Red diesel problems in Belgium again it seems
- Thread starter Momac
- Start date
Cantata
Well-known member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
From an owners association website, posted this morning -
"This weekend I met 2 disgruntled sailors from the Medway in Ramsgate. They and 2 others had just returned from Belgium after being fined 700 Euro for red diesel in their tanks.
Two had red diesel in their tanks and had always used it, but despite having receipts showing tax had been paid in England they had on the spot fines of 700 euro.
One had not used red diesel for 2 years and ironically had just put 30 litres of white diesel in. He was fined as traces of red were found and no allowance for his present usage was made.
I do not know the details of the 4th in the party.
They all were boarded within 30 min of arrival in Nieuport where the fuel analyses were made."
From an owners association website, posted this morning -
"This weekend I met 2 disgruntled sailors from the Medway in Ramsgate. They and 2 others had just returned from Belgium after being fined 700 Euro for red diesel in their tanks.
Two had red diesel in their tanks and had always used it, but despite having receipts showing tax had been paid in England they had on the spot fines of 700 euro.
One had not used red diesel for 2 years and ironically had just put 30 litres of white diesel in. He was fined as traces of red were found and no allowance for his present usage was made.
I do not know the details of the 4th in the party.
They all were boarded within 30 min of arrival in Nieuport where the fuel analyses were made."
NormanS
Well-known member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
Sorry, but I don't understand people being caught out by this. It's a known problem/danger. Do these people not know what happens if they put their fingers in a fire?
Sorry, but I don't understand people being caught out by this. It's a known problem/danger. Do these people not know what happens if they put their fingers in a fire?
Tomahawk
Well-known member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
Does anyone have contact details for Belgium customs?
I think it is worth asking them straight how to comply with their requirements given the circumstances of historic staining of fuel tanks that will be common in UK operated boats.
Does anyone have contact details for Belgium customs?
I think it is worth asking them straight how to comply with their requirements given the circumstances of historic staining of fuel tanks that will be common in UK operated boats.
grumpy_o_g
Well-known member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
I think the problem is that the Belgian authorities and the RYA both assured them that the fire had gone out. Unfortunately someone in Belgium appears to have lit it again without telling anyone.
I think the problem is that the Belgian authorities and the RYA both assured them that the fire had gone out. Unfortunately someone in Belgium appears to have lit it again without telling anyone.
PaulR
Active member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
am somewhat surprised at lack of further comment from RYA whose advice until now had been to carry uk receipts showing tax had been paid and copies of letters available from their web site - given events reported this month and peak holiday season would have hoped for refreshed guidance from them even if it is to sail past Belgium
am somewhat surprised at lack of further comment from RYA whose advice until now had been to carry uk receipts showing tax had been paid and copies of letters available from their web site - given events reported this month and peak holiday season would have hoped for refreshed guidance from them even if it is to sail past Belgium
sailorman
Well-known member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
Last week i wrote to the Belgian Ambassador, pointing out the fines mentioned here & RYA reports .
I asked what the position was regarding "trace" & how are we expected to be able to comply with limited white availability.
2 yrs ago when i went all white the issue was getting more than 20 lts at a time from a filling stn. I contacted Gus Lewis at the RYA & really got no where, as supply is down to the forecourt operator alone who is personally liable for what goes on the forecourt
Last week i wrote to the Belgian Ambassador, pointing out the fines mentioned here & RYA reports .
I asked what the position was regarding "trace" & how are we expected to be able to comply with limited white availability.
2 yrs ago when i went all white the issue was getting more than 20 lts at a time from a filling stn. I contacted Gus Lewis at the RYA & really got no where, as supply is down to the forecourt operator alone who is personally liable for what goes on the forecourt
Tomahawk
Well-known member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
The RYA have been taken over by bug huggers and seem concerned with promoting the environmental lobby and other matters such as diversity. Simple sailors are not their concern.
The RYA have been taken over by bug huggers and seem concerned with promoting the environmental lobby and other matters such as diversity. Simple sailors are not their concern.
Champagne Murphy
Active member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
Can we not lobby the RYA over this?
I'm starting to wonder what my sub is for.
Can we not lobby the RYA over this?
I'm starting to wonder what my sub is for.
Daydream believer
Well-known member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
I am a little disappointed that when I asked the RYA if they would support any members in legally trying to recover unfair fines. I cited the possible failure to actually measure the % of red dye in the fuel when issuing the fine. Something which they seem not to have considered.
The response was "No".
This was on the grounds that they have always advised that the use of red diesel is considered illegal & it is the individual's fault if they decide not to heed that advice
I was further advised that the legal team was only qualified in UK matters & would not support members on challenging cases in Belgium.
I would imagine that this response has been well versed within the organisation & is one that is difficult to challenge. Yes , they have advised that it is illegal; but they have suggested ways to overcome the problem ( ie with receipts etc) but seem to have given up
I am a little disappointed that when I asked the RYA if they would support any members in legally trying to recover unfair fines. I cited the possible failure to actually measure the % of red dye in the fuel when issuing the fine. Something which they seem not to have considered.
The response was "No".
This was on the grounds that they have always advised that the use of red diesel is considered illegal & it is the individual's fault if they decide not to heed that advice
I was further advised that the legal team was only qualified in UK matters & would not support members on challenging cases in Belgium.
I would imagine that this response has been well versed within the organisation & is one that is difficult to challenge. Yes , they have advised that it is illegal; but they have suggested ways to overcome the problem ( ie with receipts etc) but seem to have given up
westhinder
Well-known member
I did contact them and was promised a full answer by Friday, which did not happen.
And I will now be off grid for at least two weeks, so will be unable to follow it up, sorry
Javelin
Well-known member
I think the solution will be driven by the Belgian Clubs and businesses that will now suffer from reduced revenue over the rest of the year.
They are in a far stronger position to lobby those who have control over the issue rather than trying to get the RYA or anyone else, this side of the pond, to do anything constructive.
After fining the racing fleet the next jump in this saga would be to stop, check and fine a yacht sailing in their territorial waters, which is something they have threatened to do in the past.
Anyone fancy running the gauntlet to see if they do it?
They are in a far stronger position to lobby those who have control over the issue rather than trying to get the RYA or anyone else, this side of the pond, to do anything constructive.
After fining the racing fleet the next jump in this saga would be to stop, check and fine a yacht sailing in their territorial waters, which is something they have threatened to do in the past.
Anyone fancy running the gauntlet to see if they do it?
BabySharkDooDooDooDooDoo
Well-known member
It was reported here that at least one boat has already been fined while transiting their waters
Pords
Member
Been going to neiupoort every year for years with and without the club, but this year we have cancelled the club cruise to Belgium and will be staying in French waters because of this fiasco. Shame as i really like it there, and look forward to my customary visit. Hopefully someone will see sense, as the people who run the marinas said last year that numbers of British yachts visiting have dropped of considerably over the years because of this problem with red diesel.
Tomahawk
Well-known member
Just added markers for the limits of idiots territorial waters... They make a trip from the UK to Holland into a difficult passage. And a no go for France to Holland.
jant
Member
The Cruising association are lobbying, but do offer the following advise
Red Diesel Use in Belgium
Regulations and Technical Services Group
News
Printer-friendly versionPDF version
UPDATE: 06/07/2017 - RATS new advice to members - not to call into Belgian ports
RATS has heard of other yachts being fined as well as our CA Members informing us about their friend's plight. These friends have now told RATS in detail of their traumatic experience with the Belgian officials.
We have spoken again with our Belgian marina contact who can offer no reason for, nor why no warning has been given about the non-observance of the agreed 'understanding' of their position over UK yachts with red engine diesel.
The sudden change this year of their conduct and apparent random heavy fining for vessels having even residual traces of red diesel engine fuel, together with no guarantee of the Belgian officials adhering to the original RATS advice note, is unhelpful.
All of this has made RATS review the situation again. They have concluded that they must now raise their level of advice to Members not to call into Belgian ports.
In the meantime RATS will continue to monitor the position and post any further advice.
If Members have comments on, information or details about the Belgian actions, RATS will be pleased to hear from them and thanks them in advance.
Please see the updated document attached below for further information and advice from RATS on the use of red diesel when in EU waters.
WFA
Member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
Also ask why UK yachtsmen are prioritised over dealing with other more pressing national/European issues https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/17/terrorists-belgium-paris-attacks
Also ask why UK yachtsmen are prioritised over dealing with other more pressing national/European issues https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/17/terrorists-belgium-paris-attacks
Tomahawk
Well-known member
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
For the same reason that the plod are somkeen to set up speed traps and ignore burglary assult and rape.
It is easy and makes them money.
For the same reason that the plod are somkeen to set up speed traps and ignore burglary assult and rape.
It is easy and makes them money.
st599
Well-known member
Why would a Belgian official adhere to a CA notice?
apollo
...
Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017
Have to say i am seriously disappointed with the RYA, and very impressed with the Cruising Association - i may change my direct debit (and i get to fly a blu ensign too)
Have to say i am seriously disappointed with the RYA, and very impressed with the Cruising Association - i may change my direct debit (and i get to fly a blu ensign too)