There is certainly a shortage of good secondhand boats at present as you will see.

[Supertramp]

YEP...TOO RIGHT

We are in a world of rapid and unprecedented change. Stock markets and many investments look uncertain. People are choosing to and having to change the way they live. My kids are even seeing the appeal of liveaboard lifestyle rather than rent and mortgages. And then factor in the growing environmental concerns and fuel costs.

That said, I can see all kinds of changes that will affect boat availability and prices. It will probably affect different boat types differently.

I won't be giving mine away! Prefer sailing and the maintenance any day to airport queues, noisy hotels and over busy eateries.

 

[davidmh]

No Brokerage ads at all in June edition of YM, not even Berthon. Cannot remember that happening before !!!

David MH

 

[Skellum]

This past couple of weeks or so there seems to be a new one on Yacht Market and Yachtworld sites every other day, although some of the new listings appear to have been boats that were listed over the last year. Either they didn’t sell or maybe buyers remorse from whoever bought a year ago?

 

[jac]

This past couple of weeks or so there seems to be a new one on Yacht Market and Yachtworld sites every other day, although some of the new listings appear to have been boats that were listed over the last year. Either they didn’t sell or maybe buyers remorse from whoever bought a year ago?

On the search range that i'm using on Yachtworld it's about 1 a day over the last week but nothing the week before. Still see some that have been on there for a long time with no sign of moving

 

[Skellum]

On the search range that i'm using on Yachtworld it's about 1 a day over the last week but nothing the week before. Still see some that have been on there for a long time with no sign of moving

Some disappeared for a while but came back recently on mine.

 

[Hjem]

I've been looking for a boat for about six months now having decided to take an extended career break for five or so years whilst I've still got some spring in my step. Using all the regular and well known sites, I've been amazed at the lack of boats available in the UK and, whilst this certainly isn't the case on the continent, the import VAT implications mean these are rarely attractive. I've been scouring forums in the hope of learning more and have read this thread with interest. One thing that has been mentioned is that there are cases where boats being sold before every making it onto sites, where brokers have some kind of 'waiting list' of prospective buyers. Is this really the case in anyone's experience and, if so, does anyone have any advice on how one would look into taking advantage of such an avenue? I appreciate this could be 'ring some brokers' but there are a very large number of these, so any advice would be appreciated.

 

[j24jam]

I've been looking for a boat for about six months now having decided to take an extended career break for five or so years whilst I've still got some spring in my step. Using all the regular and well known sites, I've been amazed at the lack of boats available in the UK and, whilst this certainly isn't the case on the continent, the import VAT implications mean these are rarely attractive. I've been scouring forums in the hope of learning more and have read this thread with interest. One thing that has been mentioned is that there are cases where boats being sold before every making it onto sites, where brokers have some kind of 'waiting list' of prospective buyers. Is this really the case in anyone's experience and, if so, does anyone have any advice on how one would look into taking advantage of such an avenue? I appreciate this could be 'ring some brokers' but there are a very large number of these, so any advice would be appreciated.

The best advise will depend on what boat you are looking for. Give us some info and I will give you my 2p worth.

 

[doug748]

I've been looking for a boat for about six months now having decided to take an extended career break for five or so years whilst I've still got some spring in my step. Using all the regular and well known sites, I've been amazed at the lack of boats available in the UK and, whilst this certainly isn't the case on the continent, the import VAT implications mean these are rarely attractive. I've been scouring forums in the hope of learning more and have read this thread with interest. One thing that has been mentioned is that there are cases where boats being sold before every making it onto sites, where brokers have some kind of 'waiting list' of prospective buyers. Is this really the case in anyone's experience and, if so, does anyone have any advice on how one would look into taking advantage of such an avenue? I appreciate this could be 'ring some brokers' but there are a very large number of these, so any advice would be appreciated.

Welcome.

Going by reports on here some brokers seem pretty unreliable, even when selling so it might be optimistic to expect too much. It might be worth speaking to a recommend individual to see if they could look out for you on a finding fee basis. I don't know but I might look into it, certainly if your budget is pretty large. Depending on the type of boat you are after, you would no doubt get some suggestions about good people from forum members.

It's worth joining specific design club forums and asking if any boats are coming up. I have seen this on my own club site, where people have asked and had a positive response. Prospective sellers who are wavering sometimes need a wake up, especially with the prospect of avoiding brokers fees.
Good luck with it.

.

 

[Hjem]

Many thanks for the help.

We're looking for a boat between 40 and 44 ft, as there'll be two of us on board and in our experience this size is the right balance between living space and not requiring more hands. AWB is fine given we intend mainly on European coastal cruising for the period. We'd prefer a centre cockpit given the larger aft cabin, which is high on the agenda for my other half and not unreasonable given we'll be living on it. Non-teak decks would be preferred and happy with the fin and spade rudder combo given the coastal point. I've been planning this for two years and have gone through a lot of info and planning, my main hurdle now being getting to a level of competence when it comes to maintenance (I am slowly making my way through Calder's mechanical and electrical manual) , therefore a project boat is not desirable. We have a budget of £85k for the boat purchase and £20k for the improvements required. Absolutely not afraid of hard work when it comes to those types of maintenance jobs that just need sweat and time.

We we looking at a hunter passage 42 which seemed to tick a lot of boxes until we saw the last surveyor report and were able to piece together a lot of it via forum posts of the previous owner, which meant the asking price was unreasonable in our eyes. We were then looking at an Ben Oceanis 44 CC in Portugal but the VAT import issue meant it wasn't practicable. I should mention that we intend on using the boat in the UK for a circumnavigation and winter in home port of North Shields, then moving onto Baltics for following season, winter again in North Shields and then move down to the Med for a few years, dotting in and out of the Schengen as required and using temp import status for the vessel. Given this plan we feel as though we're pretty much stuck on buying a boat in the UK, but at time of writing there are only about 4 boats on the market that we can see at present that fit the bill.

Thanks again for your help and please let me know if any further info would be useful.

 

[Tranona]

Depends on what boat you are looking for - either type or make/model. While most brokers will take anything, usually based on their location, some specialise in either types of boat, for example classics or bluewater boats, others in particular brands. The most common of the latter are the broker arms of new boat dealers such as HR, Bavaria, Hanse Beneteau etc who tend to have a regular flow of used boats , some coming from trade ins. Looking at dealers' brokerage sites gives an indication of scarcity or otherwise of particular models - for example Clipper Marine currently have no used Bavarias listed at all in the UK and only 11 listed as available anywhere in the UK with individual brokers.

"Specialist" brokers are more likely to keep a list of potential buyers as they are focused, but if you are set on a specific model of boat, particularly a low volume seller then the chances of an individual broker finding one is small and some of the other avenues suggested might be more productive.

 

[Tranona]

Many thanks for the help.

We're looking for a boat between 40 and 44 ft, as there'll be two of us on board and in our experience this size is the right balance between living space and not requiring more hands. AWB is fine given we intend mainly on European coastal cruising for the period. We'd prefer a centre cockpit given the larger aft cabin, which is high on the agenda for my other half and not unreasonable given we'll be living on it. Non-teak decks would be preferred and happy with the fin and spade rudder combo given the coastal point. I've been planning this for two years and have gone through a lot of info and planning, my main hurdle now being getting to a level of competence when it comes to maintenance (I am slowly making my way through Calder's mechanical and electrical manual) , therefore a project boat is not desirable. We have a budget of £85k for the boat purchase and £20k for the improvements required. Absolutely not afraid of hard work when it comes to those types of maintenance jobs that just need sweat and time.

We we looking at a hunter passage 42 which seemed to tick a lot of boxes until we saw the last surveyor report and were able to piece together a lot of it via forum posts of the previous owner, which meant the asking price was unreasonable in our eyes. We were then looking at an Ben Oceanis 44 CC in Portugal but the VAT import issue meant it wasn't practicable. I should mention that we intend on using the boat in the UK for a circumnavigation and winter in home port of North Shields, then moving onto Baltics for following season, winter again in North Shields and then move down to the Med for a few years, dotting in and out of the Schengen as required and using temp import status for the vessel. Given this plan we feel as though we're pretty much stuck on buying a boat in the UK, but at time of writing there are only about 4 boats on the market that we can see at present that fit the bill.

Thanks again for your help and please let me know if any further info would be useful.

That is a requirement that can be met by a decreasing number of boats. Centre cockpit boats have not been made for 20 years and many of them are not now in the UK simply because they were so popular for long term cruising so ended up abroad, particularly in the Med which puts them out of reach of UK buyers. Inevitably as you have probably found most such boats have had a hard life and even £20k on an £85k to upgrade will be a challenge. Many such boats come up for sale because the owners are retiring or giving up cruising and will likely to have spent little on the boat in the last few years. You also need to remember that these boats were only ever built in small numbers compared with aft cockpit boats further reducing the number available now. Even if you relax the CC aspect and look at early 2000s aft cockpit boats such as Bavaria 42 or the Jeanneau DS series you will find very few in the UK and in today's market your budget would be against you.

Realistically £100k is not enough to get a good fully upgraded 40-44' boat, even if there were any on the market to choose from. If you go smaller at say 38-40' you get a wider choice. Late Moodys, Bavaria Oceans for CC and a whole range of aft cockpit boats from the volume builders, and particularly for the aft cockpit more availability.

Sorry if this sounds negative, but it is just reality. The value of good boats has risen because of shortage and incipient inflation (a Bavaria 37 that I sold for £40k in 2015 would now easily fetch £50k) and the cost of upgrades has risen dramatically - remember new "bits" costs are related to a new boat costing £250k, not the £80k of a 20 year old.

You may find scanning down here jryachts.com/yachts-for-sale interesting to get an idea of what you can expect for your £100k. John specialises in this type of boat, and as you can see he has nothing listed at the moment.

 

[Hjem]

Thank you Tranona and no, this doesn't sound negative at all. This is exactly the kind of informed response I was hoping for, regardless of how much it fits with currently laid plans. Whilst we will certainly keep our eyes peeled in the UK for the boat described above, it looks as though we could do with widening the net in terms of boat type. I guess the main pain point would be that to date the largest boat we've spend a decent amount of time on was a Beneteau 38, which had very cramped double aft cabins. We just couldn't imagine living on such a boat, two weeks felt like more than enough.

This does make me think that perhaps there are some boat types with good sized forepeaks. Is this a realistic thought in terms of changing the aft cabin expectation in favour of a larger forepeak?

Other than that then I feel as though perhaps we may need to change out plans in terms of wanting to spend the first couple of seasons in the UK. I have seen many more options in Europe.

Thanks again for your help and welcome any further thoughts.

 

[RogerJolly]

Is anyone noticing an increase in boats actually being used and leaving the marina? Can't say I have. Doesn't seem to square with a purported increase in enthusiasm for sailing.

 

[Tranona]

Something like this theyachtmarket.com/en/boat-for-sale/2308130/ or the Bavaria Vision were aimed at the "couples cruising" market and generally had better performance and less berths plus big enough to have a decent forecabin. Top end of your budget but likely to require less upgrade than a CC boat 10 or 15 years older.

 

[Tranona]

Is anyone noticing an increase in boats actually being used and leaving the marina? Can't say I have. Doesn't seem to square with a purported increase in enthusiasm for sailing.

Not necessarily an increase in enthusiasm for sailing, just the same or slightly more buyers in a fixed or even declining pool of boats.

 

[Moonbeam]

This one might suit... although 38ft, it's a well regarded centre cockpit and within budget. 1992 Moody 38 CC Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

 

[Concerto]

I would suggest a Westerly Oceanlord would meet your requirements, but there is only one for sale in the UK at present.
2001 Westerly Ocean 43 by Trintella Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld
It was a boat completed by Trintella after Westerly went bust. It is over budget and has teak decks, but will give you an idea of what they are like. Many are used for world cruising. I know one owner who circumnavigated over 7 years and John Morris of this parish is currently prepapring his for a round the world trip.

 

[Hjem]

Thank you so much Concerto and Moonbeam, certainly some food for thought there. I'd be seriously compromising the budget with the Trintella, but the Moody is well worth a look at. Thank you again for your help.

 

[Moonbeam]

Thank you so much Concerto and Moonbeam, certainly some food for thought there. I'd be seriously compromising the budget with the Trintella, but the Moody is well worth a look at. Thank you again for your help.

Pre Covid, the Moody 38CC would have been asking about £75k to £80k, so the one I linked to seems like a reasonable asking price at £85k (if condition is good) and, therefore, probably won't be around for long.

 

[Tranona]

Word of caution. The late 90s Moodys are a good choice, but they are few and far between. The bigger Westerlys were good choices, along with similar size Moodys of the same era, but also increasingly rare. More importantly 10 years or more older so more challenging to get up to a good standard within a £100k budget. A quick look at what John Morris is doing to prepare his ocean lord for his retirement will give an idea of what is involved.

Hence my suggestion to look at newer under 40', with the caveat of course that few will have the generous master cabin.