Sailboat in the Inland Waterways?

[ianc1200]

Re: Thanks \"One\"

I remember the sailing narrowboat, sailed by a Lord, and seeing it going upstream through Henley Bridge (this is many years ago); there was some mechanism to drop the mast without leaving the stern, and there was a feature in Waterways World.

BTW Byron, following your comment above, and previous offers to boat clubs staying at yours, I understand the Henley and Shiplake Liveaboard NB owners club are going to make an approach.

About 10 boats going through Henley this morning so far, all heading downstream. Hobbs now running their trip boats, and Freeboom starting to collect the runaway booms.

IanC

 

[mandarin]

Hi
Narrow canals are 7' 00" wide, wide canals 14' 00" most boat therefor are 6' 10" or 13' 6". The width is governed by the locks, the maximum length of boat is 72' 00" BUT not all locks are that long some wide canals have shorter locks of 60' 00".
The "go anywere" size is 57' 00" by 6' 10" beam with about a 5' 00" air draft. On modern canal boats the normal draft is less than 2' 00" The most popular canal with our transatlantic cousins The Llangollan has a warning at it start not to continue if your draft is greater than 2' 00". The Grand Union out of London is a wide canal but it is not really posible to navigate it with a wide boat much further than I think Hemel Hampsted (a few years ago British Waterways were accused of actively making pinch points).
For £10K you would get something you could not resell easily it would be 40 years old and be worn out, you would spend your 9 months making it fit for use. Unless you are happy to have just a floating tent. They are not expensive when compared to sea going craft, with the same level of refinments i.e no modern boat goes without fridge/freezer, satillite TV, micro wave, full size domestic cookers and ovens or Aga's, full 230Volt mains power from either inverters or built in generator, washing machines, bow thrusters etc etc. Not all have everything of course but you could say most new builds are floating homes, maybe on par with Winibago motor homes.
Why is a ditch crawler on here , well my boat has most of the above but it also has a vintage Kelvin J3 engine which came out of Pride of Sheppey which one time worked the Thames and Medway for Websters of Gravesend (the 50's and 60's) then was "found and refurbished 10 years ago. The engine dictates that my draft is 2' 06" because of the 22" prop so I struggle with the depth on most canals, I also look on just in vain hope I see someone selling or throwing away anything Kelvin. Try this site it is a canal forum
http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?act=idx
all the best David

 

[chrismckesson]

Just couldn't let this one go by....

You said " i.e no modern boat goes without fridge/freezer, satillite TV, micro wave, full size domestic cookers and ovens or Aga's, full 230Volt mains power from either inverters or built in generator, washing machines, bow thrusters etc etc. Not all have everything of course but you could say most new builds are floating homes, maybe on par with Winibago motor homes."

I see your point, but let it be noted that my Primary Residence (my sailboat) does not have ANY of the features you listed.

We have small LPG cooker. We do not have running water (foot pump only) nor do we have a water heater or calorifier (no engine). We certainly do not have a 'fridge nor a TV.

Although all this summer on the US east coast we WISHED we had an air conditioner! But that's another story....

Chris

 

[chrismckesson]

I see your point. Actually this sounds exactly like our situation with our caravan: Most of our full-time peers live in 38-foot rigs with dual- or triple slide-out units, and all mod cons as you listed - including satellite internet in-motion.

And such units sell here in the US for $150k - $350k (and up).

We live in a 22 ft unit for which we paid $6500. Oh, actually it was more like $10k by the time we had air conditioning installed, and layed a teak-and-holly floor, and repainted to match our yacht (including name and port of registry on the side.)

Perhaps it's the Scottish last name, or perhaps I'm just a bottom-feeder, but we are very comfortable with little and old.

Oh yes, old: Our caravan in a 1987 model. Our yacht is a 1968.

.............

Do you remember Ian Flemming's character "Caracatus Pott" from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang? He's pretty much my double.

...

Chris McKesson

 

[chrismckesson]

Re: Thanks \"One\"

Thanks especially for the eBay links... Both of those vessels look acceptable to our vision of cruising.

And the idea of an eBay sale is attractive in itself, as it offers a means of cutting down the time spent waiting. Those two examples show pretty good bidding activity, and may form useful pricing benchmarks.

Would either of those vessels be 'acceptable' in the canal community, or will they provoke ridicule? I guess I mean, are these 'real' canal craft, albeit not proper narrowboats?

Chris

 

[mandarin]

[ QUOTE ]
I see your point. Actually this sounds exactly like our situation with our caravan: Most of our full-time peers live in 38-foot rigs with dual- or triple slide-out units, and all mod cons as you listed - including satellite internet in-motion.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi
Trying to shorten my post I was a bit over simple in my description. Canal boats do come in all sorts of fit outs, from very basic DIY to very expense be-spoke built. What I was trying to say was for a sea going boat more skill and design of the boat is needed to make it a safe vessel to be miles from land on and that costs money, for the same sort of internal equipment for just living (leaving out the navigational stuff you need on sea going) a like for like for living and comfort a canal boat will be very favourable in price they are just a bath tub with a pointy end and a roundy end and a single flat plate bottom, cheaper to build easier to fit out, just use caravan or house appliences and units etc not marine grade gear. From what you say later in your post you would get a canal boat but it would be fairly old and basic and lack a lot of what is now taken for granted, but would get you round the system if you are happy living simply. You would have to take care you did not get a clapped out wreak though, ready to sink or the engine blow up etc.
I don't think, no I am certain, you won't get a boat suitable to cruise both narrow canals and safe to do coastal work. You would get one to do coastal and the big rivers Humber Thames Severn etc and the short bits of wide (extra wide actual to take coastal freight craft) canal immediatley off the tidal river. For example the river Trent is tidal to Newark, then has locks I think about 200Ft by 40Ft (would need my map to check) to Nottingham and are used by large coasters moving oil and gravel etc. But at Nottingham the locks go down to 70Ft by 7Ft. You could do the Cally' Scotland from East to West or vice versa Fort William to Inverness via Loch Ness, thats a big canal, but anything suitable for the narrow canals would be folly at sea.
To see the UK from the canals is terrific and you must give it a go always something to do or see, stop when you want and have that pint of beer (at sea what do you see, the sea and er the sea and shall we stop and go for a pint, no it's 8 hours to the next port). I have heard of people arranging swops i.e their place in the US for a boat, maybe you can try that or try asking one of the hire firms the cost of a long term hire. By the way remember the British Waterways carry out repair work normally from October to March so canals get "closed" for periods from days to several weeks so you can held up or even blocked in, you can get a closure list from BW or their web site later in the year.
regards to all David N.B. Mister B [ QUOTE ]

 

[mandarin]

Hi again
The Dawncraft and the Freeman would be go anywere on the canals. One time that type of craft was the norm, the advent of the more robust steel hull has seen them fall very much from favour and most canal fibreglass hull makers are no longer in business, but there are many hundreds still doing sterling service on the system. They are supposedly inshore craft as well but in effect that means going a couple of mile out on a nice day and back before tea.
david N.B. Mister B

 

[byron]

Just a note on the Freeman. You will never lose money when it comes to selling one. Provided it is in the condition you bought it.
They are considered the first classic plastic boat ever and the woodwork inside is of the very best quality.

 

[Bilgediver]

Perhaps it's the Scottish last name, or perhaps I'm just a bottom-feeder, but we are very comfortable with little and old.

Oh yes, old: Our caravan in a 1987 model. Our yacht is a 1968.

.............


/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I should introduce you to Mike at Port Lincoln......He has an enginless Westerly Centaur exrensively modified but as old as the hills which has done at least two if not three circumnavigations /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[TrueBlue]

Re: Your reply to me -

I think Mr B and Byron have answered your question about suitability - particularly the Freeman. If you go that way then I would be inclined to avoid the outboard or petrol engine variety (go for diesel), but we're not yet that far down the line. There are a lot of lesser details to explain after the main decision has been made.

While I still think that a steel tub or low cost Nb would be best for the canals and non tidal bits, something like a Freeman properly powered could - with care - be used for the tidal bits and very inshore use. I mentioned the Freeman in the first place because other threads on these fora have stated that because GRP was a new material in those days, they made the hulls very thick. That makes them suitable for the canals, and yes there are quite a few still around on the canal system.

I think it's time you began to focus your requirements somewhat - at least for discussion here - even if you change your mind later. Here's my much slanted summary:-
<ul type="square">
In a NB or small cruiser you can cruise from Godalming (Surrey) in the South to Rippon (Yorkshire) in the North and London (City of)in the East to Bristol in the West. All interconnecting.
In a small cruiser you could explore the East Coast as well and reconnect to the waterway system.
In a sea going vessel you could circumnavigate the British Isles, go part way up some of the major rivers.
[/list]

After I've put my prejudices aside, I think the second option gives you the best selection?

Before I go this morning here's a link to a NB boat hire company who - as well as having idiosyncratic names for boats - also specialise in lighter weight NB's made by the long defunct company Springer engineering. They may be able to point you in the direction of an inexpensive one, or even might have one of their hire boats that they are about to retire.

Chas Hardern

 

[pheran]

How about this one. 6' 10" beam, four berth, under 10K AND its a diesel (and a fairly new one at that) Could be worth a look. Can't see this one losing much money in a 12-month.

 

[chrismckesson]

Thanks to all. I sincerely appreciate the comments and advice. I judge, from the rolling on the floor and laughing, that I have managed to paint a fairly accurate picture of myself (would love to meet Mike with the engineless Westerly). On the other hand let it be noted that I am a very good engineer, and a licensed Naval Architect, so I understand the implications of those constraints that you have brought to my attention.

I do indeed need to focus more, I just didn't have any basis data upon which to draw. Now you kind folks have provided me a great start - thanks!

I am about to launch off on a 5000 km caravan trip (we just shipped our yacht from the Atlantic to the Pacific and we are jumping in the Winnebago to meet her) so I will go silent for a while. Just wanted y'all to know that I haven't been driven off and abandoned my idea - I'm just musing!

I'll be back with more questions, I'm sure!

All the best,

Chris McKesson

 

[Bilgediver]

Enjoy the cruise across the hinterland...Mike's enginless Centaur is based at Port Lincoln and easy to recognise as he as extended the rear of the cabin into the cockpit on both sides a la Tempest to provide extra storage. He sounds quite a character though I have never actually met other than on various Westerly sites.


John

 

[Gunfleet]

I don't see why a snapdragon 24 wouldn't do what you want and it's bang on your price - £6000 would get you a good one. I sailed to France on one and motored through the Shallow Brittany canals, no trouble. The mast is in a tabernacle.

 

[TrueBlue]

a bit wide

8ft. 3 inch beam

 

[Gunfleet]

Re: a bit wide

Well he can use all the broad beam canals, which is nearly all of them. The downside is that he can't visit Birmingham, but everything has its downside.


map here