TSailors
Active member
So sorry to hear that.. so glad that its architect, Boris, has left the office!
Selling-up Or Sailing North. Is the British Overseas Liveaboard A Dying Breed - If so why❓
- Thread starter nortada
- Start date
AndrewB
Well-known member
I'm no fan of Brexit, but I find it hard to credit that it is really responsible for all these abandonments of the liveaboard lifestyle.
Anyone with genuine overseas liveaboard experience should by now have grasped an understanding of the bureaucratic immigration jungle. We surely know that the present EU posturings will not last long, there are always loopholes, and a more pragmatic approach will soon enough develop (as it already has in Greece and Portugal).
I've lost count of the number of times I've found a way. From the Australian Immigration Officer who was more interested in talking about his newly acquired yacht than in checking that I'd wildly overstayed my time in Australia, to the USA CBP lady who said resignedly "Well, at least you are going now". "Oh yes ma'am, in an hour's time there will be two fewer illegals in the USA".
Come on guys, what's the real reason? Anno Domini!
.
Anyone with genuine overseas liveaboard experience should by now have grasped an understanding of the bureaucratic immigration jungle. We surely know that the present EU posturings will not last long, there are always loopholes, and a more pragmatic approach will soon enough develop (as it already has in Greece and Portugal).
I've lost count of the number of times I've found a way. From the Australian Immigration Officer who was more interested in talking about his newly acquired yacht than in checking that I'd wildly overstayed my time in Australia, to the USA CBP lady who said resignedly "Well, at least you are going now". "Oh yes ma'am, in an hour's time there will be two fewer illegals in the USA".
Come on guys, what's the real reason? Anno Domini!
.
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sailaboutvic
Well-known member
Andrew I agree with every thing you posted .
There always a way around stuff ,
Personally I not come across any official rules , laws we not found a way around .
I don't believe people are stopping living their dream , there a lot more family's doing it now ,
We seeing folks as far as China and west indies.Argentina
As I said age comes into it and heath of cause the other main reason is financial,
Especially when they read forum people saying they can cruise for 5/7 K a year only to find out very quickly they can't .
Newcomers don't realise what living on board entails, the first year it's a big adventure, by the time the second winter sets in , realty start to set in .
Wife missing family, friends and her house , men missing work, the comfort of a full night sleep .
Children missing school and friends .
Financial running short
A combination of any of these is enough for the for sale sign to go up.
But for long term cruisers like yourself it take one of the above first three before consider given it up .
The OP sold and moved back because of an unfortunate accident his wife had
I wonder if he would had sold and return if that wasn't the case .
Guessing here but I think he may still be out there.
This posting is referring to British liveaboard ,
Well very few lived 12 months on the boat , many just the summer , others who did winter on board would be away in the hottest months back home .
I can only name a few who have cruisered for some years and still are .
There always a way around stuff ,
Personally I not come across any official rules , laws we not found a way around .
I don't believe people are stopping living their dream , there a lot more family's doing it now ,
We seeing folks as far as China and west indies.Argentina
As I said age comes into it and heath of cause the other main reason is financial,
Especially when they read forum people saying they can cruise for 5/7 K a year only to find out very quickly they can't .
Newcomers don't realise what living on board entails, the first year it's a big adventure, by the time the second winter sets in , realty start to set in .
Wife missing family, friends and her house , men missing work, the comfort of a full night sleep .
Children missing school and friends .
Financial running short
A combination of any of these is enough for the for sale sign to go up.
But for long term cruisers like yourself it take one of the above first three before consider given it up .
The OP sold and moved back because of an unfortunate accident his wife had
I wonder if he would had sold and return if that wasn't the case .
Guessing here but I think he may still be out there.
This posting is referring to British liveaboard ,
Well very few lived 12 months on the boat , many just the summer , others who did winter on board would be away in the hottest months back home .
I can only name a few who have cruisered for some years and still are .
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Tranona
Well-known member
There was still a sizeable minority who took advantage of freedom of movement and lower costs in the Med to live a nomadic life cruising and working all year round. some of these also ended up like the early retirees who after a few years either gave up or settled somewhere cheap like Greece (as it used to be) or Turkey until health, money or just old age forced them back "home". There will be fewer of the former type entering the game because of the removal of freedom to work and fewer of the latter because they are dying off.
Don't forget for many the cruising/liveaboard lifestyle is only one phase of lifetime experience and most end up back on land after a few years - the younger to get back to making money and the older to live out their last few years in relative comfort.
Don't forget for many the cruising/liveaboard lifestyle is only one phase of lifetime experience and most end up back on land after a few years - the younger to get back to making money and the older to live out their last few years in relative comfort.
nortada
Well-known member
Vic, As the OP, you are correct, the accident was the final straw but in touching distance of 80 and courtesy of Covid, having just spent nearly 2 years on board, we stated to question our future.
Whilst we did 20 years cruising, as time went by, we spent less and less time travelling and more time in marinas. This because we found managing a 38ft boat increasingly demanding and became increasingly cautious, averse to taking any risks.
Rather than lamenting the past, we are really enjoying the challenges of settling back in the Old Country and fitting out the latest new addition to the boat inventory - a cheeky little Mayland, with a big engine, which is the tender for the Freeman with even bigger engines.???
I should conclude by saying that Brexit and finances had no part in our decision.
Clancy Moped
Well-known member
Boats are for going places. Looking over my shoulder or waiting for a knock on the hull is not my style. Each to their own...
nortada
Well-known member
Horses for courses.
Boats fill different needs for different people. Just got back from the boatyard where I chatted with an old guy renovating a rather dilapidated old ketch.
Apparently he has been working on this venture for 5 years and hopes to complete and launch next year or in 2024. What then, sail for distant shores
No he plans to sell it and start another boat renovation adventure.Oh yes, he is a Yachtmaster and has has done a Transatlantic and ventured into the Pacific; still a Liveaboard he lives on his other boat, a barge, which ain’t going nowhere.
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Clancy Moped
Well-known member
Your point being?Horses for courses.
Boats fill different needs for different people. Just got back from the boatyard where I chatted with an old guy renovating a rather dilapidated old ketch.
Apparently he has been working on this venture for 5 years and hopes to complete and launch next year or in 2024. What then, sail for distant shores
Oh yes, he is a Yachtmaster and has has done a Transatlantic and ventured into the Pacific; still a Liveaboard he lives on his other boat, a barge, which ain’t going nowhere.
nortada
Well-known member
Horses for courses or boats fill different needs for different (Liveaboard) people.
Clancy Moped
Well-known member
Which answers your own op question?
nortada
Well-known member
Don’t think so. Just one point of view in a broad discussion.
By the way, I am not trying to rent an argument; rather look to where the future is taking us.
A broader debate could be held into life in general as we head to a future in a very different world but not in this forum.
grumpygit
Well-known member
With similar stories to others, we sold our 50 footer in 2016 as my failing joints needed multiple surgery. We ended up buying a property here in Greece because we like the people and the lifestyle. In 2017 I bought a 8m Hunter but even this was wearing because of poor and limited mobility so I have just sold this on also. Whether I get something with an engine to remain on the water, the jury is still out on this.
I find the UK registered boats seem to becoming less in my area (Saronic/Argolic) as the third country rules do make it so difficult but not impossible for, as Vic puts it, long term cruisers.
Like us, I also found the the time scale for being a liveaboard/cruiser is normally around 10 year cycles maximum with a few exceptions. Age is not the common denominator, all ages are out there, some in retirement, 50's+, some in their 30's with or without young families and who plan to go back into employment and the lucky ones that can work remotely and have no real timetable.
I can't say how much longer we would have carried on if disabilities weren't in the equation but the way it's turned out, neither of us regrets the way it has regarding Brexit etc, nothing has happened that can't be overcome, apart from the physical disabilities.
There is one thing I can say, we may be all sailors but we are all very different people with different agenda's but common in what we do or did . . . . .
I find the UK registered boats seem to becoming less in my area (Saronic/Argolic) as the third country rules do make it so difficult but not impossible for, as Vic puts it, long term cruisers.
Like us, I also found the the time scale for being a liveaboard/cruiser is normally around 10 year cycles maximum with a few exceptions. Age is not the common denominator, all ages are out there, some in retirement, 50's+, some in their 30's with or without young families and who plan to go back into employment and the lucky ones that can work remotely and have no real timetable.
I can't say how much longer we would have carried on if disabilities weren't in the equation but the way it's turned out, neither of us regrets the way it has regarding Brexit etc, nothing has happened that can't be overcome, apart from the physical disabilities.
There is one thing I can say, we may be all sailors but we are all very different people with different agenda's but common in what we do or did . . . . .
PlanB
Well-known member
I was a liveaboard in the Med for 12 years, mainly static (but under the radar) Others may criticise our lifestyle, but we loved it. We used to say they would carry us off the boat feet first.
My partner died after a short illness.
Two months later, I was diagnosed with colon cancer.
Through superb treatment in a Spanish hospital, I made a complete recovery.
But I was now a single woman living aboard with few neighbours, none permanent.
A surprise buyer for the boat turned up, so I sold and moved back to the UK.
Then Brexit hit, closely followed by Covid.
Had I still been on the boat at that point, I honestly do not know what I would have done.
I now have a new life, but I never forget the old one.
My partner died after a short illness.
Two months later, I was diagnosed with colon cancer.
Through superb treatment in a Spanish hospital, I made a complete recovery.
But I was now a single woman living aboard with few neighbours, none permanent.
A surprise buyer for the boat turned up, so I sold and moved back to the UK.
Then Brexit hit, closely followed by Covid.
Had I still been on the boat at that point, I honestly do not know what I would have done.
I now have a new life, but I never forget the old one.
Kelpie
Well-known member
As a British flagged boat, invariably the first thing we get asked is a slightly panicked "what are you doing about the 90 days!?"
Fortunately I'm a citizen of an EU member state so we are not time limited. But it clearly is a big problem for many people.
We've only been living aboard full time for a year. We've been quite surprised at how few British boats are around. Given it's one of the larger European countries, with a strong interest in sailing, it's quite under-represented. Masses of Scandinavians, lots of Germans. In the Med, huge numbers of French boats.
When cruising in the UK, we are invariably much younger than the average. Out here, and especially whilst on the Atlantic coast where we were mixing with bluewater boats, that was no longer the case. Plenty younger cruisers who have gone full time.
I just don't think the idea of living in one particular place works unless you have a lot of money behind you, which younger people generally don't. This idea that most liveaboards are resident in an EU country, and own a car, and have a permanent marina berth, and spend several months of each year back home, doesn't at all square with our experience. It's only ever going to be true for the older generation who can afford to do that.
So there are younger liveaboards out there, not as many Brits as you might expect, they just aren't hanging around in Greece or Spain, but are instead heading out bluewater.
Fortunately I'm a citizen of an EU member state so we are not time limited. But it clearly is a big problem for many people.
We've only been living aboard full time for a year. We've been quite surprised at how few British boats are around. Given it's one of the larger European countries, with a strong interest in sailing, it's quite under-represented. Masses of Scandinavians, lots of Germans. In the Med, huge numbers of French boats.
When cruising in the UK, we are invariably much younger than the average. Out here, and especially whilst on the Atlantic coast where we were mixing with bluewater boats, that was no longer the case. Plenty younger cruisers who have gone full time.
I just don't think the idea of living in one particular place works unless you have a lot of money behind you, which younger people generally don't. This idea that most liveaboards are resident in an EU country, and own a car, and have a permanent marina berth, and spend several months of each year back home, doesn't at all square with our experience. It's only ever going to be true for the older generation who can afford to do that.
So there are younger liveaboards out there, not as many Brits as you might expect, they just aren't hanging around in Greece or Spain, but are instead heading out bluewater.
Graham376
Well-known member
UK flags are reducing for two reasons. Quite a few boats have headed back to UK due to 90/180 limitations plus the registry are clamping down on the non UK residents using UK flag for convenience, many of whom now have Polish registration.
Clancy Moped
Well-known member
Wonder how long the Polish loophole will last...
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
Believe it or not Graham there quite a few Brits changing their flag to polish .
Some are having problem reg SSR cos of the new reg , others are finding it better to not fly the red duster
Some are having problem reg SSR cos of the new reg , others are finding it better to not fly the red duster
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
I can see why not . It's a legit reg .
And a good earner for them.
Clancy Moped
Well-known member
Belgium and Holland closed the option...
nortada
Well-known member
Your para 4 was very much our experience. They didn’t have a lot of money but enough to support their chosen life style. Progressive drawer down on pension was one source of income and downsizing the property in the UK another. Some supplemented their boat existence with a motor home to explore further afield in shore.
Agree your take on the age divide.
Younger folk move around more but as they grow older they either return to the Old Country or progressively put down roots and loosen their links with the UK - their olde generation has moved on and their younger generation is more self sufficient.
There is a third stage, where advancing years, health, diminishing finances etc. force a rethink and another tranche move back to the Old Country. The balance die in situ, ashore. Very few die on their boats.
For the future, I believe this situation will continue but I expect for a variety of reasons there will be fewer ‘youngsters’ embarking on many years away. Rather, a midlife (3 to 5 year) adventure before returning to the UK.
Only time will tell but many of us will not be around to see it.
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