Safety Without Radio

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
I am trying to envisage the scenario in which I might need to use a VHF.
I just cant see it.

[/ QUOTE ]I seldom use the radio to speak to the CG - sometimes, but seldom - and then it is usually to ask them to repeat a weather forecast I've missed or misheard. A couple of times I've responded to the CG's request for assistance so doing 'my bit', I suppose. But the single biggest use of the VHF RT is approaching marinas - you can check to see which ones have space and often get a berth allocated on approach - and RT is very useful in a place like Chichester Marina which is locked-in.

I would not be without a simple VHF; not DSC, just a humble VHF (and a handheld is very useful if you don't have a mic in the cockpit). The restricted courses are quite fun and very easy - and cost around £50, ISTR. I think you get £50 value out of the course because there are loads of things you probably didn't know. Anyway, it's the cost of a modest dinner for two and lasts your lifetime.

 

[Das_Boot]

This is exactly my point about mordern technology just phone the marina. Having said that the one reason I have overlooked is the cost VHF is free wheras you have to pay for a mobile call I suppose it is something to take into consideration.

 

[Das_Boot]

I get your point mike however we had boats stationed arround the tricoler (car carrier sunk in the channel) on gaurd duty. One of our masters had to fire flares at the bridge of a vessel to get attention. Frech helicopter flying over the wreck videod empty bridge I think three ships hit the thing and it was one of the most gaurded and marked areas in the world. I bet if they had the ships mobile number they might have avoided a collision. Ask any master who has done guard and chase work in the north sea for an opinion on attracting the attention of ships while at sea.

 

[JonA]

They still broadcast the shipping forecast on BBC radio 4 for which you only need a cheap transistor radio.
Jonathan

 

[oldharry]

Re: Yes. What sort of sailing?

[ QUOTE ]
For ordinary coastal sailing I don't carry a radio, or a radar, or an EPIRB, or a hand held, and I appear to have survived for the past thirty years.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree Mireille, but for one thing: I carried a radio for many years and never used it. So when it packed up I did not replace it. Somebody I knew was out in poor vis, his boat sprang a leak so he sent out a Mayday but the radio failed before he completed his message so they did not know where to look.

I have to live with the fact that I was not far away at the time, but without radio knew nothing, so did nothing....

They did not find him in time.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Is that the one on 198 kHz (long wave)? If so what is the coverage like?

{Edit: all sorted, found reference that is long wave and coverage of UK waters, thanks}.

John

 

[tome]

Re: Yes. What sort of sailing?

You make the point I was going to, and far better than I could have done. Fitting a radio means that you could perhaps provide assistance to others in difficulties.

I hate the chatter of VHF, and even more the DSC alarms. But we owe each other a duty of care and assistance at sea, and if we all chose to sail without VHF it would be rather selfish and sad.

 

[broadcaster]

I think you forget that mobile phones have quite big holes in their reception and normally you cannot switch networks, so if you are with 3 and there is no reception in that area you are stuck. Also if you managed to call for assistance and they can't call you back because you are suddenly out of range then it creates all sorts of problems. The coastguard does NOT recommend you use a mobile as your prime contact for emergency calls, they always recommend VHF and this is purely from experience.

Many people say they have been safe sailing round the coast for many years, but that doesn't mean it might not happen next week or in 10 years. If it does, then you will probably be wanting help and it is YOUR responsibility to ensure that the emergency services can provide it in the safest and quickest manner. If they end up wasting time searching for you because you didn't carry a simple VHF, then you could potentially take them away from other urgent calls for assistance.

I knew one of the rescue helicopter pilots and they always use the VHF to communicate with the casualty because it is the best method. One of the key things with VHF is that if more than one person is helping in an emergency then everybody can listen to what is going on, this doesn't work with a mobile.

So those of you who think the mobile is a good alternative to the VHF, I would seriously think about getting a VHF, even if it is hand held.

 

[alex_rogers]

Shipping forecast on radio 4!

 

[Das_Boot]

Wouldnt you if things are that bad that you need to be rescued set off your EPIRB if not what is the point of them.
I get the point however of going to others assistance allthough I would probably be more of a hinderance. I am just trying to think of how I could help...Two boats going up and down and sideways me trying to get on board the other boat... the only thing I might be able to do is throw a line... if the other boat is sinking I could pick people out of the water I suppose. but would rather deploy my life raft for them... By this time the the rescue services should be on the scene.
I dont know the only rescues at sea that I have heard of (yacht to yacht) have been in racing circumstance in the southern ocean etc. and they have comunicated by sat phone.

 

[alex_rogers]

Shipping forecast on Radio 4.

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

I think it must be possible to sail without radio because I did it for years, without any electronics at all in fact.

There seems to be some confusion in this thread between "safety", which is all about doing things in such a way that you don't get into trouble, and things like radio which will help somebody else get you out of trouble when your safety regime has failed.

 

[Mike_Martin]

A good point in need of some further definition.

Unlike SOLAS and most commercial vessels, pleasure boats have the definition "Voluntary Fit" when it comes to safety equipment. This means that they are not required by Law to carry this equipment, however, when a pleasure boat owner "chooses" to fit radio they are THEN required to follow the rules of use which includes the ship radio licence and operators certificate.

If you don't like or wish to follow the rules, the simple answer seems to be don't fit it in the first place.

Mike

 

[ditchcrawler]

Two points
The personal non licence radios are I would guess only any use if you have a pre agreed channel to talk to each other.Thats how mine work.
I believe that we all have a duty to help & look after each other when sailing.To my mind anyone who can afford radar,epirb,mobile phones etc & does not have VHF is failing in this simple duty,but what do I know?

 

[Das_Boot]

I was watching the sea rescue on the tv and am amazed at some of the things they will fly a helicopter to deal with.
I have the same philosophy as slowly but surely. That is not to say that I will never need help. However in life threatening situations I would rather trust my EPIRB.

 

[Mike_Martin]

Just another point that needs making here.

Are you aware that an EPIRB is a last-ditch device?

It is what you should be firing off when she is slipping beneath the waves UNLESS you are mid-Atlantic and in need of serious assistance. What are you going to do say 15 miles off and drifting when all you actually need is to be taken under tow. Would you feel comfortable that the RNLI is launching and risking their lives to rush to your non DISTRESS situation. If memory serves someone did this last Summer.

The whole point of the comms system is that you talk about your problem rather than firing off a beacon that is in effect saying that you are dead or dying! I would personally see you using your mobile phone!

Mike.

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
However in life threatening situations I would rather trust my EPIRB.

[/ QUOTE ]
And without the VHF you will not hear the helicopter pilot telling you to stear a straight course of x degrees at 5 knots ...

You have all the equipment so it is mearly a matter of doing the course.

 

[cliff]

[ QUOTE ]
I am trying to envisage the scenario in which I might need to use a VHF.
I just cant see it.

[/ QUOTE ]Being blown onto a lee shore with engine failure. Raggie close by, quick call on radio (VHF ch16) leads to raggie being able to render assistance in form of a tow. A mobile phone is not much use in such a case - by the time even the CG respond you could be on the rocks. no VHF => no rescue (in time).

Not too hard a scenario to envisage - actually occurred last season!
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[broadcaster]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Not too hard a scenario to envisage - actually occurred last season!
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[/ QUOTE ]

Happened to me prior to Christmas, the oil pipes fractured on our 1GM10. There was no wind to sail, but we managed to contact a yacht who gave us a tow.

As far as EPIRBS are concerned, they are meant to be used when all other methods of comms don't because they can't provide additional information.

Compared to how much everything else costs on a boat a VHF is a bit of a bargain.

 

[Das_Boot]

I think life threatening is pretty last ditch. If I am near enough to the coast for it to be a problem (lee shore) I will more than likely be able to get signal on my mobile. If not I will sit it out as I have done many times. If it is a survival situation I will activate the EPIRB.
If you can stear the boat and make way why call for help. If it is an injured crew member whose life is in danger I think that once again falls into the category of life threatening. Activate the EPIRB if you are out of signal range on your mobile.
Having said all that the point about helping others is valid and I probably will carry a VHF. However I still honestly believe it should not be relied upon (vhf) and should be a last resort rather than the first.