There is certainly a shortage of good secondhand boats at present as you will see.

[Frank Holden]

I would suggest a Westerly Oceanlord would meet your requirements, but there is only one for sale in the UK at present.
2001 Westerly Ocean 43 by Trintella Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld
It was a boat completed by Trintella after Westerly went bust. It is over budget and has teak decks, but will give you an idea of what they are like. Many are used for world cruising. I know one owner who circumnavigated over 7 years and John Morris of this parish is currently prepapring his for a round the world trip.

'Camomile', John Morris's boat, and mine (currently into the 32 year of her circumnav, 28 in my ownership ) are Westerly Sealords - Oceanlords are the same but a bit fancier.
There are a few Oceanlords around - Sealords are like hen's teeth just now -and if they have been reasonably well looked after should not be too hard to put into circumnav order.

All their issues have been well documented - see the camomile blog for an idea of what may need doing if not rectified already.
Blue Water Re-rig

Nice one here
1989 Westerly Oceanlord Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

 

[Frogmogman]

Many thanks for the help.

We're looking for a boat between 40 and 44 ft, as there'll be two of us on board and in our experience this size is the right balance between living space and not requiring more hands. AWB is fine given we intend mainly on European coastal cruising for the period. We'd prefer a centre cockpit given the larger aft cabin, which is high on the agenda for my other half and not unreasonable given we'll be living on it. Non-teak decks would be preferred and happy with the fin and spade rudder combo given the coastal point. I've been planning this for two years and have gone through a lot of info and planning, my main hurdle now being getting to a level of competence when it comes to maintenance (I am slowly making my way through Calder's mechanical and electrical manual) , therefore a project boat is not desirable. We have a budget of £85k for the boat purchase and £20k for the improvements required. Absolutely not afraid of hard work when it comes to those types of maintenance jobs that just need sweat and time.

We we looking at a hunter passage 42 which seemed to tick a lot of boxes until we saw the last surveyor report and were able to piece together a lot of it via forum posts of the previous owner, which meant the asking price was unreasonable in our eyes. We were then looking at an Ben Oceanis 44 CC in Portugal but the VAT import issue meant it wasn't practicable. I should mention that we intend on using the boat in the UK for a circumnavigation and winter in home port of North Shields, then moving onto Baltics for following season, winter again in North Shields and then move down to the Med for a few years, dotting in and out of the Schengen as required and using temp import status for the vessel. Given this plan we feel as though we're pretty much stuck on buying a boat in the UK, but at time of writing there are only about 4 boats on the market that we can see at present that fit the bill.

Thanks again for your help and please let me know if any further info would be useful.

Might be too much of a project boat, and unfortunately fitted with the dreaded teak decks, but the asking price would leave you quite a lot to spend within your overall budget (I suspect you could get it for less than the asking price).

It does tick some of your boxes; certainly a spacious aft cabin.

Oyster Yachts 406 for sale UK, Oyster Yachts boats for sale, Oyster Yachts used boat sales, Oyster Yachts Sailing Yachts For Sale 1987 Oyster 406DS (Deck Saloon) - OFFERS INVITED! - topsail.co.uk - Apollo Duck

 

[Hjem]

Indeed, three asking price offers on the moody today tha k you for the extra insight, I will get back to the drawing board and read the post that you suggest.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Might be too much of a project boat, and unfortunately fitted with the dreaded teak decks, but the asking price would leave you quite a lot to spend within your overall budget (I suspect you could get it for less than the asking price).

It does tick some of your boxes; certainly a spacious aft cabin.

Oyster Yachts 406 for sale UK, Oyster Yachts boats for sale, Oyster Yachts used boat sales, Oyster Yachts Sailing Yachts For Sale 1987 Oyster 406DS (Deck Saloon) - OFFERS INVITED! - topsail.co.uk - Apollo Duck

That boat was fire damaged. I would be very cautious

 

[Tranona]

Nice one here
1989 Westerly Oceanlord Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

Not much use for somebody who wants to base the boat in UK and then cruise Europe as the cost of getting it back and then paying VAT would bring it up to at least £80k plus the refit costs to make it fit for the next 10 years or so. OK if the existing owner was the one who took it out of the UK and is prepared to sail it back and sell it in the UK so avoiding VAT.

 

[lektran]

I looked at the Moody 38 today and offered above asking price, but was still unsuccessful. This is going to be a challenging hunt.

 

[Frank Holden]

Not much use for somebody who wants to base the boat in UK and then cruise Europe as the cost of getting it back and then paying VAT would bring it up to at least £80k plus the refit costs to make it fit for the next 10 years or so. OK if the existing owner was the one who took it out of the UK and is prepared to sail it back and sell it in the UK so avoiding VAT.

Here is something closer to home.
1988 Westerly Corsair 36 Mk II Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

Not sure why you think that all older yachts involve huge refit costs. That one sounds well maintained and ready to go.
My 34 year old Sealord - if it went on the market tomorrow - is ready for sea in almost all respects. OK so I am about to replace one of the two shower sump pumps, get the batts replaced in two EPIRBS, and fit a new furling line . Also on my current list is buy a new LPG solenoid as a spare.
Next major expenditure I have planned is standing rigging in about 4 years time.

 

[Tranona]

The Corsair proves my point. Back of the envelope sum based on the details comes to well over £20K spent in the last 3 years on the sort of replacements a 30 year old boat needs (and don't forget the £10k for the new engine in 2008!). Surprised the owner is selling as these are the sort of things you need to replace if planning a 5-10 year cruising programme and to sell after 2 years will even in todays febrile market only get maybe £5k over a less well equipped boat of the same model. This could be a good buy, but it is unusual.

My comments come from being around this type of boat for getting on for 40 years, both when they were being built and seeing them as they progress through life. Look around at the destination yards in the Med from Portugal through to Turkey and you will find loads of 70-90s boats of this type that were bought, often at around 10 years old for the lifetime project that end up worn out after 15 years because the owners get too old or too poor to keep them up to scratch. Not confined to the Med, Lots of similar boats in the UK where the cost and work of keeping a 40'+ boat going is now out of proportion to its value. Regular stories on here of people buying such boats at low prices for the size and discovering they need to spend as much again to get them up to scratch, never mind the time to do it.

There are also many boats owned by people like you who constantly cruise and maintain their boats (and sometimes forget to add up how much it costs and the time it takes), but rarely do such boats come on the market unless there is a change in the owner's circumstances. Mostly what happens to such boats is that the owner for the reasons mentioned earlier gradually wind down, reluctant to give up and the boat comes on the market with a backlog of work and replacements required - and probably in a place far away from home! You only have to look at the listings in the Med, , Caribbean, Thailand etc to see what I mean.

My view is that rather than starting with a 30-40 year old boat and trying to bring it up to modern standards why not start with a boat half that age. I appreciate there are those who think modern boats are less suitable for long term cruising, but that ignores the evidence of the thousands who use such boats successfully. I bought my first Bavaria in 2001 after becoming disillusioned with the poor state of the 10-15 year old UK boats of the type we are talking about here. For the same or less money I could have a new boat with better systems, more equipment and arguably better put together. It certainly turned out that way as I owned it for 15 years, the first 7 as a charter boat then the rest as our holiday boat in the Med before sailing it back to the UK. Constant maintenance and upgrades meant it was largely trouble free and when I sold it the new owners spent around £10k and took it back to the Med.

If I had the same plans as Hjem and the same budget I would be looking at a mid 2000s 38-42' from any of the 4 big builders, although for obvious reasons a Bavaria 40 or 42 would be my first choice. UK boats were almost all sold with very high specs and all the gear is from well established suppliers and readily available for replacements and upgrades. Many in the UK have been lightly used and refit costs would be a fraction of those of older boats. Conceptually you would be using the middle years of the life of the boat and much of the gear rather than the old age bit . Rather like humans, the middle years are the best - past the growing up pains, settled down and before major replacements are required. Of course if you have a bigger budget (or indeed a smaller one) your choices would be different. Go up to £150k and a new world opens up as you can consider HRs, Malos, Oysters etc and with a smaller budget and good DIY skills there are many older boats in the £40-60K price range that will do the job if you are happy with working with what you have rather than upgrading.

 

[Concerto]

Here are 2 UK based Contest yachts that might be worth considering and are within budget. Contest are an overlooked quality builder in Holland.

1989 Contest 41 Centre Cockpit for sale - YachtWorld

1985 Contest 38s Centre Cockpit for sale - YachtWorld

 

[ashtead]

Have read this thread with interest . Yes there are boats around at say12 to13m with a wide large bow cabin. We are a Moody 41 with large bow cabin but clearly it’s relative to boat length. To be in the budget however you really need to be looking smaller as said. There is a tendency to recommend a make known but the are many happy owners of moody36cc with stern cabins and they do sell easily though but we have seen a couple of owners locally selling and upsizing to a Moody41 and another to a Rustler . A source of info is moody owners website 9you might also like a38) but same thoughts would apply for westerly. A lot depends though on what style of interior you like (country cottage Najad) or more modern stark types. The key thing to my mind is not to over stretch initially and find a make /model that in a harder market is easy to sell on when you decide to trade up in size. As your boat gets bigger the gear increases in price and potentially amount and costs more to antifoul,park,polish ,re rig etc etc. so don’t create a worry for future years and whichever make you go for go newer but smaller. Having moved from a 10.8 m to current boat the pluses are clearly more space,cover miles more quickly, smoother ride ,easier to actually sail(electric windlass,winches,self tacking,double headsails,bowthruster etc ) but downsides are length, less berths to find,harder to berth potentially so have to plan more . Things still break,eg Raymarine ,Fusion radios, batteries fail on larger boats and you might want extra gear eg davits,spinnaker pole,cruising chute and furler etc so keeping smaller reduces costs of some add on extras . Happy hunting and just be careful with the brokers you deal with as some are not that reliable much like estate agents but worse really . I can recommend Clipper as mentioned for Bavaria having sold our 34 through them or say jeanneau in chi if you are looking for say a deck saloon type.

 

[lektran]

Sounds like Hjem is on a similar search to myself, that Contest 41 has been on my radar but I've been undecided on whether it is worth the trip up to Scotland. Pros are that it is a solid boat and looks roomy and new standing rigging. The cons are the heavy displacement and associated large engine, teak decks (looks to be screwed down) and the 33 year age. If the engine or any of that furling gear needs to be replaced soonish then it starts to get expensive.

I don't suppose anyone has been to look at it?

 

[Beneteau381]

Indeed, three asking price offers on the moody today ☺ tha k you for the extra insight, I will get back to the drawing board and read the post that you suggest.

Dont make themistake of going smaller to suit your pocket. 40 ft min to live on comfortably

 

[Wansworth]

One person can live quite comfortably on a 30 footer or less two on a 32 footer but once you want the kitchen sink and bikes and stuff a 40 footer is probably correct

 

[Graham376]

Here is something closer to home.
1988 Westerly Corsair 36 Mk II Cruiser for sale - YachtWorld

Not sure why you think that all older yachts involve huge refit costs. That one sounds well maintained and ready to go.
My 34 year old Sealord - if it went on the market tomorrow - is ready for sea in almost all respects. OK so I am about to replace one of the two shower sump pumps, get the batts replaced in two EPIRBS, and fit a new furling line . Also on my current list is buy a new LPG solenoid as a spare.
Next major expenditure I have planned is standing rigging in about 4 years time.

Our 1988 Moody 376 had a survey a month ago and only two minor points were noted, steaming/deck light not working and through-deck chain plates need resealing. Having said that, it's looking a bit tired down below after living aboard for roughly 6 months a year for the last 16 years. Not much cost to DIY but a thousand or two if done professionally. Dinghy needs replacing, there's another £1k. Rig was given clean bill of health but if heading across the pond would best be replaced so another £3 - £4k. New sails? another few thousand.

It all mounts up and we've already spent £20k+ over the 17 years since purchase, with engine change and many replacements and additions.

One point I've not seen mentioned yet, is the difference in cost between marina berths <12m and often 30% jump to the next size up so, bear that in mind when looking at boats. We find 38ft CC suits the two of us fine and with ensuite fore cabin plenty of room for a couple of guests - when we have to

 

[Hjem]

Some really great points raised, thank you to all for passing on your experience, it's really valuable.

In my long term budget I have 'set aside' £8k-£10k a year as running maintenance costs for the boat. This budget was based upon a lot of research to try and understand annual cruising costs which I understand is like asking how long a piece of string is. But with a lot of research and setting some expectation around what our string would look like, this is the figure we arrived at when looking at published data from other cruisers. Clearly the relationship between size, age, ability to perform DIY, age and state of underlying systems and more is a complicated one! But quite a simple question, am I in the right universe with my planning here based on the now widened search criteria to include 38-44 (however unlikely the 44 is based on above)?

 

[Graham376]

Some really great points raised, thank you to all for passing on your experience, it's really valuable.

In my long term budget I have 'set aside' £8k-£10k a year as running maintenance costs for the boat. This budget was based upon a lot of research to try and understand annual cruising costs which I understand is like asking how long a piece of string is. But with a lot of research and setting some expectation around what our string would look like, this is the figure we arrived at when looking at published data from other cruisers. Clearly the relationship between size, age, ability to perform DIY, age and state of underlying systems and more is a complicated one! But quite a simple question, am I in the right universe with my planning here based on the now widened search criteria to include 38-44 (however unlikely the 44 is based on above)?

If you're going to DIY maintenance and anchor a lot, the £8 - £10k is easily doable but, if marina based, then that budget for a 44ft boat will mainly be taken up by marina costs.

 

[ashtead]

A lot depends on where your chosen marina will be and if you accept a tidal access. Add to that an annual lift out,antifoul,tank of diesel,insurance, a fund for a new headsail in a few years, new batteries maybe, and £10k can look light for the south unless you keep on a river mooring or are able to find a boat which comes with a mooring you can take on. Obviously if in France etc berthing costs half eg keeping in cherbourg far cheaper than Solent but not so convenient.

 

[Hjem]

The search has been continuing

This Catalina 400 popped up in the last couple of days and seems to fit the bill. Does anyone have any experience of these boats or comments in general? I would appreciate any advice at all.

Catalina 400 For Sale, 12.34m, 1999

 

[mrming]

The search has been continuing

This Catalina 400 popped up in the last couple of days and seems to fit the bill. Does anyone have any experience of these boats or comments in general? I would appreciate any advice at all.

Catalina 400 For Sale, 12.34m, 1999

No experience but general comments based on the photos:
- Rare boat in the UK - Catalina is an American brand. I would double check how it got here and that VAT paid status is documented.
- Condition looks very nice, however it’s a 23 year old boat. Electronics are all old and the engine has got to be under suspicion as visual condition is a bit rough compared to the rest of the boat.
- Not sure the price is much of a bargain given the above, however it could be a very solid base boat if you are willing to splash say £15-30k ish on upgrades.

 

[wully1]

Dont make themistake of going smaller to suit your pocket. 40 ft min to live on comfortably

Simply not true.