Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
And they are mainly downwind single handed, a family couple inshore cruiser they are not.
Small boat heavy weather
- Thread starter Davidbs
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MisterBaxter
Well-known member
The mini Transat types are amazing and I'd love a go in one but I don't think comfortable motion would be high on their list of virtues. I think they're maybe more for experts who are able to keep moving through anything.
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Poignard
Well-known member
Do they heave-to? Or is the idea to run before it?
I must say the ability of my Twister to heave-to easily is a godsend: whether it's to get something to eat or drink, use the heads, do some navigation, or just to get a bit of peace and rest for a while
Buck Turgidson
Well-known member
Just last week I spent 3 hours hove to waiting for some nasty forecast weather to pass through. If it wasn't for the pesky fishermen I might have had a kip!
Rhylsailer99
Active member
I still get flashbacks from being out in my cobra 850 solo with 65mph gusts and what seemed to me like huge waves.
Maybe it was not as bad as it seemed as the boat handled it but I was scared for my life.
It was defo around 65mph though as i clocked 58mph on my wind instrument whilst surfing down the crest of a large wave doing 7knots, the wind was behind me.
Maybe it was not as bad as it seemed as the boat handled it but I was scared for my life.
It was defo around 65mph though as i clocked 58mph on my wind instrument whilst surfing down the crest of a large wave doing 7knots, the wind was behind me.
Stemar
Well-known member
I don't know what my record is, as the windex gave up at 55knots! However, that was on a 39 footer. Still not fun, and I ended up in A&E with suspected broken ribs after getting thrown across the cabin. That was a charter boat, so another example of "we need to get home"
Too true. the forecast I had was S becoming SW 4-6. The direction was about right, but it was 7-8.
dunedin
Well-known member
Sorry but I suspect there is a lot of exaggeration factor in there - and/or very poor checking of weather forecasts (unless you were mid Atlantic). Force 10 gusts are hardly commonplace, and for the past 15 years or so almost never happen without a forecast of at least F8 warnings well in advance.
Even in the places I sail, where often get 30-40 knot squalls off the hills, in 30k miles and 25 years only ever had one time when experienced gusts of 55 plus knots when less than F8 forecast - and that was in the aftermath of a genuine F10-F11 which had wrecked many yachts, and we chose to leave a bit early and got pasted in a narrow sea loch.
PS. Have been at sea in a genuine F10 gusting F11 in an ex-British Steel 70 footer and, even in sheltered waters, it was overwhelming - solid water going over the deckhouse on 70 footer, and unable to hear anything on deck.
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KeelsonGraham
Well-known member
I was in a Westerly Konsort that handled a bad Force 9 throughout the night crossing the channel. Suffered several knockdowns but shook herself back just fine. Waves broke blue imto the cockpit several times but she drained relatively quickly.
Not an experience I’d like to repeat, but it did show that the old Westerlys were built strong.
Not an experience I’d like to repeat, but it did show that the old Westerlys were built strong.
Supertramp
Well-known member
Returning to the OP's question, few of us would actively seek an offshore experience in a 22 footer in winds above 30 knts and I for one would be seeking shelter if not already in it. But a skipper with experience, and in a small boat with the strength, design and equipment can cope. You probably wouldn't want your partner or children along.
Sea state is the key, and avoiding having to plug to windward (where shelter often is). Even on a windy and challenging sail you are usually well within the boat's capability, and perhaps nearer the skipper's limits. In a gale and beyond you are getting to the boat's limits and those of the skipper or helmsman. It only takes one wrong move like a gybe, broach or falling off a crest. A small problem in normal weather becomes insurmountable.
I would carry a substantial anchor and rode so that when I found shelter I could stay in it securely!
Sea state is the key, and avoiding having to plug to windward (where shelter often is). Even on a windy and challenging sail you are usually well within the boat's capability, and perhaps nearer the skipper's limits. In a gale and beyond you are getting to the boat's limits and those of the skipper or helmsman. It only takes one wrong move like a gybe, broach or falling off a crest. A small problem in normal weather becomes insurmountable.
I would carry a substantial anchor and rode so that when I found shelter I could stay in it securely!
Jacana139
Member
A Macwester Rowan 22 is heavily over engineered with a long keel.
johnalison
Well-known member
I went out with a friend in his 22-footer last year. It is a long time since we had such a boat and I was surprised by the way we were stopped by the popple off Stone Point that my 34 wouldn’t have even noticed. As far as I am concerned, anything much over F5 is close to survival conditions in a small boat even though many of our best sails in my 34 have been 6s. Even when I was younger I would have done anything possible to avoid being in open water in such conditions.
LittleSister
Well-known member
In real life, rather than dreams, I don't think anyone actually 'wants' to be out in a F7 in a small boat, even if they revel in boisterous conditions.
I think the OP will find his practices will change from what he envisages when he actually has such a boat, and yet he won't find avoiding severe conditions much limiting at all.
I say that on the back of sailing thousands of miles, over decades, in such boats, including some very challenging conditions - Shipmate Dayboat 16' 3"; Pirate 17' 3"; Hurley 22'; Samphire 23'.
I agree with others who say that
- sea conditions are more critical than windspeed per se (obviously the two are related, but not directly);
- progress (other than downwind) in a small boat will plummet once it gets rough; and
- that such conditions takes more of a toll on the skipper/crew than the boat - very tiring, very difficult to move around (especially on small boat's deck, which also means serious risk off going over the side), and very easy to injure yourself. (Though such conditions will also tend to find the weak spots in any gear/maintenance.)
I think the OP will find his practices will change from what he envisages when he actually has such a boat, and yet he won't find avoiding severe conditions much limiting at all.
I say that on the back of sailing thousands of miles, over decades, in such boats, including some very challenging conditions - Shipmate Dayboat 16' 3"; Pirate 17' 3"; Hurley 22'; Samphire 23'.
I agree with others who say that
- sea conditions are more critical than windspeed per se (obviously the two are related, but not directly);
- progress (other than downwind) in a small boat will plummet once it gets rough; and
- that such conditions takes more of a toll on the skipper/crew than the boat - very tiring, very difficult to move around (especially on small boat's deck, which also means serious risk off going over the side), and very easy to injure yourself. (Though such conditions will also tend to find the weak spots in any gear/maintenance.)
Laminar Flow
Well-known member
Just about time to inject a note of realism.
Wind does not capsize a ballasted boat, not even a F7.
Waves, particularly when breaking, do. The (breaking) wave height at which your chances of capsize increase exponentially is approximately 1/3 boat length. For the proposed 22 footer that equates to just over 7'.
Obviously, size matters.
And now for a bit of statistical background: 90% of all recreational sailing takes place in winds under 6 Bft. Out of this a further 80% takes place in winds under Bft 5.
F 7, in open water and in a 20 odd footer, sounds a bit like a death wish to me. And yes, I have crossed oceans and have experienced high winds and storms in the open sea. But hey, you don't have to go that far. A decent tide rip at any cape of your choice, closer inshore, should take care of things quite nicely as well.
Time to get real and, with today's mostly reliable weather reporting, there is no particular need to put things to the test.
Wind does not capsize a ballasted boat, not even a F7.
Waves, particularly when breaking, do. The (breaking) wave height at which your chances of capsize increase exponentially is approximately 1/3 boat length. For the proposed 22 footer that equates to just over 7'.
Obviously, size matters.
And now for a bit of statistical background: 90% of all recreational sailing takes place in winds under 6 Bft. Out of this a further 80% takes place in winds under Bft 5.
F 7, in open water and in a 20 odd footer, sounds a bit like a death wish to me. And yes, I have crossed oceans and have experienced high winds and storms in the open sea. But hey, you don't have to go that far. A decent tide rip at any cape of your choice, closer inshore, should take care of things quite nicely as well.
Time to get real and, with today's mostly reliable weather reporting, there is no particular need to put things to the test.
scozzy
Member
My 2 favourite things to do are sailing and golf and when I do them I like to have "fun" whatever that means!
That's why, wherever possible I dont play golf in the rain and don't leave my mooring when it's F7!
My halcyon 23 is built like a tank and not too bothered in a blow but she's staying put in those conditions
That's why, wherever possible I dont play golf in the rain and don't leave my mooring when it's F7!
My halcyon 23 is built like a tank and not too bothered in a blow but she's staying put in those conditions
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
I doubt I could actually get Chiara off her mooring in more than 30kn, she’d be pinned on to the pontoon like a butterly in a strong SW wind.
Stemar
Well-known member
This.
I simply wasn't prepared to go on deck in the incident I described in #22 until we got into Studland Bay. Turning north, in SW wind, it would have been better to get rid of the main and keep a bit of genny, but it was safer to get rid of the genny and keep the main, avoiding going too deep downwind until we had shelter from the waves.
If I were ever to prepare a boat of pretty much any size for heavy weather sailing, being able to reef, drop and secure all sails from the cockpit would not be negotiable. Single handed, I could definitely be tempted by a junk rig.
TLouth7
Active member
Note however that in serious conditions Roger would be down below with the boat sailing herself, not in the cockpit enjoying the sleigh ride as you might in a larger yacht. Indeed he once broke a rib in a knockdown and then sailed many weeks home.
Additionally he would never close the coast in severe weather (NB his boats are/were engineless) and so on occasion waited offshore for several days before getting home.
It's noticeable that in a force 5 and moderate sea state my 33' 4.5T yacht is fun and feels secure whereas smaller yachts in the club are having a frankly stressful time.
RupertW
Well-known member
We’ve owned a couple of GK24s in between bigger boats and it’s hard to think of a more bulletproof model. We did a lot of sailing around West Country and South Britanny in the first one and it dealt very well with some magificent weather.
I’ve never had a small boat which just went where you pointed it - surfing downwind but also making great upwind progress into big sea states and strongish winds. The short waves of the Solent slowed it down but bigger waves were fine.
But…it’s sailing a submarine upwind with no big comfortable spaces down below to dry off.
I’ve never had a small boat which just went where you pointed it - surfing downwind but also making great upwind progress into big sea states and strongish winds. The short waves of the Solent slowed it down but bigger waves were fine.
But…it’s sailing a submarine upwind with no big comfortable spaces down below to dry off.
jamie N
Well-known member
I've just bought a GK24 to replace my Folkboat, so quite used to heavy weather upwind 'issues', however the GK has a sprayhood that can be deployed under sail, STAKKR has one only for motoring or at anchor due to the quite low boom with the mainsail up.
The internal volume of the GK is roughly double that of a Folkboat, so anticipate an agoraphobia thread soon!
The internal volume of the GK is roughly double that of a Folkboat, so anticipate an agoraphobia thread soon!
Fr J Hackett
Well-known member
I think people in small boats wear rose tinted specticals and have also lost sight of the OP.
He talks about the possibility of sailing in a F7, a F7 in open water is going to be between 28 and 33mph with a probable wave hight of 4M but up to 5.5 ( nearly the length of the boats he is talking of.
In these conditions boats of this size will not make way to windward, they will fall off and broad reach or bob up and down. This of course is in the open sea perhaps in the solent the wave hight will be considerably less and in the shelter of land the wind speed could be less but in true F7 conditions in a small boat it will be very uncomfortable wet and cold if above decks with waves over the deck or if down below like being in a tumble drier.
He talks about the possibility of sailing in a F7, a F7 in open water is going to be between 28 and 33mph with a probable wave hight of 4M but up to 5.5 ( nearly the length of the boats he is talking of.
In these conditions boats of this size will not make way to windward, they will fall off and broad reach or bob up and down. This of course is in the open sea perhaps in the solent the wave hight will be considerably less and in the shelter of land the wind speed could be less but in true F7 conditions in a small boat it will be very uncomfortable wet and cold if above decks with waves over the deck or if down below like being in a tumble drier.