Seeking advice for buying a decent "budget" cruising catamaran

[ridgy]

If you are practical and like getting your hands dirty I would investigate options for building, or having built.
At the smaller end a Woods Vardo can be stretched to 11m:
Sailing Catamarans - Vardo 10.4m performance cruiser

Material costs about 20k plus rig, sails, 2x outboards etc

If going bigger a Dix 430:
https://dixdesign.com/43cat.htm

In kit form for about 50k plus rig, sails etc
DIX430/380

Ideas for the interior:
Dix 430 Catamaran

And there is a yard in Greece that specialises in this type of construction for maybe sensible money:
https://www.woodtecboats.gr/index.html


Both designers are performance oriented. Having the structure built for you and then fitting out yourself might be an economic way to get a new boat.

 

[Mudisox]

Look at a Comanche, 6-7kts two double cabins, and and 2 engines. Reasonable price.

Contact me for more info, - you'll be surprised.

Bridgedeck clearance is important for quiet nights and passages.

 

[StefanSG]

Can you get to Multihull World in the UK ? They often have a range of cats to stand up and wander around so you can compare. I really like the look of the Broadblue 346 but sadly that’s a long way out of your budget.
As other have said, better to find the shoe that fits rather than trying to get the shoe adjusted !

SSG (Snowgoose 35 owner)

 

[cherod]

Bridgedeck clearance is important for quiet nights and passages.

I suspect that was a bit of a typo or so , i think what was meant ( reading into the post ) was head hight in the saloon.

 

[NinaT]

If you are in anyway used to a performance boat then you will be suicidal within the day of purchasing any Prouts , Solaris or anything else of that style . Most of the production boats are similar . There are boats on the market which have performance / fun and are comfortable and safe .2 which come to mind are Outramer and beneteau blue 2 , the outremer is a little bit bigger , has more performance , more room but bit more to handle , and is bit more expensive . Conveniently there is a rather nice Blue 2 for sale on Denmark ( google is your friend ) just now which is actually below your stated budget , , an Outremer is prob 110k£+ for a decent one . These boats are a fair age now but can still be in very good condition . My own blue 2 is rock solid ( built in the period of thick fibreglass ) while still being light , ( 3 ton iirc ) i maybe a bit biased but for me it is the bargain of the sea . Or look for Outremer 38

What are your experiences with the quality of the Blue 2? They look actually quit nice, and I've heard they sail good. But I've also heard they tend to have some quality issues - with "cracks" in the fiberglass on the bridge and problems around where the hulls are attached to the bridgedeck. Also, the indoor saloon is pretty small isn't it?

 

[NinaT]

Entirely subjective. You will rarely get unbiased opinions regarding catamarans but you have asked about Snowgoose 37 in particular. I have had various boats, monohulls and multihulls and in fact built and owned a 37 myself. to try and give an unbiased opinion is difficult but here goes.
1. On the performance side they are safe and easy to sail single handed. they will perform very well downwind and with or without a spinnaker will match most monohulls and outpace many. I have often had the 37 over 12 knots downwind but that's about as fast as you will go. I used a rule of achieving 50% of wind speed in anything up to that. To windward they are not good, frankly most cats are not unless you get a high performance jobbie with centreboards which I guess from your post you are not looking for. There are other cruising cats that will perform better to windward than Prouts but frankly nobody buys a cat for sparkling performance to windward and there is not a great deal in it. Tacking through the wind is pretty horrible!
2. With the solid foredeck slamming in any sort of sea is common but its not a problem. Most cats will " hobbyhorse" a bit but the absence of roll is a great compensating factor. Prouts have gone across oceans with ease and are super tradewind sailboats with the ability to hold a course with ease in most conditions. If in really extreme conditions streaming a sea anchor is easy. I once rode out a hurricane in the southern Atlantic in mine with a sea anchor out and a bottle of single malt!! While I had crew it was just my wife and I and we just shut all hatches and rode it out.....
There are indeed other cats that will perform better, but very few that are safer.
3. Don't concern yourself with bridgedeck clearance. The clearance in both hulls is enormous and that's where most work is done. Mostly the bridgedeck is where you sit or sleep.
4. Yes twin diesels are preferable for manoeuvring and I have seen them built with anything up to 25 HP x2 which will also give you motor sailing performance to windward but don't forget the penalty of extra weight. Cats don't like to be overloaded and although one of Prouts advantages is load bearing hull shape if you overdo it they sill sail like a pudding.
Summing up they are wonderful livaboard boats and very safe at sea. Easy to sail single handed and delightful downwind. If ultimate performance is important though there are others to choose from but most are much more money. On a modest budget they are hard to beat. That's why they are one of the most successful production cats ever built. Hope this helps. Any other questions you may have don't hesitate to PM me

Thanks alot for the qualified and detailed inputs! If we come to the point of looking more specifically at boats to buy, are there any known "issues" with the Snowgoose that one should look out for? I've heard that the Silette driveleg is a bit of concern? Have you any preferences to the standard versus the Elite model?

 

[NinaT]

I don't think that is the case in the EU as they seem to have retained the pre 1998 EEA exemption - but if course best to confirm with local customs before committing

Thanks - We definitively have to make check the rules!

 

[NinaT]

There is a nice looking Prout 37 for sale in Mallorca (EU paid) at a 1/4 of your budget - take a look at the Prout Owners facebook page where its noted for sale. I think there are 3 or 4 more there for sale right now too and lots of experienced owners

I noted the down side of twin engines in your other post . The downside of the Silette leg is that many of the parts are no longer being made so you need to be sure to find a good condition one or it may become redundant .

Though generally not a practical / viable option (yet), I wonder if twin electric drives could be considered if seeking to re-engine a Prout cat to change from single to twin drives? The drives would be quite light weight so would avoid the “weight in the stern” issue raised above. And perhaps batteries could be positioned slightly further forward - albeit not too far due to cable sizes needed.
But undoubtedly buying a different type of cat already equipped with twin diesels in good condition would be much cheaper and simpler (engine wise).

I really fancy the concept of electrical engines and big solar panels on the roof.... However, I don't think it's really there yet.

 

[NinaT]

Having gone down much the same route a year or two ago - we sold our much loved ocean going mono and moved to a cat for much the same reasons as the o.p. I though I'd add my observations. We originally thought that a Prout would fit the bill but had real problems finding one in sensible condition and were finally disappointed by one which failed it's survey comprehensively. The surveyor suggested we look at Solaris which we had previously ignored and we finished up buying one. I wold not be against buying a Prout in the right condition as Ive always had a soft spot for them.
When we were searching we spoke to the owner of the 37 in Mallorca mentioned by Trident and it seemed a well cared for boat - just in thw wrong place.
I'd not like to claim that either Prout or Solaris are the better boat - both have pros and cons. We have put together a web site - here which attempts to provide an objective assessment of the two brands which you may find helpful. Please bear in mind that we own a Solaris, so may be unconsciously biased. ;-)

Thank you so much. I've browsed through your very nice webpage!! And found so many fit between your experiences and the questions we have. Did you also do a comparison of head room in the saloon of the two? I have a feeling that the Solaris might be slightly better here? Anyway, not so many Solaris for sale these days. I've learned that there is a Prout owner FB group. Anything similar for Solaris?

 

[cherod]

What are your experiences with the quality of the Blue 2? They look actually quit nice, and I've heard they sail good. But I've also heard they tend to have some quality issues - with "cracks" in the fiberglass on the bridge and problems around where the hulls are attached to the bridgedeck. Also, the indoor saloon is pretty small isn't it?

Owner for 7 years … . ( as you prob know ) they are made from 3 sections held together with 3 massive mast sections , 2 being structural and one at the bow being primarily for rigging but also somewhat structural , like 2 canoe section ( hulls ) with a “ pod “ being attached in the centre . Ok , you get good and you can get bad , one famous one ( no names on public forum , pm for details ) has surveyed pretty bad with water in ( iirc ) 40% of the hulls . Some ( i have been told ) leak rain water at the hull to pod join , i have a little leak on both sides but nothing bad and only when particularly heavy continuous rain , i have been told that some have been sealed just basically with fibre glass along the top seam but mine is not bad enough to bother, ( a couple of bits of cardboard strategically placed is all i need ) . Strong ? Like a brick shit house wall . I have no cracking on the centre pod nor in the hulls , and significantly not on the beam location points , and i have experienced some pretty fierce weather in the North Sea and round the north of scotland . The mast and rigging are similarly strong ( believe me i have tested it ) . It is a simple 3 wire 3/4 rig with aft sloping stays , ( think 13 mm and i have fitted running back stays for aditional location when flying spinaker ) . All ( most ) lines run to cockpit . Mine ( gho others may differ ) has a large fully battened main sail with large roach and very strongly constructed , with ( ?? ) 120 / 130 (+ ) genoa , ( please see photo ) Saloon ? , well mine is a little different to most , or maybe all others , in that it has an extend saloon which includes a “ galley up “ ( game changer ) wheras others have galley down , with a smaller cockpit area but still large enough ( Maybe not so good for Mediterranean party types but suits my requirements ) , I cant compare tho that was one if the things which influenced my decision as opposed to other ones which were available at the time . With mine most of the interior lining has been removed exposing some ( visually ) pretty poor looking glass lay up but at 35 year old build with no structural defects i will say it has proved its structural integrity . There are some other ( perhaps ) one off additions / modifications on mine , some of which came with the boat others ( which i considered necessary ) i have added . It has 2 fully independent ( cable ) wheel steering positions and two independent engines , 9 hp ( tho some have fitted 18 ) 1 gm yanmar which gives 5 - 6 kn cruising and remarkably punchy in adverse conditions , independent 5 gal fuel tanks , consumption is almost nothing , handles like a go cart under motor or sail and due to twin propellors will turn on its own length in harbour Speed ? As fast as you want and different league to prout / solaris era of boat . Looks ? well that speaks for it self ( tho that is subjective ) , got the european boat of the year on first year of production , if that means anything . Ok there are lots of other nice boats out there , many one offs , home build etc but not easy to find . ( as i said before ) in my opinion , the Outremer 38 tho quite a bit more expensive , depending on condition of course , is the only other cat that i can think of that can compare . It does seem that many have different ( lets say ) layouts with different things like types of windows , some have solar arches , dingy davits , foredeck trampoline etc , Down sides ( being honest ) are few , the double beds in the hulls are a little on the small side tho perfectly adequate ( unless you are XXL size !! ) , side deck clearance / walk way is bit awkward as side stay gets in way , but again manageable , bridgedeck clearance could be better with some slamming in short choppy seas ,( and or storms ) again not too bad . All in all ( again i maybe biased ) but within its price range it can not be beaten . I have the name and contact number of a gentleman who is in the know of most used multi hulls currently for sale , very nice gentleman , i will dig it out and post

 

[Neeves]

I find the title of the thread something of a contradiction, 'decent budget' and 'catamaran' would be unusual bedmates in a sentence. We owned a Lightwave 38 (another Australian builder).

I think it is, well, outside your budget but Seawind (well known in Australia) have opened a production facility in Turkey, I think initially focussed at their 1160 model. Seawind moved their production from Australia to Vietnam, apparently a success, and this is a further development.

Seawind Catamarans to open Production Facility and European Service Center in Izmir, Turkey. - Seawind Catamarans Blog

I think the facility is up and running.

If nothing else they will provide serious competition for Lagoon et al and maybe increase standards.

Jonathan

 

[cherod]

Some indication of “ budget “ was given in the OP at 150k£ max ,, unfortunatly that would buy less than half of a new Seawind , and even an older used one runs around 180 min , ( and they have outboard engines , not everyones choice ) . The market in Oz may be a bit different to that of northern europe .

 

[Neeves]

I'd seen the budget. One reason for outboards - they are light, don't take up the space of an inboard, can be lifted to reduce drag and are cheaper - inboards are not everyone's choice. . Our Lightwave had inboards. When we were looking, over 20 years, ago, we looked at Prout but they went under, and we went for Lightwave, having chartered the 'little' Seawind 1000.

Undoubtedly the markets are different, plumbed in heating is but one example.

Jonathan

 

[pessimist]

Thank you so much. I've browsed through your very nice webpage!! And found so many fit between your experiences and the questions we have. Did you also do a comparison of head room in the saloon of the two? I have a feeling that the Solaris might be slightly better here? Anyway, not so many Solaris for sale these days. I've learned that there is a Prout owner FB group. Anything similar for Solaris?

Glad it was helpful. I don't have empirical date but there is definitely slightly better headroom on the Solaris; it does, however, reduce as you move forward in the saloon. Should also mention that the entrance to the Solaris is considerably taller than the Prouts. Sadly no Solaris groups (that I'm aware of).