25931
Well-Known Member
I need to re-register. In Olhão marina one can see quite a number o Belgian and Polish flags. Advice would be appreciated.
Registration.
- Thread starter 25931
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Tranona
Well-Known Member
Why do you need to re register?
DownWest
Well-Known Member
SSR, tightening up on non residents?
I was hoping to use it, but can't. Mine will be French, but being small, doesn't have the problems of the average cruising yacht .
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
Belgium you can forget their also tighten up , polish is getting very popular no matter what you read here,
But it does look like the cost of doing so is around €400 as I understand you need an agent to do it for you .
Lots of British boats who are having problems getting SSR are going to polish flag , as I understand it a one off payment life time registration or so I am told .
Good luck I just registered on the SSR and its now a right carry on .
nortada
Well-Known Member
No change there, understandably, the Register of Shipping and Seamen (RSS), who administer the SSR, always insisted only those resident in the UK, with a UK postal address can be on the SSR. Clearly non-residents cannot meet this criteria.
From recent experience, provided you provide a reasonable, mailing address, possibly the same you use for banking and confirm you are on an electoral roll, you should have no problem. I have heard no cases of the RSS completing back checks..
This is just another reason to keep ties at home when cruising oversea.
billskip
Well-Known Member
I was reading a couple of "legal advice help" reports over the last few days(Spain), one said if you pay the 12% matriculation tax you can keep your foreign (eg. UK ssr) flag registration so can keep a boat permanently in Europe.
That said, whilst saying the same in another report it had additional information saying you have to re register you boat to the Spanish flag if you are a resident.
I dont know if this applies to all EU or just Spain, or even if the report is correct.
If the report is correct and your boat is in Spain (EU? )for more than 18 months and you become a resident, your boat has to be registered with a Spanish flag and you as the skipper will then have to get the Spanish license, so all this retention of keeping ties to UK will not be beneficial as I see the future.
That said, whilst saying the same in another report it had additional information saying you have to re register you boat to the Spanish flag if you are a resident.
I dont know if this applies to all EU or just Spain, or even if the report is correct.
If the report is correct and your boat is in Spain (EU? )for more than 18 months and you become a resident, your boat has to be registered with a Spanish flag and you as the skipper will then have to get the Spanish license, so all this retention of keeping ties to UK will not be beneficial as I see the future.
WindyWindyWindy
Well-Known Member
Edit: Sorry, just noticed the OP is in Portugal, so that was irrelevant.
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Tranona
Well-Known Member
The matriculation tax is Spain only on new resident assets. Nothing to do with keeping a boat in the EU and no need to change registration. Status of boat in the EU is a function of its VAT status. If it is UK VAT paid then you have to import into the EU when you become resident, but that is independent of matriculation although of course it might happen at the same time.
billskip
Well-Known Member
) Owners or users of recreational yachts over 8 metres, resident or established in Spain, who use the yacht in Spanish waters must pay registration tax.
b) If a recreational yacht registered under a foreign flag is used in Spanish waters by a non-resident or non-established, private individual or company, Spanish registration is not required.
c) Legally, there are no restrictions on the time a yacht registered in an EU country is allowed to remain in Spanish waters. The factor which determines the obligation to register in Spain is the length of time the user remains in Spain, 183 days per year, not the yacht
d) Living aboard a yacht moored in a Spanish port for more than 183 days per year can be considered to be resident in Spain and obliged to pay the tax as a consequence.
billskip
Well-Known Member
Act 39/ 2010, of 22nd December, of State Budget, has introduced a significant amendment to the First Additional Provision of the Law 38/1992 of 28 December, of Special Tax, rule setting the Special Tax on Certain Means of Transport (IEDMT), also known as Spanish Matriculation Tax on yachts.
This tax, applies to vessels over 8 meters in lenght to be registered in Spain, is 12% of the value of the boat. Under the first additional provision, the registration in Spain is compulsory when the boat is destined to be used by a natural or legal person residing or established in Spain.
With the new wording, the obligation of paying the tax still continues when the yachts are to be used by residents and established, but registering the yacht in Spain is not required.
That means that it is compulsory to pay the tax, but not necessarily to change the flag to the Spanish one.
This tax, applies to vessels over 8 meters in lenght to be registered in Spain, is 12% of the value of the boat. Under the first additional provision, the registration in Spain is compulsory when the boat is destined to be used by a natural or legal person residing or established in Spain.
With the new wording, the obligation of paying the tax still continues when the yachts are to be used by residents and established, but registering the yacht in Spain is not required.
That means that it is compulsory to pay the tax, but not necessarily to change the flag to the Spanish one.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
So, as I said it is nothing to do with the freedom of circulation of the boat (or otherwise) throughout the EU which is determined solely by its VAT status. Registration and local tax requirements are irrelevant.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
There's a contradiction in this post. paragraph 2 states - the registration in Spain is compulsory when the boat is destined to be used by a natural or legal person residing or established in Spain.
Whereas para 3 & 4 say - registering the yacht in Spain is not required.
Which is correct?
billskip
Well-Known Member
Exactly, if you read my earlier posts I said that one finding is different to another.
These are cut and posted from Spanish marine legal people.
I do know the op is referring to Portugal, but it would not surprise me if their info was just as confusing.
Also the date is 2011?
Other reports seem to say it is compulsory if a Spanish resident owns a yacht it has to be Spanish flag....
Graham376
Well-Known Member
No confusing info to worry about in Portugal, we're not required to matriculate boats or pay import taxes here, just pay light dues and circulation tax but most avoid paying the latter
greeny
Well-Known Member
Long may it continue.No confusing info to worry about in Portugal, we're not required to matriculate boats or pay import taxes here, just pay light dues and circulation tax but most avoid paying the latter
billskip
Well-Known Member
Its certainly seems to be the best place to take up residence, I was somewhat restricted in choosing as Tibi's son and grandson had already moved to Tenerife in 2019, also Tenerife/Spain is more welcoming to Venezuelans due to history.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
It was the easiest place to obtain temporary residence as they just accepted a marina as an address, these days it's far harder with many hoops to jump through as we're no longer EU citizens. Problem for many will be when their 5 year temporary runs out and they've not become established or, in most cases, can't even prove they've been in country for the necessary 183 days p.a.
nortada
Well-Known Member
Not that it effects us anymore but in Portugal, it will be who you know so we’re I in this situation, I would cuddle up to those Portuguese movers and shakers, who could further our cause.
greeny
Well-Known Member
Agree, but for most people who gained temp res. just before B day. that day of reckoning is 2/3/4 years away and not even on their radar. However it is what they do today and over the time leading up to their date of expiry that will validate or not their permanent application. For instance whilst a marina address was acceptable initially it may not be for permanent res. Who knows what they're going to ask for or look at and once again, individual regions will ask for different things and there will be no common lists of "proof". When I did my permanent res. at SEF Portimao it was very different from the "camera based" temp residence process. Much more official and searching and checking of my documents and proof that I actually lived here, and that was before B was even on the agenda. For me it was pretty much a formality as I genuinely lived here and met the criteria but I still had to go through the process. They even asked for bank statements to show my expenditure over the 5 years and that it had a steady transaction pattern of use and not spasmodic as one of a "holiday maker" type residence would be. By the time these temp residences come around for assessment, SEF will probably no longer exist in its current form and I'm sure there will be new interpretations on the law so we will just have to wait and see what they do. It would definitely be advisable for anyone facing this in the next few years to start building their dossier of proof now so they are not faced with backtracking 5 years looking for evidence like bank statements, utility bills, maybe rental contracts etc etc. I didn't have to produce every bank statement or utility bill for the last 5 years, just a sprinkling of evidence was enough when I went. A shoe box in the study is what my wife is using to occasionally drop bits of evidence into as the years progress. Then hopefully on the day its required, most of the ancilliary evidence she needs will be in that box for her.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
As you say, it won't be an easy process now for most. Fortunately, before Brexit and as a citizen's family member, I didn't have to provide most of the information you list, just the property registration to confirm my address. It was just a case of visit SEF in Lisbon, fill in a couple of forms, leave my Portuguese wife to do the talking then wait for another appointment to have finger print and photo taken and be handed the permanent card.
