Safety Without Radio

[Mirelle]

Aha!

"Just because you've got a VHF doesn't mean you have to have it on all the time, but it can be very useful. "

That is the whole point at issue. I got tired of being told that, since I had it on board, I "had" to have it on and keep a "listening watch", which is indeed the formal situation. It's "voluntary fit" kit, so I voluntarily "unfitted" it.

 

[Das_Boot]

Re: Been there, done that thing

Have you ever tried phoning from an aeroplane.
I am saying a mobile is a more reliable means of getting attention when it is needed. Modern technology satelite etc has superceded the VHF and is more reliable and you have more chance of being rescued VHF is good for chatting

In a rescue situation you are the one initiating the rescue everything else is a reaction to that. It is up to you to keep lines of comunication open.
When you call on your mobile it does not die forever after if you think there is something more you need to communicate make another call or stay on the line it is exactly the same as talking on a VHF you dont have to put the phone down.

Why would the coasgaurd need to call you?

Imagine if everytime the emergency services were called on land you had to use a VHF. They stay on the line for hours talking people through horrendous situations.

 

[Guest]

Seems the point of a VHF has been lost here ...

VHf - A marvelous piece of kit that will assist RNLI and other services to rescue you in emergency - that is the best bit. Second it is a bit of kit that is far cheaper and better at the job of communication to Marinas / Ships / Ports / Harbour Masters etc. etc than anything else. Thirdly it does not need to have different numbers programmed in or remembered for the area you are in - which a GSM or Satphone would need.

I cannot honestly believe a person would pay out for Satphone and all its costs etc. instead a simple VHF at far less cost !!!

Please tell me this is a joke ?

For me - I rarely use the VHF ... being similar to Mirabelle in thought about it, but I still have the fixed one ... + handheld ..... its funny actually because I use the HH more !!

Finally I relate an incident that involved me and I am very thankful for the VHF on that day .....

Bembridge ... deaprting and weather deteriorating rapidly .... trying to race back to Langstone ... only a short hop across Solent. Forestay carried away and furling gear unfurled ... blown onto sandbank near St. Helens Fort. I did not call on 16 - I was fully in my rights to - but called on CG working channel and advised them what happened ...... engine swamped, sails and mast damaged ... anchor out but weather and situation getting worse etc. They were marvelous - within minutes the lifeboat was out .... rocket line fired over as they couldn't approach in the shallow water ..... etc. Spent night back in Bembridge with good meal at Row Barge Inn ....
(RNLI guys actually commented that it is not often that they get to fir the rocket app. and do the tow bit - so they considered all worthwhile)

Now the point is without VHF - I think it would have been a different story.

Maybe think again ???? Das Boot ???? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[broadcaster]

Re: Been there, done that thing

[ QUOTE ]
Dont you think that the issue is how to communicate your distress.
Why did you not just phone the CG and tell them Im not in trouble. The issue is not the communication but the means of communication. I believe that the mobile phone is more reliable in less serious situations and in serious situations the EPIRB is more reliable. It sends out a position fix without help it sends out an exact position without human error you dont have to hold it there is no mistake you can get on with other things that might help to save your life. If you just want a chat use the phone.

[/ QUOTE ]

At last you get to the real issue, it is how you communicate. No the mobile was not the right thing to use. Firstly because the CG want you to use the VHF as the preferred method of comms and they have reasons for this. Secondly if other people were listening and thinking about raising the alarm they may hear the call and then not bother to call the CG. Alternatively another boat might have heard and offers a tow. Instantly I, the CG and yacht offering a tow all know what is happening.

The phone numbers vary depending on where you are, so you may actually call the wrong CG station. The person answering the call may not be the one dealing with the VHF calls from the other boats in the area reporting a problem. This person would then have to relay this to the correct person, causing a delay.

This is why the mobile is really limited in an emergency.

For example the CG is handling a rescue, the lifeboat is launched together with the helicopter. The lifeboat gets nearby and needs to talk to the casualty to make arrangements (possible heading change whatever). The lifeboat can't use the VHF, so he asks the CG for the mobile number which he has to write down because numbers are harder to memorise then names. He talks to the casualty on a mobile and then the CG doesn't know whats going on. The helicopter turns up to lend assistance, so now the lifeboat is on the phone to casualty, a second person on the lifeboat is having to relay messages to the CG and helicopter on their VHF to update them and it turns into chaos.

If you think about it, the VHF has a wider audience a faster communication time (no dial up delay) and you can't mix up numbers.

As regards EPIRB's, they are great but it is one way communication. How do you know what the helicopter wants to do when it arrives. They may need you to help them and they won't be able to communicate with you to give instructions. This could put them and you at risk. It is always good to have several communication options.

Don't get me wrong I am not an expert, but I have read what others have written on the subject and it seems to make sense.

 

[broadcaster]

Re: Aha!

[ QUOTE ]
"Just because you've got a VHF doesn't mean you have to have it on all the time, but it can be very useful. "

That is the whole point at issue. I got tired of being told that, since I had it on board, I "had" to have it on and keep a "listening watch", which is indeed the formal situation. It's "voluntary fit" kit, so I voluntarily "unfitted" it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your mad to remove it given that it could be a benefit.

I give up.

 

[Das_Boot]

Re: Been there, done that thing

I agree It would be silly not to carry one as a matter of principal. They are cheap it is not a money issue. One should have all ones options open. Having said that though when I am in trouble the first thing I will reach for is my mobile. Maybe my issue with radios does not stem from my years in the signal corp but from the difficulty I allways had in making coms, and once made, the reason for making them in the first place evaded me.
Radios are unreliable and there isnt always someone listening. I still believe you can get by without one.
By the way with mordern phones you can send the CG a picture of your injury try do that with a VHF

 

[broadcaster]

Re: Been there, done that thing

[ QUOTE ]
Have you ever tried phoning from an aeroplane.
I am saying a mobile is a more reliable means of getting attention when it is needed. Modern technology satelite etc has superceded the VHF and is more reliable and you have more chance of being rescued VHF is good for chatting

In a rescue situation you are the one initiating the rescue everything else is a reaction to that. It is up to you to keep lines of comunication open.
When you call on your mobile it does not die forever after if you think there is something more you need to communicate make another call or stay on the line it is exactly the same as talking on a VHF you dont have to put the phone down.

Why would the coasgaurd need to call you?

Imagine if everytime the emergency services were called on land you had to use a VHF. They stay on the line for hours talking people through horrendous situations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you being serious. A mobile is not the most reliable method of communication. The VHF is much better, when mobile signals degrade you get disconnected. The VHF will crackle and may fade in and out, but you don't get cut off. Phones can also be engaged. You can always break in when there are pauses during VHF tranmission.

You think you are capable of keeping the communication channels open. Do you have the mobile number for the lifeboat, helicopter and any other boat coming to your aid. Some may not even have a mobile. You may need to give information to all of them, that could mean 4-5 phone calls rather than a single radio call. It just does not compare.

The coastguard/lifeboat/helicopter would need to call you for updates on the situation and so that they can decide if more resources are required. They would also give you updates on what is happening.

Strangely the emergency services use radios themselves on land, so it might give an indication of how useful they are. It is also slightly different in that most people on land don't have VHF's.

Honestly you are having a joke with me aren't you.

 

[Das_Boot]

Re: Been there, done that thing

They all carry mobiles better technology anyway a mobile is a radio just a better more reliable one. I can do conference calls send pictures etc. on mine. Like I said on a previous post ask the people in the Irish sea adrift for a week how they got rescued and what use their VHF was.
I am off home to do some work
Cheers
by the way I dont work for vodafone.

 

[jimi]

Re: Aha!

In congested areas such as the SOlent I switch it off, cos its a PIA with incessant "noise" of some sort or the other. In quieter or more remote areas I keep it on JIC someone needs assistance.

 

[Mirelle]

Yes, it is, and it is rebroadcast by the CG on vhf. You hear it on 198 first.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Aha!

[ QUOTE ]
It's "voluntary fit" kit, so I voluntarily "unfitted" it.

[/ QUOTE ] /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[starboard]

Re: Been there, done that thing

......Sorry, but I cringe whenever I hear the "Listen to the professionals, they know better than you do" argument. Most amateurs in any discipline take their hobbies very seriously and are often far better at the subject than 80% of those who do it for a living. ........

I am sure they do but I think you may also find the members of an RNLI crew also do....after messing around in boats for 20 years I then spent the next 15 years with the RNLI as an Arun Class lifeboat Coxswain....very frustrating at times assisting those that thought they knew better...... Cliff earlier made a very good point, suddenly find yourself on a nasty lee shore and pick up a pot around your prop and rudder, now cannot steer and no engine, sails no use as no steering, rocks 20mtr away and drifting fast, large yacht close by, call on CH16 and within minutes the yacht has a line on you....no problem

I remember a few years ago, yacht lost in thick fog advised CG he thought he was west of Ayr, Lifeboat launched and on leaving Troon make radio contact and LB df equipment shows yacht actually off Irvine in the totally opposite direction from Ayr. If this guy had only had mobile phone to CG we could have spent hours searching fo him!!!!

I still say for the cost of the radio the best piece of safety equipment you can fit.

Good luck

Paul.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Been there, done that thing

[ QUOTE ]
By the way with mordern phones you can send the CG a picture of your injury try do that with a VHF

[/ QUOTE ]At the risk of widening this debate into the field of yet more training /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, had you been on a first aid course you wouldn't be suggesting that a photo of an injury would often be of much use to anyone. You are taught on a first aid course how to describe the casualty's condition for reporting to the emergency services.

 

[WayneS]

I see your point but I think we all have a duty to look after others as well.

A radio may help you come to the assistance of another boatie who has got themselves into trouble. Hence the need for us all to monitor Ch16 when possible.

W

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Been there, done that thing

You've missed the spirit of what I was saying....but don't worry, it isn't important /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Alastairdent]

Re: Been there, done that thing

Compass are selling a basic handheld vhf for 50 quid. Shall we all club together and re-equipe this sap with a vhf?

Consensus seems to be that only a fool would discard one, given their usefulness.

Sorry, maybe I should be more tactful.

Consensus, (which includes RNLI personnel), is that a VHF is extremely useful in emergencies. It is therefore a good idea to have at least a basic handheld.

 

[PeterStone]

Re: Been there, done that thing

<I remember a few years ago, yacht lost in thick fog advised CG he thought he was west of Ayr, Lifeboat launched and on leaving Troon make radio contact and LB df equipment shows yacht actually off Irvine in the totally opposite direction from Ayr.>

Reminds me of when I was anchored in Dover outer harbour a few years back, sitting out some thick weather. I saw a yacht leaving in the murk. The visibility deteriorated further and a few hours later I heard a plaintive voice over the VHF belonging to the skipper of the departing yacht. He was totally lost in Dover Straits. The Coastguard homed in on him and gave him his position. A few hours later he returned, tail between his legs - but safe. A demonstartion of the value of VHF - to me at least.

I personally wouldn't sail without VHF - but Eric Hiscock didn't have a problem sailing around the world without a radio and who would question his seamanship?

 

[Anonymous]

Re: Been there, done that thing

[ QUOTE ]
Consensus seems to be that only a fool would discard one, given their usefulness.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm sure we could find plenty of things we could make others do because we know it would be in their best interests. But frankly I prefer to live in a land where people are permitted to make their own decisions unless there is a overwhelmingly compelling reason to force them to comply. Thankfully there is no legal requirement for yachts to be equipped with VHF or, if fitted, for them to be used. The same used to be true for light aircraft when I was last flying, but I imagine the rules have changed.

Since there seem to be a few contributors who don't read the full thread, I will add here that I have a Long Range Certificate, two VHF radios, an emergency antenna, a legal SSB, three EPIRBs, a full set of flares, enough lifejackets and thethers for 8 crew, two horseshoe lifebuoys, and a SOLAS liferaft. But I respect the rights of others to go to sea in a bathtub from B&Q if that is their wish /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[broadcaster]

Re: Been there, done that thing

[ QUOTE ]
<but Eric Hiscock didn't have a problem sailing around the world without a radio and who would question his seamanship?

[/ QUOTE ]

Even he bought one later on when they became more popular. I sure I saw a photo of one on one of his later boats. Not on Wanderer III though.

 

[broadcaster]

Re: Been there, done that thing

[ QUOTE ]
They all carry mobiles better technology anyway a mobile is a radio just a better more reliable one.

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't, because it relies on a network coverage of a particular company, it goes via a lot of third party equipment and isn't point to point, it requires a subscription, you need to a specific number of another unit to call it, you have to wait for a connection.

I am not saying it isn't useful and you should carry them but it's not better for all the above reasons.

Do you have the number of all the individual emergency service vessels, helicopters etc because a mobile phone is no good without them.

Conference calls wouldn't work as a party could drop out and then you would have to dial all over again. It simply DOES NOT do the same thing.

I really do think you are having a joke at our expense.