25931
Well-known member
I haven't seen any reports of wooden rudders being attacked , perhaps worth considering ?
Orca attack
- Thread starter Sailfree
- Start date
KevinV
Well-known member
That's amazing, I only know about 4, and a few hitches ?
greeny
Well-known member
Maybe some sense in considering something like that. I've seen online pictures of a couple of boats that have welded steel spikes to their steel rudders. If the grp rudders were built with the steel spikes welded to the stock and framing before final layup it may help deter them. It could be construed in law as deliberate intention to harm the orcas but only if they bite it in my view. Besides its under the water and no one will know once you're launched.
yes I understand abut the turbulence but better that than no rudder left.
chrishscorp
Well-known member
No reason why you couldnt have something that bolts on the bottom and rear edge that you could then unbolt once through the Gib straits / back too blighty
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
I have never thought it likely that Orca are chewing rudders for fun. After reading the Gibraltar Strait Handbook I am convinced that their activity is based on a more instinctive reaction to the Tuna nets and Fish Keeps that "litter" the coast. I was amazed how many there were. I had no idea. So many they need to be beaconed with transmitters and bouys.
I am not sure that any species would have the ability to recognise a statistical decrease in the actual number of Tuna. That would require a historical memory. And why connect the lack of Tuna to Boats. It has to be the Nets and Fish Keeps for the connection to humans in their boats.
I see no reason any species would turn a life or death situation into a game. Competition for recources in the natural world is common. Evolution has embedded response to these situations and I am sure that making a game of it is not in their playbook.
I am not sure that any species would have the ability to recognise a statistical decrease in the actual number of Tuna. That would require a historical memory. And why connect the lack of Tuna to Boats. It has to be the Nets and Fish Keeps for the connection to humans in their boats.
I see no reason any species would turn a life or death situation into a game. Competition for recources in the natural world is common. Evolution has embedded response to these situations and I am sure that making a game of it is not in their playbook.
greeny
Well-known member
Barbed wire maybe wrapped around would be a simple option but maybe not long enough spikes. Just like the fences in the fields to keep the cows in and that's not classed as inhumane. I have a lifting rudder so it would be easy for me to apply some sort of deterrent device and then remove it once out of the risk area. Although I think my rudder would probably be gone with the first bite anyway.
Maybe if boats started fitting a spiked deterrent device, the orcas would learn not to bite rudders anymore, in the same way they have learned and passed on the behaviour to bite them. Everyone says how intelligent they are so maybe it won't take too long for them to unlearn the bad behaviour.
capnsensible
Well-known member
capnsensible
Well-known member
This is the North end of the fish trap just outside the entrance to Barbatte. You can pass north of it.
The stern of the vessel in view is one of the Japanese freezer ships that depend several months there buying up Atlantic tuna.....
The stern of the vessel in view is one of the Japanese freezer ships that depend several months there buying up Atlantic tuna.....
capnsensible
Well-known member
For a bit of perspective.
chrishscorp
Well-known member
Indeed they will either unlearn what they are doing and that will be the end of it IF they are 'playing'
If they are not playing then I guess we will see next what they do to whales which is to ram them in the side repeatedly or go for the keel
Graham376
Well-known member
One thing I haven't seen posted is the cost of towing damaged boats. Not unusual for it to be several thousand euro in Portugal and maybe the same in Spain? Could be a very expensive event for those with basic third party insurance.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
I didn't know they were traps. I thought the Tuna were hauled in after they ran into the nets. I can imagine Tuna swimming around inside the trap while hungry Orca were like kids with their nose against the glass of the local candy shop.
Seeing this explains the Orca's behavoir to me at least. Still it does not solve the problem for yachts.
capnsensible
Well-known member
The nets kinda herd the fish into the trap. The ets are a couple of miles long.....or used to be.
That's one of 4 regular traps along the coast from Conil to Tarifa.
There is usually another west of Cabo Spartel on the Moroccan side and one in the bay south of Ceuta.
They are strongly constructed.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Do you know if those constructions are removed after the Tunny run or are they permanent? Seems a major job to put the whole outfit up and down for the winter? Great news though if they are removed for the winter as it stops them being a constant reminder to the Orca why they are so angry.
Not an idle question. It could mean that a passage down the coast and through the Straits may be safer during thr period when they have been removed.
Thanks for all this extra information.
Not an idle question. It could mean that a passage down the coast and through the Straits may be safer during thr period when they have been removed.
Thanks for all this extra information.
capnsensible
Well-known member
The net positions are on admiralty chart 142 with the seasons. Iirc the inbound Tuna, to spawn, is april to June and outbound August to September. I might be a tad out.
They are hard work to set and recover. The mooring anchors, scores of them, are very heavy and require a crane barge. Should you ever visit Barbatte, they are stored in the carpark by the fish dock and are impressive
The cadinal marks are fitted on open wooden boats, engine less, about 40 feet long. It's their sole purpose.
You can find vids on YouTube of the catch being pulled out of the trap, backbreaking and bloody work. As it has been for centuries. Ashore in the fishermen's bars, you will see that many of them have a finger or two missing. I doubt if their minds are seriously impeded with the notion of bursting a few rouge fat haddock
They are hard work to set and recover. The mooring anchors, scores of them, are very heavy and require a crane barge. Should you ever visit Barbatte, they are stored in the carpark by the fish dock and are impressive
The cadinal marks are fitted on open wooden boats, engine less, about 40 feet long. It's their sole purpose.
You can find vids on YouTube of the catch being pulled out of the trap, backbreaking and bloody work. As it has been for centuries. Ashore in the fishermen's bars, you will see that many of them have a finger or two missing. I doubt if their minds are seriously impeded with the notion of bursting a few rouge fat haddock
Wandering Star
Well-known member
I wasn’t aware of the enormity of the traps. I really can’t understand how the Orca can be blamed for their behaviour in the areas of the traps, rather like me looking through the window of a room and seeing a large plate of fresh cream eclairs stacked high on a plate set on a table in the middle of a locked room.
Orcas / dolphins / whales have been around forever, there have always been infrequent attacks on small boats, some recorded, some suspected but not recorded.. I agree The recent spate of attacks are worrying but as I mentioned previously, it’s their playpen and suggestions to kill or cull are, imo, well wide of the mark and sailors need to tailor their passage plans to circumvent the dodgy Orca areas I think it’s been suggested there are inshore routes or African side routes which might require a less direct passage plan than the traditional and obvious one but so what - why the rush? Speaking for myself sailing is all about the challenges thrown up on passage and this is just one fresh challenge - if sailors can’t find a solution to this new challenge which then there’s always Ryanair!
Out of interest, has flow of boats in and out of the Med dried up?
Orcas / dolphins / whales have been around forever, there have always been infrequent attacks on small boats, some recorded, some suspected but not recorded.. I agree The recent spate of attacks are worrying but as I mentioned previously, it’s their playpen and suggestions to kill or cull are, imo, well wide of the mark and sailors need to tailor their passage plans to circumvent the dodgy Orca areas I think it’s been suggested there are inshore routes or African side routes which might require a less direct passage plan than the traditional and obvious one but so what - why the rush? Speaking for myself sailing is all about the challenges thrown up on passage and this is just one fresh challenge - if sailors can’t find a solution to this new challenge which then there’s always Ryanair!
Out of interest, has flow of boats in and out of the Med dried up?
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
@Wandering Star. It is OK for you because you have the Heavens to Wander round in, but the rest of us are stuck here on planet earth.
nortada
Well-known member
After a few successful expensive claims for tows after a orca incident, I suspect insurers could refuse cover in this circumstance.
They will argue that vessels are putting themselves into a known hazardous situation. Additionally they will explain that because of this additional risk, premiums in orca areas will have to be higher.
webcraft
Well-known member
webcraft
Well-known member
Indeed. We only have 3rd Party on Avy-J and will only be calling for a tow if our survival is threatened.
Pingers and a swift gear change if possible will be the order of the day. I also intend to take our Navik water paddle from its normal (vulnerable) stowed position and put it on deck when coastal sailing.
I imagine it will not be long even for the comprehensively insured before there is, at the very least, an 'Orca excess' for boats in these waters.
- W