Safety Without Radio

[gandy]

Re: OK, I surrender. Will come quietly.

[ QUOTE ]
Last year a yacht and crew set sail from Ireland. After getting into difficulty while in the Irish sea after using VHF and flares they eventualy set light to the boat all to no avail. They drifted I think for 7 or 8 days (in liferaft) eventualy they managed to summon help HOW mobile phone. If they had an EPIRB they would have been saved withing 12 hrs.

PLEASE EXPLAIN

[/ QUOTE ]

Weren't they outside VHF range anyway? And they only came into mobile phone range after 7 or 8 days drifting. Sounds like they could have done with a longer range marine radio.

Tony S

 

[ShipsWoofy]

hmmmm

 

[broadcaster]

Re: OK, I surrender. Will come quietly.

[ QUOTE ]
[quoteYou really are an idiot if you set off an EPRIB before trying your VHF (if the situation allows it).

[/ QUOTE ]I totally disagree. When you are in distress - i.e. "In grave and imminent danger and require immediate assistance" you should make distess signals in all appropriate ways. If you are short-handed you might well actuate the EPIRB before making a manual VHF call if you are needed to attend to something else which is even more urgent - e.g. firefighting, stopping bleeding, plugging a hole.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats why I said "if situation allows it". He didn't say grave and imminent danger, just the 1st method of raising assistance. I would never suggest not using the EPIRB in this situation, but not all need to get assistance is for imminent danger and if you choose not to have a VHF you limit your ability to use other methods to get appropriate help.

 

[Das_Boot]

Re: there are always exceptions

You are stating examples where people dont know their location. THAT IS THE FIRST RULE OF BEING AT SEA. For heavens sake if you dont know how to find out where you are DONT GO TO SEA.

As for calling a friend if I have minor problems I will call a friend not on land but one with access to a boat.

I suppose people call for help if they get a headache or cut finger!

Yachting is about self sufficancy anyway that is what I was taught and aspire to.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: hmmmm

Woof! Woof! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[broadcaster]

Re: there are always exceptions

[ QUOTE ]
You are stating examples where people dont know their location. THAT IS THE FIRST RULE OF BEING AT SEA. For heavens sake if you dont know how to find out where you are DONT GO TO SEA.

As for calling a friend if I have minor problems I will call a friend not on land but one with access to a boat.

I suppose people call for help if they get a headache or cut finger!

Yachting is about self sufficancy anyway that is what I was taught and aspire to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes in an emergency it is not always possible to know exactly where you are and if you think that you will always be in a position to know exactly where you are then you are naive. Some of the best skippers in the world have managed to get into trouble and not know their position. In low visibility it is difficult to spot somebody so if you are off by even a small amount you could be missed. If you have to abandon the boat into a raft you could drift a long way in bad weather and not know where you are or have the ability to find out. So I would suggest that if you can't identify the possibility of getting lost, DON'T GO TO SEA.

So you do have friends all up and down the coast who can reach you in a short period of time. That is amazing, perhaps you could start your own rescue service.

If it is about self sufficiency why do you have a mobile and EPRIB and has nothing to do with the argument over VHF's.

Why not answer the questions in my other post.

 

[Guest]

Nice one Das Boot ....

The reference to my opinion - which is MY opinion is based on the original concept and idea of the EPIRB.
I spent a while at sea with Merchant Navy and we had EPIRB's mounted on bridge wings etc. long before the advenmt of the minature versions that abound today. Yachts only had them if they went Blue Water etc. Now they are common place and my opinion is that most actually do not venture far enough to warrant such a piece of equipment - as VHF - even your bl...y mobile will be able to contact someone ... and be able to give better indication of situation.

Agreed an EPIRB is a good piece of kit and would save your life wherever you are .... but a bit of sensible reasoning is expected in whether it is a necessary fitment or not.

With your reasoning it appears that you would set off an EPIRB in Solent ..... if you considered imminent danger ? Did you know that it was only recently that MAYDAY actaully applied to LIFE .... previously PERSON was not part of MAYDAY list ...... but of course now you choose to take it even further and call out a Nimrod over the Solent ... OK we know that is unlikely as the position given would indicate closeness to shore etc.

Sorry but this thread is wearing me down and as said before appears to be a wind up and trawl .....

 

[Das_Boot]

Re: hmmmm

Refering back to the crew adrift in the Irish sea and my post.
I said if they had an EPIRB they would have been rescued within 12 hrs weather permiting. But no all they had was a VHF. No good in that siuation to man or beast.
I think Abandoning ship is extreme enough to activate your EPIRB.

 

[tome]

Re: there are always exceptions

Das_Boot

I've been following this thread with growing wonder at your stubborn refusal to accept the sound advice of coastguards and rescue services. On a channel crossing, you will lose mobile phone contact as little as 10 miles offshore but will have solid VHF contact with one side or other throughout the crossing. There are also plenty of other boats about with VHF. Your mobile will be quite useless to you until you again close the coast.

Your suggestion of phoning a friend if you get into difficulties is just laughable. It tells me that you are way out of your depth in this debate.

 

[Das_Boot]

Re: hmmmm

Oh and by the way EPIRB fulfills the same function as DCS if the DCS is linked to a GPS the only difference is the range. Now I dont hear anyone saying that if the circumstance warrant it not to hit the emergency button on the DCS.
As I say luddite versus modern dont you just hate those pesky mobile phones.
One thing you are right about it is wearing thin. Unfortunatly as I started it I feel obligated to answer.

 

[broadcaster]

Re: hmmmm

[ QUOTE ]
Refering back to the crew adrift in the Irish sea and my post.
I said if they had an EPIRB they would have been rescued within 12 hrs weather permiting. But no all they had was a VHF. No good in that siuation to man or beast.
I think Abandoning ship is extreme enough to activate your EPIRB.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is my last post (no pun intended) as your right it must be a wind up.

Your point from your post about the crew adrift in the Irish sea was that the mobile saved them and therefore was proof that it was better than a VHF. Nobody claimed an EPIRB wouldn't have been better or shouldn't have been activated.

I will leave you with one last story which happened to my brother. His boat was moored in Portsmouth harbour and two guys broke into a number of boats to steal equipment. Unfortunately as they were on drugs, one of them fell in. The other one pulled the pin on a stolen EPIRB which sent a out a signal. This alerted all the emergency services, the harbour police, RNLI, local rescue, military vessels, helicopter. Sadly the guy died. The point I am trying to make is that in a normal situation it would be great to have as many forms of comms as possible including a VHF as EPIRBS do get a full response from the emergency services. I don't mean don't have an EPIRB, but if you do you really ought to have a VHF as well.

And an EPIRB is different from a DSC as they can't call you back on an EPIRB (it doesn't have a speaker as far as I know) so that can't get the additional info on the right assistance to send. So you could waste a lot of resources. Having said that when DSC is out of range ans you get no response, the EPIRB is fantastic. As for being a luddite, a lack of understanding of technology can be worse. You obviously don't understand the difference between the technologies.

It's been a fun debate and I have learned a few things from the other posts so thanks.

Just off to top up my mobile /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Das_Boot]

Re: hmmmm

You just dont get it why would I want to make contact crossing the channel unless I was in dire trouble.
Who would I want to contact If I wanted all that contact I would have stayed in the pub.
If I was in extreme trouble I would activate my EPIRB you can call on your VHF guess who gets saved First!!!!!

 

[Guest]

DSC vs EPIRB ...

DSC is via short range VHF .... local call out literally .......

EPIRB is via satelite and a different kettle of proverbial fish !!

Luddites - my a...e ......

I have mobile phone with me 24/7, data access, Ir and cable link to Notebook PC, GPS, Autohelm etc. etc. I do not class myself as a Dinosaur in this field .....

As many know on this forum - I admin / Moderate a few web groups .... so I wouldn't class myself as not willing to appreciate modern ways !! But maybe Das Boot doesn't follow my usual twitterings on the forums etc.

I would say after reading Das Boot posts .... a) not a young person as he says enlisted into signals ?, b) he's grabbed modern technology and gone overboard on one item that he can operate without having to think too much ... c) wants comment and opinions - but fails to understand them - even when evidence is presented to support, d) quotes situations that frankly can be taken in various ways and used for and against his stand.

Blimey - gimme a beer .... better still a Vodka .... I need a lifter !!!

 

[tome]

Re: hmmmm

Well, perhaps this illustrates that you are indeed out of your depth. My DSC alert with position would be acknowledged within seconds, whereas your EPIRB alert could take an hour to resolve its position. No contest is there?

Sounds like the pub might be the best place for you /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Anonymous]

Re: hmmmm

[ QUOTE ]
whereas your EPIRB alert could take an hour to resolve its position. No contest is there?

[/ QUOTE ]Two of my EPIRBS (one PLB and one main) have integral GPSs and are claimed to lock on within 45 seconds - usually much faster. Having internal batteries, they are far less likely to have become a victim of whatever calamity has caused the distress (dis-masting, fire, water, etc.) so probably, in real life, in the sort of emergency that is most likely to be immediately life-threatening, the EPIRB would be the best choice of the two, if one had to choose.

 

[Mike_Martin]

Re: hmmmm

Despite the fact that this thread is getting a little oversized for me to answer, this particular point needs some professional input. Here is one of the reports from the Inis Mil Rescue please note http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/3659006.stm PLEASE take the time to read all of Falmouth CG's comments.

Their VHF was "fixed" and if the account is correct it didn't work properly anyway. Personally if I owned 60 footer and planned to make a passage of this type, I would have a grab-bag for the liferaft and that would have a hand-held and at least a 121.5MHz PLB.

Mike

 

[Das_Boot]

Re: hmmmm

I know DCS works via VHF and Epirb via satelite however both of them broadcast your position (if the dcs is linked to GPS). Whereas the old VHF relied on the person making the call to give their position.
As to thinking too much if you had read my previous post. Once your epirb or for that matter DCS has been activated you can get on with other things that might add to saving your life you dont need to think about it anymore.
Anyway I am off home to do some work and maybe silent sailing.
Engine off VHF off happy days.

 

[tome]

Re: hmmmm

There was a lengthy thread some time back about EPIRB response times with and without GPS, you may want to dig it out and have a read.

What is indisputable is that the GPS receiver in the EPIRB will have to do a full cold-start from an unknown position when activated. If you believe that this would happen within 45 seconds then you are indeed an optimist. Having said that, such optimism will probably see you through the emergency!

Like you, I carry an EPIRB as well as VHF.

 

[Guest]

QED .... even Falmouth CG agree !!

Good night all ......

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous]

EPIRB - time for GPS to lock on

I've checked the McMurdo website and they are not very forthcoming. On the Fast find Plus PLB data sheet they have a weird action matrix that is not clear but it seems that they think the GPS data will be transmitted within 2 mins. When I took my EPIRBs over to McMurdos for a software upgrade in December, I'm fairly sure that the chap said around 45S. Could be that this is normal but not guaranteed? Don't know but apparently there had been an issue that led to the 'recall' and all is now OK. We hope /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif