Sailboat in the Inland Waterways?

[chrismckesson]

Greetings. I am an American living aboard a 36 ft sailboat in Puget Sound, in the northwest corner of the USA.

In 2008 we fancy spending 9 months or a year in the UK, and our plan is to buy a boat there, cruise as planned, and then sell her.

At the moment, being a sailor and not familiar with the local issues, my 'baseline' boat is a Westerly Centaur. (my budget is around Eu10k.)

But now I have started thinking about the inland waterways. Whilst I could easily fit a Centaur with a lowering mast, and her 3-ft draft appears reasonable, her 8.5 ft beam would preclude some channels, such as the Northampton Branch of the GU.

Query:

Am I silly to think of a sailboat on the inland waterways? WOuld I be better served to buy a small narrowboat? Can one buy a narrowboat for 10k? (One of my 'hobbies' is installing electric drive in boats. My 36ft sailboat has electric propulsion. Would it be crazy to envision buying a small narrowboat sans engine, and installing electric drive therein? Would that increase or diminish her resale value?)

As you can see, I have a broad range of questions all of which are very 'newbie' oriented. I look forward to hearing an equally broad range of opinions in response!

Much thanks

Chris McKesson

 

[byron]

Hi there and welcome.
Firstly, forget sailboats and any British inland waterways. If not precluded by height and width then depth will be a problem. Some canals are 3'6" deep and even less.
If you really wish to tour England using the canals then yes a Narrowboat will be ideal. As to prices and electrification, I haven't got a clue. You could start by looking on these sites:-
www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk
http://www.waterways.org.uk/

 

[chuckaduck]

byron !!!!!!!

I am shocked !!!!

Have you gone over to the dark side

and become an advocate of ditch crawling !!!!!!!!!!!

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Opsguy1979]

Hi Chris

Im on the River Ouse in England this runs from the Wash to Bedford. Draught wouldnt be a problem here and my beam is 10ft which is fine. But canals would be tricky.

As for a narrowboat unforuntaly 10k would not get you anything that ive seen. I very rarely se anything less than 30k.

Cheers Karl

 

[boatone]

Hi Chris
I would agree with Byron that a narrowboat would be a much better bet if you want to cruise the canal system.
THIS SITE will give you some ideas re types of boats and costs. Also links there to other useful info.
My personal feeling is that you will find it difficult to get anything comfortable for 9 months cruising for £10k though. You may find a small fibreglass cruiser for that sort of money but airdraft may be a problem and I wouldnt want to liveaboard for several months.

 

[chrismckesson]

Karl, it looks like from the Wash I could access a large network north and west...pretty much everything EXCEPT the GU, yes?

And then we could go down the outside to the Thames, should we desire, and open a new network there. Being an ocean cruiser (never having 'ditch crawled' before) this feels like the best of both worlds, if it's feasible.

The Westerly Centaur is 3ft draft and 8.5ft beam. I don't know her air draft but I would be surprised if it exceeded 7 ft...my 36 footer doesn't. And a Centaur can be had for <10k.

Why are narrowboats so expensive - are they highly sought after? That could be a good thing, in that my desire is not to hold her for a lifetime, but merely enjoy a long season and then resell. Is it a seller's market in narrowboats, unlike the buyer's market in sailboats?

Regarding use of a sailboat in the waterways: With the mast down the spar will stick out astern a fair distance - might easily be ten feet or more. Would this be a hazard? Clearly one can tie a red flag or equivalent to it, but still... Or do you in fact occasionally see sailboats in the rivers?

I appreciate all suggestions!

Chris McKesson

 

[Opsguy1979]

Thats exactly what you can do from the Ouse you have the River Nene this is across the fens (middle level navigation) also the river Cam where you can get into Cambridge. You can then indeed go out of the wash around the coast into the Thames. Dont forget you can go into the Norfolk Broads at Great Yarmouth which are well worth a visit on your way round to the Thames.

You do see sail boats on the broards and the Thames from time to time. On the Ouse anything under 8ft airdraft and you will be fine. I have a Princess 32. Although the mast sticking out by 10ft could cause problems in locks etc.

Narrowboats are a very big thing in England! I would almost say its is def a sellers market. I have looked at a few and even for 30k it gets you to be honest still a bit of a wreck.

Although sounds like an amazing trip your planning and if you find your way on to the Ouse drop me a line for a pint

Karl

 

[byron]

[ QUOTE ]
byron !!!!!!!

I am shocked !!!!

Have you gone over to the dark side

and become an advocate of ditch crawling !!!!!!!!!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive me father for I have sinned for I knoweth that it is harder for a Narrowboat to pass through the eye of a needle than a Princess 65. Let he who has not sinned cast the first mud weight at me.

Seriously, here is one of our American cousins wishing to see the UK by boat. What better way to do it than by canals. Yes! I loathe NBs but not when they are in the right environment.
Had it been a personal choice I would prefer to sail around Britain thus visiting Scotland, Ireland and Wales too.

 

[byron]

Chris. Just one thing, we work in pounds here not euros. I'm sure you know but a rough calculation is $2 = £1.
Also when you buy stuff you MAY be able to claim the 17½% Value Added Tax back. I'm not sure how you do this but maybe someone here can advise you. There is no VAT on a 2nd hand boat anyway.

 

[chrismckesson]

THanks for all the advice.

Yes, I was aware of the currency issue, but my bank account is in Euros at Lloyds TSB (IOM)...hence a Euro budget.

I have visited England a couple of times, enough to know that we fancy an extended visit, and what better way to do it than by boat?

Here in the USA my wife and I divide our time six months living on our boat and six months in our RV (caravan.) I thought that canal-ing in the UK might effectively combine those two.

I am a naval architect by profession, and indeed a member of the Royal Institution of Naval Architects. That a pound or two will get me a pint at any good pub!

All the best to you all,

Chris McKesson

 

[Brayman]

Slightly more than a pound (sterling) in Yorkshire will get you a good pint, but you'll be looking at nearly £3 down south I'm afraid.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

If you treated it as "lost" money you could hire a narrowboat for a fair old while on your budget. You would get a significantly higher level of comfort than an outright purchase and, provided it was under 55' long, all the interconnected system would be open to you. However, a big BUT, the hiring authorities will look with disfavur on any attempts to crtuise tidal waters which would preclude Teddington-Brentford/Limehouse and out of the Trent into the Humber to quote but two examples. EU10K is about £6700 at today's prices and you won't get much cruiser for that. Best you might hope for would be something like an aged Norman 24 or similar.

 

[Bilgediver]

One of our club members sailed a Westerly Centaur from Edinburgh down to Hull then across the country to the River Mersey and Liverpool and then up to the Clyde and back to Edinburgh through the Forth and Clyde Canal.

It seems that even when canals are advertised as having certain depths of water this frequently is not the case and he spent a lot of time dealing with shallow water submerged shopping trollies and sunken cars.

I think you need to study the canal system carefully as although a Westerly Centaur might might have a low enough airdraft etc the water draft might frequently be more than the actual water depths found.

I have walked beside the Grand Union at Harefiled for instance and would need wheel to get to the Coy Carp for dinner as the canal is hardly 3 ft deep in mid stream

There are various canal discussion groups and one that is well frequented by knowledgable folk is.. uk.rec.waterways

This is a news group on usenet and I would suggest putting your question here.

I suspect even at 3 FT the Centaur will not have a trouble free passage and even though a trip up the non tidal part of the Thames is achievable the splayed bilge keels mean that you will come to a rest a long way from the bank, once the flood waters subside. Hope you are good at walking a long gangplank.

You will of course be excluded from most canals by both beam and draft.

John

Ps dont forget that one you are stocked up with beer and other necesities the draft is nearer 3ft 6" in old money

 

[TrueBlue]

No Way

You'll get to see a lot of England and Wales from these "small gauge" canal systems, but they are not really suitable for anything but steel construction.

Narrowboats are expensive - as is most boating in the UK - but particularly because most folk buy them as alternative to a holiday home, so they come with lots of creature comforts. In the less expensive ones these comforts are a bit rickety and basic. Otherwise it's a matter of supply and demand.

However, I have what may seem like a really stupid suggestion, but which may get you thought (and others) working:-

I have seen several "vehicle" called a "caraboat" or "carafloat" around the system. They are incredibly small but have wheels so that they can be towed - behind a Winebago. The former are not popular so it is quite possible for an example to be picked up for a song.

Does anyone here ave any suggestions - even a NoNo?

 

[boatone]

Re: No Way

[ QUOTE ]
I have seen several "vehicle" called a "caraboat" or "carafloat" around the system. They are incredibly small but have wheels so that they can be towed - behind a Winebago. The former are not popular so it is quite possible for an example to be picked up for a song.

Does anyone here ave any suggestions - even a NoNo?

[/ QUOTE ]

Read all about them and Their Club!

Also do a google for 'caraboat' will turn up quite a lot including some for sale /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[TrueBlue]

Thanks \"One\"

I thought somebody might come up with something! I must say I was expecting hoots of derision. I made the initial post because there used to be one on the river Wey at Addlestone called "Ron's A Wey", and I saw an immaculate version on the Thames at Henley just before the floods started, so they obviously work.

Returning to the original enquiry the narrow and broad canals are stuffed full of interesting places to see, but have solitude as well. BUT the craft using them must be very sturdy. The infrastructure (locks laybyes and the track) was built for solid barges and even if you are very careful you will sustain scuffs and bangs. As the narrow locks are only nominally 4 inches wider than the boats, you can't use fenders to protect the gelcoat.

To me there is some magic in mooring up in the centre of a town or city like Oxford or Birmingham. After the normal daytime traffic has ceased, it's surprising how quiet these places can be. I wouldn't dream of visiting the above places by car but it's great by boat.

Perhaps if the originator comes back we can discuss the details at length. A very ow cost solution, however, is unlikely.

 

[boatone]

Re: Thanks \"One\"

[ QUOTE ]
I thought somebody might come up with something! I must say I was expecting hoots of derision. I made the initial post because there used to be one on the river Wey at Addlestone called "Ron's A Wey", and I saw an immaculate version on the Thames at Henley just before the floods started, so they obviously work.

[/ QUOTE ]
Knew 'Ron's A Wey' quite well as for several years I kept a Norman 32 at the Pelican fingers at Addlestone and he was just a few yards downstream.

 

[chrismckesson]

Re: Thanks \"One\"

THanks fellas! Your comments are confirming my interest in the waterways, but I take with your interest the comments about robust scuff-tolerant construction.

Hmmmm... My budget is adequate for a coastal cruiser (sailboat) but inadequate for a "proper" canal boat...and I can't afford to consider it 'lost.' I wonder if I could find a coastal cruiser that was perhaps a home built or other 'rough' craft that could take this... I fear I shall have to ponder further.

Have you read Weston Martyr's -L200 Millionaire? If so, then you will see the sort of fantasy I am contemplating.

Much thanks to all - I shall continue to think on this subject. Advice still sought.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: Thanks \"One\"

Have a look at www.boatshop24.co.uk under Dawncraft. Some possibilities. GRP cruiser but widespread on the inland network and fit the 7' locks. Might be old, might be "loved" but might also be a bargain.

 

[TrueBlue]

Re: Thanks \"One\"

Chris,
Forget any idea of adapting a sailing boat to the canals - too much draft and the wrong underwater shape. You need something that is rectangular in shape (for the most part). The UK canal system has depths of around 2 feet and the track profile is "V" shaped. Maximum speed - on the deeper sections is about 4mph and average 2.5 - 3 mph. If you go faster you'll create a helluva wash, destroy the banks and upset the locals.

As you live on a smallish boat I suspect you are not looking for luxury, so perhaps a Dawncraft might suit. Pretty compact though. I'm not up on small cruisers but a call to Sheridan Marine (click here) might produce a low cost Freeman - not unlike (?) the craft suggested by Andrew. It's worth an email or phone call for some advice.

BTW Beam should be 6' 10" not 7' - that's the lock width and a bit approximate on some canals. Have a look on www.waterscape.com for a flavour (if you haven't done already).

Also bear in mind that things like boats over here are not buy and go, you'll need insurance, and the dreaded BSS. Dealers usually wait until a sale is made before fixing anything. Not much good for a chap in a hurry.

Enough for today...

Dawncraft on eBay here


And a Freeman...