1980s French boats

[Neeves]

Long story, we may be jumping ship from our old 1970s Moody centre cockpit to a new boat. Scouring the market, just about everything we can find in the right budget and location is some variety of ~40ft 1980s French AWB.
For example- Jeanneau Sun Fizz, Legende; Beneteau First 38, 405; Gib'Sea 116; 126. Etc.
All these boats are very close in their dimensions and displacement, and they generally have the same sort of layout.

Part of your specification is that the yacht you choose should be in the right location. Why not buy a yacht in the wrong location and move it?

Most of the yachts you list are excellent products, but as mentioned, for families sailing at the weekend, or maybe a week, or for racing. You want a yacht you can live on - and that's not a big enough market for the big boat builders - hence why they are not on your list. The yachts meeting your needs are few and far between.

Its a big decision be a bit more flexible over 'location'

Just an observation

Jonathan

 

[Sea Change]

Why not buy a yacht in the wrong location and move it?

I don't have time to do that.
All my belongings are on the old boat and I need to transfer them across to the new one asap.

 

[lustyd]

I don't have time to do that.
All my belongings are on the old boat and I need to transfer them across to the new one asap.

In that case, any of the above would be fine and will hold whatever value they have well enough if you find something better

 

[dunedin]

....

The First series are built for racing so not even designed for normal cruising let alone living on

Huge generalisation and in some cases entirely misleading - the First 345 Cloud Walker has probably done more log range Artic voyages than almost any other vessel ....
Other intrepid high latitude adventurers, David and Judy Lomax, were also very satisfied with their production GRP Beneteau First 345, Cloud Walker, during their frequent Norwegian and Arctic explorations.

 

[Neeves]

I don't have time to do that.
All my belongings are on the old boat and I need to transfer them across to the new one asap.

Put goods in storage, employ a delivery skipper and have the yacht you actually want delivered to your current location. Or take minimum kit, fly to where your preferred yacht is located (its obviously not one on your list) sail back.

It seems you are sacrificing what you want for the convenience of location.

Jonathan

 

[lustyd]

Huge generalisation

design principles are always huge generalisations. You can use any boat you like, but taking a cruiser/racer to the arctic doesn't mean it wasn't designed with racing in mind.

 

[Neeves]

Long story, we may be jumping ship from our old 1970s Moody centre cockpit to a new boat. Scouring the market, just about everything we can find in the right budget and location is some variety of ~40ft 1980s French AWB.
For example- Jeanneau Sun Fizz, Legende; Beneteau First 38, 405; Gib'Sea 116; 126. Etc.
All these boats are very close in their dimensions and displacement, and they generally have the same sort of layout.

What would life actually be like as a full time liveaboard on one of these? We were spoiled on the Moody. Despite being less than 39ft long it had three double cabins, and the aft cabin in particular was generous and comfortable.

I've been chatting to a First 38 owner and I'm worried that the berths on these boats just won't be big enough for full time living. I'm not really in a position to view a variety of different boats, but I'm starting to wonder if these boats just aren't suitable.

Any thoughts or experiences very welcome...

My analysis is that the Moody is a write off and you are under pressure to find a new home (to replace the Moody). All the yachts that are 'for sale' are those on your list and are conveniently located, to where you are now. None of the yachts you list will replace the Moody, you will need to compromise - I'd be extending my geographic limits - the yacht is more important than the convenience of location, compromise location not the yacht.

But we are all different

I sympathise with your dilemma, tough one.

Jonathan

 

[lustyd]

the yacht is more important than the convenience of location

you missed off "in a perfect world" Sometimes we have to play the hand we're dealt.

 

[dunedin]

design principles are always huge generalisations. You can use any boat you like, but taking a cruiser/racer to the arctic doesn't mean it wasn't designed with racing in mind.

Have you sailed a First 345 or similar generation boats? I have, cruising with a young family. They were used as Sunsail charter boats back in the day. As well as Cloud Walker doing regular long trips north of the Artic Circle, for perhaps 2 decades.
Very practical cruising interiors, solidly built.
Completely different from a 21st century First, which is indeed more race focussed

 

[geem]

Huge generalisation and in some cases entirely misleading - the First 345 Cloud Walker has probably done more log range Artic voyages than almost any other vessel ....
Other intrepid high latitude adventurers, David and Judy Lomax, were also very satisfied with their production GRP Beneteau First 345, Cloud Walker, during their frequent Norwegian and Arctic explorations.

Of course you can use a First but the OP is looking for a boat to house his family with space for storage as a liveaboard. A friend sailed an 18ft Hurley across the pond and back and a 21ft cat sailed around the world. It doesn't make them good choices

 

[Gixer]

Jeanneau Sun Fizz
Delivered one across the Atlantic. Aft cabin will be disappointing compared to the Moody. I can't remember if it had one or two aft cabins, I only recall one. The boat was fitted out for racing with spindly mast.

I sailed on one for a few years, club racing and a few channel crossings, the layout on that one was three cabins and two heads. It was comfortable and safe, other than that was non descript. A classic AWB

Oh, it had a huge spinnaker which would scare the crap out of me as an inexperienced foredeck man!

 

[dunedin]

Of course you can use a First but the OP is looking for a boat to house his family with space for storage as a liveaboard. A friend sailed an 18ft Hurley across the pond and back and a 21ft cat sailed around the world. It doesn't make them good choices

See post #29. Have you sailed on a 20th century First 345 or other boats in this generation? I have, as well as two Moody yachts.
And as noted Cloud Walker did extremely challenging extended cruising in waters generally rougher than an Atlantic circuit.

 

[RupertW]

Ours is a Jeanneau 42.2 which is the same hull as a Voyage but with a different internal layout. It had a hard life chartered for 10 years before we bought it and lots of individual domestic systems have needed replacing, some more than once as we’ve had the boat 14 years.

It does the job but needs to be sailed differently to a 70s narrower hulled boat and differently again to a modern plumb bowed very wide sterned boat.

I would say the weakest part is the steering system but that’s a mixture of wear and tear and a very poor rudder bracket design which everyone has to replace, preferably with a much better design as we did.

Hull and rig seem to take anything we can throw at it, and with 600l water capacity and a lot of storage it’s more boat that we need but very pleasant on longer trips to have the room. Having a separate bunk bed cabin as well as the normal 3 doubles is great, mostly for shelved storage, and a second heads has been mostly very convenient and occasionally very important when one of the heads develops an issue and the weather is rough.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Long story, we may be jumping ship from our old 1970s Moody centre cockpit to a new boat. Scouring the market, just about everything we can find in the right budget and location is some variety of ~40ft 1980s French AWB.
For example- Jeanneau Sun Fizz, Legende; Beneteau First 38, 405; Gib'Sea 116; 126. Etc.
All these boats are very close in their dimensions and displacement, and they generally have the same sort of layout.

What would life actually be like as a full time liveaboard on one of these? We were spoiled on the Moody. Despite being less than 39ft long it had three double cabins, and the aft cabin in particular was generous and comfortable.

I've been chatting to a First 38 owner and I'm worried that the berths on these boats just won't be big enough for full time living. I'm not really in a position to view a variety of different boats, but I'm starting to wonder if these boats just aren't suitable.

Any thoughts or experiences very welcome...

Where are you exactly? ... a liveaboard for cold climate or warm climate sailing will be quite different. If you need to shelter from the elements most of the time then find an older motor-sailer ... if you want sunshine, al-fresco dining with friends, swimming, and showering on the swim platform, then the larger cockpit and easy access to the dinghy/water will be a revelation compared to the Moody. No one should need to climb up their topsides and scramble through a jungle-gym in this day and age.

 

[geem]

See post #29. Have you sailed on a 20th century First 345 or other boats in this generation? I have, as well as two Moody yachts.
And as noted Cloud Walker did extremely challenging extended cruising in waters generally rougher than an Atlantic circuit.

To small for long term liveaboard. We have mostly been liveaboard for the last 10 years. We know how much space we need

 

[Baggywrinkle]

People generally adapt to the boat they have, and switch if it becomes no longer tolerable if they have the means to up-size their living space or change the parts of the boat that are getting on their nerves. Everyone is different in terms of what they want and need.

We could have lived aboard our old Bav36, but I'd rather not have - not enough space for a water-maker or a washing machine unless I had sacrificed one of the cabins - my parents lived on a Finnsailer 35 - and before the modern collection of floating sea-front appartments came along, people made do with damp floating caves of all shapes and sizes. My personal opinion is that the OP needs to make a list of his own personal criteria and assess each prospective boat against that.

This was mine as an example ...

Usage and Budget ….

Budget: €XXX VAT PAID with €XXX for Re-Fit
Mediterranean live aboard.
Extended cruising, don't sail to a fixed schedule, will avoid bad weather.
Mainly anchoring, avoid marinas, swimming & showering often.
No interest in northern/southern cold weather or heavy weather sailing.
Might do an Atlantic crossing later.

Dealbreakers … MUST HAVE!

12,50 -13,99m LOA
White textured gelcoat decks.
Dry, clean bilges, no water under the floor, no leaks or drainage into bilges.
At least 3 private sleeping cabins (bunks OK) - sleep 6 in comfort without saloon.
Clean contemporary interior - must be bright and airy with plenty of windows and light.
Freezer or space for a freezer.
Chart Table/Desk - big enough for use as a home office and nav station.
2 heads
Seperate shower cubicle that can be closed off - preferably no sink or toilet in shower area.
Roller furling main - furling from cockpit.
Twin helm with wide walkthrough into main cockpit
Big aft cockpit - must seat at least 8 in comfort and safety underway and 10+ for entertaining.
Big bimini/sprayhood - plenty of shade
Big, sturdy cockpit table
Swim platform or sugar scoop stern with swim ladder and shower.
Space for a Watermaker.
Engine with enough reserve power/space for additional high-output alternator (Integrel).
Front Opening Fridge in addition to freezer.

Dealbreakers …. MUST NOT HAVE!!!

Teak Deck
Sun damaged caulking on cockpit teak causing black stains.
DIY disasters - random equipment/decorations fixed all over the inside of the boat.
Screw holes, discoloured veneer, damaged interior wood from removed equipment/decorations, hard use.
Damp/Mould/Leaks or bad smells - no wet bilges.
Large repairs from accident damage (Grounding/Heavy collision)
Water damaged or rotten balsa core, exterior screws into balsa core, exposed balsa core, non-original deck fittings.
Keel problems (leaking or suspect keel bolts - ineffective sealant - waterlogged encapsulated keel).
Excess moisture in the hull/deck or rudder
Water stained interior wood or signs of water ingress.
Leaking windows, vents, fittings.
Engine oil leaks/fluid leaks/smoke/starting problems
Electrical DIY disasters - amateur wiring or bodges
Solar Panels glued or screwed to deck - holes in deck.
Extensive use of non-marine grade wire in electrical system.
De-laminating furniture, plastic veneer peeling off cupboard doors, broken hinges/retainers
Main sheet or traveller in or near cockpit occupants or helm.
An obstacle course between the companionway and the dinghy.
Varnished exterior woodwork.

Wanted features ….

Solid wood / veneered marine ply below decks
Teak in cockpit (if in good condition)
4th cabin with bunks.
L-shaped galley
White fiberglass hull, not painted or wrapped.
Built in last 10 years.
Master cabin with good view outside.
Main, genoa and code zero sheets/winches accessible from helm.
Engine control on binnacle, not floor.
Water Tankage over 400l.
Fuel tank over 200l.

Wanted Mods/Extras …. The more the better

Electric or Hydraulic bathing platform.
Big robust arch on stern with dinghy davits, solar, outboard crane.
Cool box in cockpit or ability to fit one
Furling Code Zero or equivalent.
Folding Prop.
Radar
Bowthruster
Air Conditioning/Heating
Double anchor roller
Windlass drum usable with anchor locker closed.
Midship cleats and gates in guard rails.
Electric winches
Self tacking jib
Washing machine or space to fit one
Upgraded engine option
Windlass remote, Chain counter
Cockpit Tent

Not important if reflected in lower price ….

Condition of cooker
Condition of toilets
Condition of sails
Condition of sprayhood/bimini
Condition of mattresses/upholstery
Condition of anchor/chain
Condition of safety equipment
Condition of running rigging
Condition of seacocks and through hulls.
Condition of antifouling
Condition/Age of electrical equipment/instruments

 

[Baggywrinkle]

.... We have mostly been liveaboard for the last 10 years. We know how much space we need

I would hope so .... but do you know how much the OP needs?

 

[ashtead]

This thread seems a bit like unpeeling an onion but to summarise the OP seems to be in some WI island and has a narrow timescale to decamp to a new vessel. I cannot see a budget mentioned (apologies if I’ve missed ) but say50k USD maybe ? A desire not to collect a vessel from another island maybe? So say it’s St Lucia would that help narrow down choices ? Maybe with a budget and location and a distance the search will be simple. It certainly can work like that if say you want a 40ft stern cockpit boat in uk say within 100 miles of Portsmouth at a certain price and age etc.

 

[lustyd]

the OP seems to be in some WI island and has a narrow timescale to decamp to a new vessel

Boat was hit by Beryl, discussed in a previous thread. Boat yard shenanigans ensued so I imagine he has good reasons for everything here but very likely doesn’t want to talk about it. I know I wouldn’t after that stress!

 

[geem]

I would hope so .... but do you know how much the OP needs?

Yes. Rob needs as much space has he had on his Moody 39, I would think