What I do find as a relatively new member to this forum is that some members get very touchy very quickly. Happy for the useful advice I get at times, that's really appreciated. But it doesn't feel like an entirely friendly place, even when not expressing one's own opinion.

It's hardly any wonder the younger generations are put off yachting on the whole.

What you have to understand is that those of us that tend to use forums are older, somewhat grumpy and often behind the times. We usually have something to moan about, not without good reason, and it can come across in how we post, particularly if we happen to be knowledgeable about something, which admittedly for me, isn't yachting. I've been using the internet since about 1988, which is before forums even existed and theres one thing that I can assure you. The internet will bring out the worst in people, but also the best. Also, it's incredibly easy for written words that are not preceded by a precis of caveats, to be misconstrued. Please, do not under estimate that potential!

I wouldn't be concerned about youngsters being put off of yachting by any content on this forum. Older youngsters use Facebook for most things, followed by, as age decreases, Twitter and TikTok, the latter two being the social equivalents of methadone. They are legal, but you wouldn't want to venture near them if you're off prescription.

When I were a lad [eee by gum see the' 'ere] I didn't really give a gnats chuff about how anyone else addressed me online. I'd be careful to check if they were truly addressing me negatively and if they were, then they would receive all due consideration. Over the long term, such a method helps you find the rough diamonds and in my experience, they are the ones with the most knowledge. The good old salty sea dogs, perhaps? The pseudo offended brigade tend to stay on Twitter or TikTok, thankfully, so I wouldn't worry so much about them.

You undoubtedly know more about sailing than I do, so I wouldn't be at all concerned. It could be worse, you could be me. I don't know a head from a halyard (to quote Hornblower)

 

[Hjem]

Thanks again for all of the replies. On Sunday I'm viewing a Beneteau 411, year 2000. The boat looks to have been well cared for internally, though clear to see that investment in the boat has waned a little in recent years due to father time and the owner's declining health. Some info I've been able to find so far:

i) Standing rigging is original, therefore needs to be replaced. Quote estimated at 3k inc vat
ii) Sails are original, described as having 'two years left,' which I'm interpreting as they need to be replaced. Quote estimated at 5.2k inc vat.
iii) Given two items above, assuming that running rigging also will need to be replaced. assuming 0.6k
iv) No radar - widely varying figures seen for this, but assuming 2.5k
v) Windless is likely original and is currently not wired. Will want to see it wired and working, is it likely it will need to be replaced if 22 years old?
vi) Batteries need expansion for living aboard.
vii) Needs LED lighting throughout.

My biggest concern is the teak deck. I've read the forums extensively on this subject and there seems to be somewhat a consensus that they're definitely something to be 'aware of,' especially on a 22 year old boat. I will find out how she's been wintered etc, give a good visual inspection and if I decide to purchase will ask the surveyor to pay due attention. I would never consider replacing the teak deck due to cost and would therefore opt for removal and replacement with non-slip, but trying to find an indicative cost for this has provided widely ranging figures. Any experience of this procedure would be gratefully received. Also, any other comments are also warmly welcomed, a link to the boat advert is below.

2000 Beneteau Oceanis 411 Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

 

[doug748]

An interesting post Hjem and something that I am almost uniquely unqualified to answer, but....

It seems to me that the teak deck is not laid in the traditional manner but laid down as glued panels, if so this is good news and much easier to tackle when, and if, it needs to be done. Secondly, key deck fittings are not secured through the teak eg shrouds, genoa tracks, which again makes things much easier. I bet these people would be able to give an opinion:

Beneteau Oceanis 411. Beneteau Sailboat PVC Synthetic Teak Decking for

I guess the winch has been disconnected for a reason and I would be tempted to consider it scrap, flog it and fit new. I did not see a bow thruster mentioned? Not essential but some mariners seem to use them more than the engines and it would be very handy at times.
I would want a heavier primary anchor and just as well buy a newer design?


It looks a nice boat and not expensive, let us know how you get on.

.