raggies

[landaftaf]

Re: Giving up dinghy racing

why not introduce a seniority table aka the rn........ obviously junior skippers give way to senior skippers etc ...... current lists of seniority could be kept on this forum for instant reference.
we would need a committee of course .......
any volanteers ??

 

[tcm]

Re: Er er....

Bit uncalled for, fireball. For the umpteenth time, rule 9b says boats over 20m should not be impeded. So "some moboer believe they always have right of way" is actually correct - in a narrow channel if the boats over 20metres, if the sailing vessel is overtaking for example - which will happen frequently with fast dingies. Not my rules, THE rules.

Again, kids in optimists etc notwithstanding - tho most planing dingies overtaking mobo's AREN't oppies, and nor do too many oppies wang around the main channels.

Although the occassions are rare, it seems you are quite happy that you can't name at least three occassions on which a power vessel has right of way and/or that even if you can, hundreds or even thousands of others under dinghy sail cannot.

Planty's account of dinghy novices all being told power invariablygives way to sail shows how wrong you are to carry on regardless. That attitude may sadly lead to more of the accidents that shouldn't happen. Or at least, to more close calls.

There again, if you consider 3 crashes to be really quite good, what the heck i spose...

I hope you might ease up on judgement of others until you've actually read the IRPCS, rather than battering on in a subject which yiou plainly hope that years of bad habits count for more than careful reading and understanding of the regs.

Hey - it's a change for colreg on mbchat innit!

 

[fireball]

Re: Er er....

Most mobers where I sail are under 20m ... the channels are wide enough and opertunities to keep clear of one another great enough.

I do know when I don't have right of way

3 accidents - only one being when I was not Stand On vessel - in 20 years ... as I said - it depends on volume and type of boating ... close racing 2-3 times per week time and occaisions for incidents adds up.

I'm not sure why you've turned this into a personal attack on me as though I'm racing my dinghy in the path of every powered vessel regardless...


Do you expect novice sailors to learn the complete colregs before being allowed to helm?

As I've suggested before, assume the other boats are helmed by idiots and you won't go far wrong - that works for everyone.

hlb - I don't know where you've got dinghies racing across a confined channel, but any race officer that sets a course that soley goes to and fro across a busy channel needs their head seeing too ... and perhaps this should be taken up with the club in question.

 

[hlb]

Re: Er er....

Do you expect novice sailors to learn the complete colregs before being allowed to helm?

Yep!

 

[fireball]

Re: Er er....

Ah well ... I expect you'd also like them to be olympic class sailors before they launch?

Sounds to me like you need a moving exclusion zone around your boat ...

 

[tcm]

Help for fireball *DELETED*

Post deleted by tcm

 

[fireball]

Re: Help for TCM

read the post from 10:02 ... and stop wasting your time.

 

[tcm]

Re: Help for TCM

er, you simply don't know the rules! You think YOU have right of weay crossing a channel, and that isn't the case. Oh, and best not tell others what to do - especially when you don't really know what YOU should be doing.

Here's some easy ones for fireball ONLY

1. what does eight short blasts mean?

2. You're about to cross a narrow dredged channel at low tide and a moderate sized sailing boat is motoring down the channel. Who should keep out of the way of whom?

 

[Its_Only_Money]

Re: Giving up dinghy racing

I have a Miracle at home in the garage so don´t attempt to place me in the mobo rules all camp.

If I am judging you it is by your own record, yes I consider the incidents you have listed as serious ("cut in half", "holed" etc etc) and I b elieve they come out of the inherent close-quarter racing environment BUT I also believe that when this close-quarter racing environment where rules are applied for tactical advantage overlaps physically with the normal safety-first seagoing environment then the chances of firstly friction and secondly accidents/tragedy increases disproportionatly.

No personal attack intended....

 

[fireball]

Re: Help for TCM

And here is some easy ones for TCM ...

Why do you assume I don't know the rules? Surely the rules have to be applied in context.

So I suggest you don't assume to tell ME what to do.

 

[tcm]

aye - there\'s the rub!

but - it's NOT me telling you what to do. I'm simply repeating the rules. They aren't my rules. Honest!

 

[fireball]

Re: aye - there\'s the rub!

I'm really not sure how we got here...
I believe we've got a difference in senario ...

I don't know the colregs inside out, and probably never will do.

The offer still stands - Haydn - if you want to come and have a race on a Sunday then your welcome.

FWIW - as race officer I try not to set courses across busy channels and did make a point of keeping the race out of the main fairway earlier this year. Didn't stop a lot of other boats (both under sail and power) going through the race area though ..

If a school is teaching novices that power vessels always give way then that is obviously wrong, but they should have suitable control and aim to keep the teaching group out of busy areas.

 

[tcm]

Re: aye - there\'s the rub!

fine - nuff said.

(one dificulty is mutual wariness hereabouts of putting up much in "bio" - sorry for treating you occassioanlly as tho you were gungho knownowt)

 

[fireball]

Re: aye - there\'s the rub!

sorry for treating you occassioanlly as tho you were gungho knownowt

Thats alright - I was once ... when I first started sailing ... I know better .... must be the age!

Ask Brendan who I am .. I'm sure he'll find me ... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: aye - there\'s the rub!

So, what do 8 short blasts mean then?

 

[tcm]

8 short blasts

"what are your intentions" = At LEAST five short blasts

(and NOT "what the hell are you doing?!!!! - oh well whatever it is - I'm reversing!")

 

[duncan]

Re: Time to quote the actual rules verbatum

well over 100 posts and a fair bit of sloppy wording has crept in............

9 (b) seems to be making a specific reference to powered craft under 20m and all sailing craft but does not stipulate that the craft not to be impeded has to be over 20m........

(b) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.

(d) A vessel shall not cross a narrow passage or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel.
9(d) seems pretty clear..........

34 (d) is of course

(d) When vessels in sight of one another are approaching each other and from any cause either vessel fails to understand the intentions or actions of the other, or is in doubt whether sufficient action is being taken by the other to avoid collision, the vessel in doubt shall immediately indicate such doubt by giving at least five short and rapid blasts on the whistle. Such signal may be supplemented by at least five short and rapid flashes. as already referred to above and I presume dingy sailors loosely translate this to 'the loud verbal issue of at least 5 expletives staccato fashion'.

 

[landaftaf]

Re: Time to quote the actual rules verbatum

indeed, the craft which is constrained by her draft in the channel may well be a sailing vessel, so shouting stbd to her from another sailing vessel which has the wind on her port side will not make any difference at all .......... BANG oops *&^%

 

[gandy]

Re: Time to quote the actual rules verbatum

[ QUOTE ]
...
9 (b) seems to be making a specific reference to powered craft under 20m and all sailing craft but does not stipulate that the craft not to be impeded has to be over 20m......

[/ QUOTE ]

Which begs the question, what if both craft are under 20m, but both feel constrained to the channel and expect not be "impeded". Does expecting the other craft to keep to starboard and make room for you count as "impeding"?

Tony S

 

[l'escargot]

Re: Time to quote the actual rules verbatum

Is there an accepted definition to "impede" for the colregs?

The dictionary says: to stop the progress of; to obstruct; to delay; to hinder; to prevent.

If it is taken literally, you are impeding a boat that overtakes you - yes I know that another rule says the boat being overtaken must "stand on" and a lot of rules contradict each other - I am just exploring the the idea and interested in other peoples interpretations (though I expect I'll regret this /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif)