Small boat heavy weather

[Mark-1]

I don’t sail , but a true seaman would not head out in bad conditions through choice.

There are an awful lot of people who are having a lot fun in bad conditions, and being denied the title 'true seaman' is a small price to pay for that.

I've left places with elderly gentlemen shouting at me from the pontoon that I'm irresponsible. It always makes me think of the quote at the start of one of Webb Chile's books:

"You are mad," shouted Angus, who had learnt to cherish his own limitations as sure proof of sanity. —Patrick White

 

[Wansworth]

I think people in small boats wear rose tinted specticals and have also lost sight of the OP.

He talks about the possibility of sailing in a F7, a F7 in open water is going to be between 28 and 33mph with a probable wave hight of 4M but up to 5.5 ( nearly the length of the boats he is talking of.
In these conditions boats of this size will not make way to windward, they will fall off and broad reach or bob up and down. This of course is in the open sea perhaps in the solent the wave hight will be considerably less and in the shelter of land the wind speed could be less but in true F7 conditions in a small boat it will be very uncomfortable wet and cold if above decks with waves over the deck or if down below like being in a tumble drier.

If you pass a smack with three reefs going to port you know your in deep shite!

 

[jamie N]

I agree with much of Hackett's, but will state that with STAKKR, the "not being able to make way to windward" statement isn't quite right, we were making 2.5kts in an 80 year old small boat design, but the point isn't far wrong on everything else. The pleasure wasn't great, and wouldn't have been part of the plan.
The 'timeline track' shows 17 hours of 'progress'.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

What was the wind direction and what was the true wind speed?

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Strongest I've experienced while on board was this on a charter holiday in 2009 in the Adriatic ... average wind speed was mid 40 knots but gusting 50+ knots on occasion, so F9 gusting F10. .



.... the boat was 46ft, the sea state was muddled with large waves coming from all directions, breaking on the harbour entrance - we were amongst islands and the wind had been blowing this hard for about 3 days from the open sea.

We were fortunately holed up in a marina and weren't going anywhere - I would have phoned the charter company and said "Sorry, not going to make it back - charge me for another week" if it had continued - but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't of wanted me to try and bring the boat back anyway.

If you want some inspiration, try NBJS with Erik Aanderaa in his Contessa 35 .....

 

[jamie N]

WSW 25-40kts.

 

[Daydream believer]

I think that if the OP wants to go out in heavy weather, or feels that he might get CAUGHT in heavy weather - which is the commonest scenario he needs to look at different designs of boat.
So far on the smaller boats the Anderson 2 ( yeah yeah you can all laugh) is a good sea boat. Our club commodore dedicated his life to Instructing youth on training yachts. He received an award for that from princess Anne. He had an Anderson & sailed the Baltic & down to Biscay. His tales of heavy weather in it are many & he says ( No these are NOT Seajet fabrications) what an excellent boat it is. I gave a lift to a chap once who, it turned out, sailed one across the Atlantic SH.
So that should be high on his list if he wants to do some fettling.
I had a Stella which at 25ft 9 ins is out of the OPs size range. I have been in numerous F7 & thrashed it all round the Thames estuary. However, I have been in a F9 in it once in the 70s & it scared the living daylights out of me. I had a crew, but he was down below for the entire 30 hour trip, dying. The firs wave to break right over the boat made me scream with fear & I am not afraid to admit it.
However, I had to heave too for 4.5 hours & actually slept for 3.5 hours whilst the boat just bobbed up & down.
So I would suggest that if that size of boat is too big then at least look at the hull shape. The Folkboat is smaller & many have done epic voyages in them. But I would still look for an Invicta or a Contessa 26 or similar.
The long keel makes for a good shape upwind & heaves too
My current 31 ft Hanse has carried me through my second F9, en route from Ijmuiden to Lowestoft & it was hell. We could not heave too & just had to keep plugging on. It did the 100 miles , all of which were to windward, in 24 hours but they were the worse 24 of my sailing life. A short fin in those conditions just does not stack up to a nice long keel.
But I would suggest to the Op that look for a long keel, not a bilge keel( useless up wind in a chop) & look for a fine entry, not something with a bluff bow, because it has more room up forward.- Otherwise you will need a big reliable inboard.

 

[dunedin]

WSW 25-40kts.
View attachment 173729

You graph scale is in km/h and lines not labelled - but assuming red is gusts looks like max sustained wind speed around 35km/h or 19kts, and max gust around 31 kts. So not too breezy.
What was your point?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

In fact there was a F7 for 3 to 4 hours declining over the 8 hours with a fairly rapid build up so no chance for the sea to develop and the wind with a fair degree off the land so probably being a little less than recorded at Lossiemouth. you were a maximum of about 12miles off land. So whilst I have no doubt that it was very unpleasant it was not a prolonged F7 in open waters. You and the boat did well to endure it.

 

[Supertramp]

I have chosen to day sail in a strong wind forecast. A great way to learn how you and the boat handle difficult conditions. But it was relatively sheltered water and 30 knts, not 40. I had a gusts of 40 and dropped the hank on jib in one which was a character forming learning experience. I should then have rigged the (hank on) storm jib but I was totally exhausted. The boat handled it fine, it reduces the apprehension when caught out and makes you aware of what to prepare in advance.

Once on Windermere in a 17ft boat I was beating to windward with full reefed main only and still spilling most the wind with the boat at 45 degrees and beyond. She made reasonable progress (I had no engine) although it was like dinghy sailing. A rescue boat came out to see if I needed help. But that was wind only, not waves. Great fun.

 

[RupertW]

Like others on here I have sometimes headed out into a known 50 knot plus gusts and nasty seas, even knowing that I had plenty of time and it was all due to moderate in 48 hours.

It was great and exhilarating and all that, and I felt for my wife cooking a fresh hot meal on overnighters in those conditions but each time it was to test whether the latest work or fix was working well and whether we could cope as a couple in stronger conditions sometimes with difficult pilotage. Only by choosing it and learning could we make sure we felt safe for the longer trips where we might encounter those conditions whether we wanted to or not.

 

[jamie N]

You graph scale is in km/h and lines not labelled - but assuming red is gusts looks like max sustained wind speed around 35km/h or 19kts, and max gust around 31 kts. So not too breezy.
What was your point?

No point to make at all, simply answering a question, with data from a land based station, 20 miles South.
One constant throughout the thread has been sailing a small boat in winds around about F7, which is what I've illustrated as an example of in the Moray Firth. The figures that I quoted in post #25 I stand by as being accurate, but won't be alone in not having evidence to back it up.
I didn't realise that it was a requirement for you.

 

[dunedin]

No point to make at all, simply answering a question, with data from a land based station, 20 miles South.
One constant throughout the thread has been sailing a small boat in winds around about F7, which is what I've illustrated as an example of in the Moray Firth. The figures that I quoted in post #25 I stand by as being accurate, but won't be alone in not having evidence to back it up.
I didn't realise that it was a requirement for you.

Actually I simply had no clue what your post meant as the only words were a wind direction and speed in knots and an unlabelled graph with winds in km/h - which was for massively lower wind speeds. You didn’t make any link to any question you were answering. So still baffled by your post but not losing sleep over it.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

You graph scale is in km/h and lines not labelled - but assuming red is gusts looks like max sustained wind speed around 35km/h or 19kts, and max gust around 31 kts. So not too breezy.
What was your point?

It was a balmy day in Lossiemouth?

 

[Wansworth]

 

[Fr J Hackett]

All a downwind sleigh ride, try it t'other way

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Iv'e got some video on YouTube of me beating into 35 gusting 40 for about an hour. She plods along at 2.5-3kts. I don't like it and don't plan for it but I go sailing for days at a time so sometimes you live with what you get.

 

[mrming]

If you want some inspiration, try NBJS with Erik Aanderaa in his Contessa 32 .....

Minor correction, Erik’s boat is a Doug Peterson designed Contessa 35. Agree they are excellent vids though.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Minor correction, Erik’s boat is a Doug Peterson designed Contessa 35. Agree they are excellent vids though.

Duly corrected.

 

[Mark-1]

All a downwind sleigh ride, try it t'other way

Isn't it better to do it the fun way?

My brother and I once changed our weekend plans to sail to Cherbourg overnight on a Friday after work specifically to pick up a SW gale to surf back. I can't say I'd have been grinning as much going the other way. (I couldn't *look* upwind, let alone sail upwind.)

This thread seems an odd collection of contradictions.
1) It's wrong to deliberately go out when it's windy.
2) But if you do go it's so utterly devoid of challenge that only upwind counts.
3) Although F8 is dangerously irresponsible, F7 isn't windy enough.
4) Although going out deliberately in a planned and controlled way is wrong, getting your weather wrong to the extent that you find yourself randomly out in a gale you completely failed to anticipate is commendable.
5) People who have never chosen to sail in gales are the perfect people to offer their wisdom on sailing in gales to people who frequently choose to sail in gales.