Safety Without Radio

[broadcaster]

Re: Been there, done that thing

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Since there seem to be a few contributors who don't read the full thread, I will add here that I have a Long Range Certificate, two VHF radios, an emergency antenna, a legal SSB, three EPIRBs, a full set of flares, enough lifejackets and thethers for 8 crew, two horseshoe lifebuoys, and a SOLAS liferaft. But I respect the rights of others to go to sea in a bathtub from B&Q if that is their wish /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

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Your just being greedy with all that kit /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Been there, done that thing

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Your just being greedy with all that kit /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]To be honest, the previous owner had done the ARC and a circumnavigation via Panama and the Pacific so he had lots of kit. I've had to learn how to push all the buttons to make use of it all. I forgot to mention the Inmasat mini-M satphone, which is how we would alert Falmouth once out of Sea Area A1 - I have Falmouth's number stored and dialling instructions on the phone so even a 7 year old could make a distress call that way.

 

[Guest]

No insurance ....

How are you going to get a mooring ?? No sailing Club / Marina / Harbour Authority will give you a mooring without 3rd Party cover.

Ok then you buy a Trailer Sailer ..... hope you like sailing nowhere .... as you shouldn't tie up to anywhere under Harbour Masters / Marina / Sailing Club jurisdiction .... don't believe me - ask and ye shall be told !!

As to Insurance Co. req't to carry a VHF ......... never heard that one before ...... but then again like most haven't read all small print !! But find it hard to believe ....

 

[starboard]

Re: Been there, done that thing

Quote....I personally wouldn't sail without VHF - but Eric Hiscock didn't have a problem sailing around the world without a radio and who would question his seamanship?.........
Such also was the case with Eric Taberly....never believed in radio nor lifejackets, made many succesful solo round the world trips, however whilst enroute to Largs with his beautiful "Fyfe" yacht crossing the Bristol Channel with an inexperianced crew he was knocked overboard by the boom....with no radio his crew could not summon help and many valuable hours were lost before the distress was relayed to the CG....the resultant late search was fruitless............but then I guess that was Eric would have wanted..

Paul.

 

[Guest]

Wide audience ....

Mobile phone ..... sorry for the pun - but its correct : One to One ....

VHF .... one to many

Now lets look at how that helps .... taking an incident that again I was involved in .... blimey - I have to pick another activity !!!

Approaching Cowes harbour ..... group of Jet Skis coming out ... a two seat job side swipes my boat when he misjudges his stupid trick turn etc. swamps water all over cockpit, into cabin etc., my wife is nearly over the side .... I call CG and report the Jet Ski and because its on VHF ... it turns out that he did it to other boats and then literally a series of boats report his progress across the solent ...... to Lee on Solent.

I do not know if he was apprehended or not but the point is that all knew to watch out for this lunatic, without me having to get another to relay my message ...... it was plain to all.

Again I ask Das Boot - are you really serious ????

OK on to a point that Mike Martin will wish I did not mention ... !! Fitting of VHF equipment is governed by Ship Radio Station Licence ... required. Obtainable without Operators Licence ... fill in form with Ship details and bobs the proverbial. Use of VHF is governbed by Ship Operators Licence - a different matter altogether. Now if a person uses the VHF for emergency purpose, it is highly unlikely that anyone is going to check whether an Operator Licence is held or not. I cannot remember the actual words - but there is something about use of the apparatus under the guidance of a Licenced operator the exception in Emergency situation ...

Now the interesting thing is that many persons who CREW on boats have a licence ... so now we get interesting situation that you may find yourself 'legal' albeit in a bit of a grey area ....

Anyway - I still think its a prat who doesn't take advantage of free air-time and the advantage in safety issues .... I hate the thing with its Radio Check punters in solent etc. - but will not be without it.

 

[Superflid]

Re: Been there, done that thing

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By the way with mordern phones you can send the CG a picture of your injury try do that with a VHF

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Only if the CG has a compatible phone.........

 

[Guest]

I think that this is a wind up ...

Das Boot is after the thread record ..... /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[PeterStone]

Re: Been there, done that thing

Interesting about Taberley - I knew he was lost overboard but didn't know about the aversion to VHF or lifejackets. I share Mirelle's hatred of the incessant chatter of the VHF but I just keep mine turned way down or off if it's a particularly inane day. I could never chuck it away - I often sail with crew and I feel too responsible for their fate to do without such an obvious safety aid.

For the same reason I carry a liferaft - don't go with all this macho rubbish about drowning like a gentleman - enjoy living too much.

 

[ianwright]

Re: Wide audience ....

If some one who knows his stuff, bought the T-shirt and so forth, decides that a particular bit of kit is not for him then fine, he is equiped to make the choice. Das Boot is not. He clearly "doesn't get it" and should be nailed to a tree until he learns better.
On my boat I have fixed VHF and two hand held sets(not DSC which I don't see a need for) Mobile phone (turned off), Code flags plus extra large N and C, standard flare kit plus Verey pistol and 40 flares, signal mirror and a loud voice, and, because the price went down to £299 , an Epirb!
I have used vhf to help the RNLI help others and to whistle up non-rnli help for me. I would not leave home without it,,,,,,,,

IanW .

 

[PeterStone]

Re: Been there, done that thing

You may be right about Hiscock having VHF later but I think it must have been as late as Wanderer 5. I read an account of his voyage up the Pacific coast of Nth America in Wanderer 4, coast hopping in company with another boat, and I'm sure he referred to his lack of a radio but I don't have the book to hand to check- I must have lent it to some untrustworthy Scuttlebut type

 

[Tekkie]

Consider this.

Accident on board which requires medi vac. You PHONE coastguard all details passed. Next Paraffin Budgie overhead, pilot calling on Ch16 which you havent got!! How do you communicate to know exactly what he requires you to do?? Meanwhile casualty getting worse.

VHF make sense to me.

Brian

 

[brianrunyard]

Re: Been there, done that thing

1. As CG would be using a Land Line, you'd be unable to send him a picture.
2. The Lifeboat can't home in on a Mobile Phone.
3. Considering how often mobile phone conversations end abruptly because someone is moving and they lose the signal, I wouldn't want to trust my or anyone elses life to a mobile phone.
4. Considering that as the skipper you are responsible for the safety of the persons on board, it makes sense to do as the Coast Guard recommend, and fit a VHF.
5. What about the situation, when you're in the vicinity of someone in trouble but they can't ask you for assistance, because you don't have a VHF and they don't know your phone number?
6. A mobile phone is great for calling your wife to say you'll be home in 10 minutes and put the kettle on, but as a serious bit of marine equipment, I don't think so.

 

[broadcaster]

Re: Been there, done that thing

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You may be right about Hiscock having VHF later but I think it must have been as late as Wanderer 5. I read an account of his voyage up the Pacific coast of Nth America in Wanderer 4, coast hopping in company with another boat, and I'm sure he referred to his lack of a radio but I don't have the book to hand to check- I must have lent it to some untrustworthy Scuttlebut type

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Your right it was in one of his last boats. I remember the bit you menton, I think he was in company with some Amrican friends and only had a receiver. They used to send regular messages for Eric to listen too at a specific times.

They are excellent books, I bought the whole lot secondhand. Apparently somebody is writing a biography about his life.

 

[broadcaster]

Re: Been there, done that thing

I have just figured it out, DAS BOOT works for Ofcom or perhaps it is a second identity for our ICOM advisor. So far all the posts are doing a good job of promoting VHF sets. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[boomerangben]

Re: Been there, done that thing

The single most important failure of a mobile phones is the fact that the batteries last until the helicopter / lifeboat are on their way. At this point the battery goes dead.

Walkers tend to use mobile phones to raise the alarm for mountain rescue and has certainly saved many many lives - indeed it is often the only means of raising the alarm. But at sea a radio works so much better - you can talk an aircraft or lifeboat to your location. That is why the HMCG, Cliff rescue teams, Mountain rescue teams, RNLI, Police, Military, Ambulance and ...... all use radios. They are far from perfect, but they are more perfect than a mobile.

Take both. Hope to use neither. Oh and leave the phone switched off in case you really do need it in emergency.

 

[Mirelle]

Better thing to do with phone

Our boat, and I should think most others, has car type 12v plugs in the cabin for laptop, etc. (this is a 67 year old gaff cutter I am speaking of, so if we can do it surely anyone can!) Carry a car charger for your mobile and keep it charged off the boat's batteries.

 

[Mirelle]

OK, I\'ll come clean

As someone who started sailing when VHF was looked on as very exotic, I find the idea that one should not potter from one creek to the next without the VHF on rather hard to get used to. But I have greatly enjoyed being preached at by those who know better!

I am NOT suggesting that anyone should make a passage of any length without a VHF, but it has serious limitations, (0 mast = 0 aerial!) and if you don't feel confident to make a passage without one there is something wrong with you or your boat, which should be put right before making the passage.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Re: Better thing to do with phone

Just consider the respective value of what we are talking about. A secondhand fixed non-DSC VHF will cost you £50 at the VERY most.

There are lots of other things to spend £50 on, but anyone with a moderate sense of the value of VHF, would realise that you get one hell of a lot of safety value for that £50.

 

[Mirelle]

No argument. I am just pointing out that you can charge a phone!

Quite a separate issue. If you leave it switched off it will slowly discharge anyway.

(But, just to be pedantic, VHF is not quite that cheap - besides the cost of the VHF set there is its aerial and its licence fee)

 

[webcraft]

Re: OK, I\'ll come clean

0 mast = 0 aerial

- Which is why the first two pieces of safety kit we bought for Fairwinds before our first longish cruise were cable cutters and an emergency VHF aerial. If you lose your rig that is exactly when you might fancy calling someone up on the VHF, so having no aerial is bad planning!

I cannot understand you removing the VHF when you could just have switched it off. I am aware of the requirement to keep a listening watch, but I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted and indeed I don't see any way they could be. ALso, I am sure that even Mike Martin would prefer a functioning but switched off VHF on board to no VHF, listening watch requirement or not.

I don't quite understand the listening watch requirement anyway . . . many smaller boats only have a handheld - are they supposed to let the battery run flat and hope they don't need it while it is being recharged?

- Nick