Orca attack

[capnsensible]

Thank you for stimulating me to gain more knowledge by research .I now know that I was wrong. The neanderthals ,like their descendants, were unable to distinguish between whales and dolphins and even thought that they were all fish.

You are welcome. Every day a school day. Enjoy your new found knowledge.

 

[25931]

I enjoy learning,unlike the neanderthals who can't even see that orcas are dolphins.

 

[capnsensible]

I enjoy learning,unlike the neanderthals who can't even see that orcas are dolphins.

 

[SaltIre]

What language did the neanderthals speak in that area?

Neanderthalish.

 

[Seven Spades]

The RYA should be lobbying the Spanish government in behalf of its members. The only solution is to cull this small pod before the behaviour is spread to other pods. They need to nip this in the bud. To suggest that it is Ok for fishermen to deploy pingers are a preventative measure permanently, yet not to allow its use as self defence whilst being attacked is laughable.

 

[nortada]

The RYA should be lobbying the Spanish government in behalf of its members. The only solution is to cull this small pod before the behaviour is spread to other pods. They need to nip this in the bud. To suggest that it is Ok for fishermen to deploy pingers are a preventative measure permanently, yet not to allow its use as self defence whilst being attacked is laughable.

Is it known that it is just a small pod or is it becoming more general behaviour

Whatever, the Spanish Government will never sanction a cull, as it is against current Spanish law and as nobody has been killed or injured, would produce a backlash of public opinion, worldwide.

Using their laws, the Spanish Government is more likely to sanction anybody injuring or harassing orcas.

ln this situation, rights and wrongs will not even come into it.

Does a law permitting the application of legal self defence against a protected species attacking property rather than individual exist (in Spain)

 

[Seven Spades]

But this is why we need a body like the RYA to lobby for an exceptional action. Sad as it is it needs to be dealt with supposing all whales started attacking yachts, it would be the end of blue water sailing.

 

[Graham376]

Neanderthalish.

The drunken ones on Rynair flights are very hard to understand.

 

[cherod]

Is it known that it is just a small pod or is it becoming more general behaviour

Whatever, the Spanish Government will never sanction a cull, as it is against current Spanish law and as nobody has been killed or injured, would produce a backlash of public opinion, worldwide.

Using their laws, the Spanish Government is more likely to sanction anybody injuring or harassing orcas.

ln this situation, rights and wrongs will not even come into it.

Does a law permitting the application of legal self defence against a protected species attacking property rather than individual exist (in Spain)

Or anywhere else for that matter , i doubt that any government / controlling authoritive body would sanction the wandering off into wilderness areas and the killing off of any indiginous species which might in some way spoil their particular aspect of enjoyment . Thankfully .

 

[25931]

Is it known that it is just a small pod or is it becoming more general behaviour

Whatever, the Spanish Government will never sanction a cull, as it is against current Spanish law and as nobody has been killed or injured, would produce a backlash of public opinion, worldwide.

Using their laws, the Spanish Government is more likely to sanction anybody injuring or harassing orcas.

ln this situation, rights and wrongs will not even come into it.

Does a law permitting the application of legal self defence against a protected species attacking property rather than individual exist (in Spain)

If the damage could cause the boat to sink then that is attacking people.

 

[nortada]

If the damage could cause the boat to sink then that is attacking people.

Agree but unfortunately loss of human life may have to be the catalyst for any official action.

 

[nortada]

But this is why we need a body like the RYA to lobby for an exceptional action. Sad as it is it needs to be dealt with supposing all whales started attacking yachts, it would be the end of blue water sailing.

I suspect the RYA would be very reluctant to associate itself with lobbying for ‘illegal’ exceptional action. Especially when the problem doesn’t exist in their area of interest.

A more realistic approach would be to get conservationists interested in exploring why this change in behaviour and a possible counter.

ps all whales have not started attacking yachts but were this to happen, it could result no insurance for offshore passages and yes, the demise in blue water sailing in affected areas.

 

[Wandering Star]

I’m totally unconvinced these “attacks“ are anything more than attempts at playful interactions between these beasts and sailors. I agree there’s potential for serious accident or damage to a sailors boat which is worrying but I‘m not sold on the interpretation the Orcas predeliction for chewing up rudders is wilful aggressive behaviour. There’s probably a preponderance of interaction in areas where Orcas have learned to hunt Tuna etc but mistaking a rudder for a Tuna isn’t likely, I just think if sailors pass through areas where Orcas gather for their grub, one or two of those Orcas may be a little too playful and mistake the rudder action of the yacht for a plaything in much the same way as a kitten chases a rolled up bit of newspaper on a bit of string.

Rather than culling Orcas, we should stay out of their way and plan our passages to pass outside of their territory - however inconvenient - it’s their playpen, we’re the intruders not them. I think it’s sad there are sailors who think it’s ok to cull these beasts just because it makes their hobby less stressful than having to deal with it.

 

[capnsensible]

Having watched the link I posted in#435 several times, I'm unsurprised that a tuna being landed by a line into a fishing boat could well indeed look like a yacht rudder. Why don't they attack motor boats?

Happens I'm also very familiar with the area around Cape Trafalgar and the Straits. There is a huge amount of commercial fishing. Cattle herds across the globe are protected from predators. Why not tuna? But of course, those whose livelihoods and passagemaking aren't directly threatened will probably stick up for lions, tigers, crocodiles and all the rest from the comfort of their armchairs. There may even be a Fair Play For Locusts Liberation Front.....

But in the meantime, if you intend to pass through the area....and why not......simply stay in 10m from Cadiz to Caraminal. Quite safe and you can pass inboard of the tuna traps off Conil, use the inshore passage around Cape Trafalgar and inside the trap off Barbatte. And most certainly stay away from the fishing fleets that operate around there during the tuna seasons landing by line.

That would be my passage plan. Others, of course, will have different ideas.

Also beware of strong winds, strong tides, fog and lightning storms. Apart from that......

 

[Wandering Star]

Also beware of strong winds, strong tides, fog and lightning storms. Apart from that......

what about the Kraken - or is that just a myth?

 

[Seven Spades]

I’m totally unconvinced these “attacks“ are anything more than attempts at playful interactions between these beasts and sailors. I agree there’s potential for serious accident or damage to a sailors boat which is worrying but I‘m not sold on the interpretation the Orcas predeliction for chewing up rudders is wilful aggressive behaviour. There’s probably a preponderance of interaction in areas where Orcas have learned to hunt Tuna etc but mistaking a rudder for a Tuna isn’t likely, I just think if sailors pass through areas where Orcas gather for their grub, one or two of those Orcas may be a little too playful and mistake the rudder action of the yacht for a plaything in much the same way as a kitten chases a rolled up bit of newspaper on a bit of string.

Rather than culling Orcas, we should stay out of their way and plan our passages to pass outside of their territory - however inconvenient - it’s their playpen, we’re the intruders not them. I think it’s sad there are sailors who think it’s ok to cull these beasts just because it makes their hobby less stressful than having to deal with it.

I think you are delusional. How do you stay out of their area if you are trying to get to the Med from the U.K. There are intelligent creatures they know exactly what they are doing they are not playing they are deliberately damaging boats.

 

[sarabande]

It seems that there are two types of whale killer dolphin groups; the transient one, which are more active, and the residential ones, who are quieter.

 

[nortada]

I think you are delusional. How do you stay out of their area if you are trying to get to the Med from the U.K. There are intelligent creatures they know exactly what they are doing they are not playing they are deliberately damaging boats.

Just wish I understood Orcas thought processes as well as you clearly do.?

With your gift, rather than suggesting a cull, possibly you could establish a link with them to explain the error of their ways. As you say, they are intelligent creatures so should be susceptible to cogent, persuasive argument. ??

Are you considering entering Orca territory or is your’s an armchair position

Whatever, an interesting discussion.

 

[webcraft]

I’m totally unconvinced these “attacks“ are anything more than attempts at playful interactions between these beasts and sailors. I agree there’s potential for serious accident or damage to a sailors boat which is worrying but I‘m not sold on the interpretation the Orcas predeliction for chewing up rudders is wilful aggressive behaviour. There’s probably a preponderance of interaction in areas where Orcas have learned to hunt Tuna etc but mistaking a rudder for a Tuna isn’t likely, I just think if sailors pass through areas where Orcas gather for their grub, one or two of those Orcas may be a little too playful and mistake the rudder action of the yacht for a plaything in much the same way as a kitten chases a rolled up bit of newspaper on a bit of string.

Rather than culling Orcas, we should stay out of their way and plan our passages to pass outside of their territory - however inconvenient - it’s their playpen, we’re the intruders not them. I think it’s sad there are sailors who think it’s ok to cull these beasts just because it makes their hobby less stressful than having to deal with it.

Like so many who feel qualified to comment on this, you seem to have very little understanding of the problem. know very little about the problem. Here are a few facts which might help you:

• This is new behaviour, originally exhibited by younger members of a single pod, but somehow later passed on to members of another pod. The fact that it is spreading is extremely concerning.
  
  
• The 'playfulness' always takes the same form -repeated biting and ramming of the rudder until the vessel is disabled. The orcas then go away.
  
  
• 'Planning to pass outside their territory' would stop all coastal sailing along the coasts of NW Spain, Portugal and the Spanish coast between Ayamonte and Gibralter.
  
  
• It would make entry or exit from the Mediterranean impossible, and all sailors on the Atlantic Iberian coast would have to stop sailing and get rid of their vessels. This would completely destroy a large industry dependent on the yachting community.
  
  
  It really doesn't matter if it is 'wilful aggressive behaviour' or not. If you care about our sport and (for many) their chosen way of life then it has the potential to be a huge problem and a solution needs to be found.

- W

 

[SaltIre]

Has the Prince of Whales been approached for support?