25931
Well-known member
You do not appear to be familiar with the area or you would understand CapnS' post.
Orca attack
- Thread starter Sailfree
- Start date
webcraft
Well-known member
Has the Prince of Whales been approached for support?
He looks like he is chewing on a wasp, not a rudder
- W
webcraft
Well-known member
It is pretty elementary geography. Perhaps you would care to explain how to get to the Med without going through the Straits of Gibralter?
- W
SaltIre
Well-known member
Perhaps use the Straits of Gibraltar instead?
webcraft
Well-known member
Perhaps use the Straits of Gibraltar instead?
Good idea,
But they also infested with orca, I'm afraid.
- W
25931
Well-known member
Vide. CapnS. 454
webcraft
Well-known member
I'm sure your posts make perfect sense to you
I am however struggling to see how WS's post #454 alters the geography of the area in any way.
- W
25931
Well-known member
A surprising supposition. I haven't heard of whales attacking boats - only dolphins and then only one genus
webcraft
Well-known member
Oh dear
Scientifically, all whales, dolphins and porpoises are classified as Cetacea. And within Cetacea are two suborders: baleen whales and toothed whales. Baleen whales include the really big ones, such as blue whales and humpbacks. Toothed whales include dolphins and orcas, or killer whales, as they’re often known. In fact, orcas are the largest dolphins, growing to be about 32 feet (10 meters) long. Many dolphins only average eight to nine feet (2-3 meters) in length.
So yes, orcas are dolphins, and dolphins are whales
- W
Beneteau381
Well-known member
This is his response to me after I made an official complaint about his atitude and behaviour.
"
Dear Mr D
Thank you for your email.
I am sorry that you did not find our telephone conversation helpful, that was not my intention.
With respect to your point concerning provision of information to RYA members involved in an incident with Orcas/ Killer Whales, the RYA has provided advice on our website. The guidance addresses both the safety of boaters and the protection of the orcas. It aims to reduce the impact of an incident on boat and crew as well as the legal aspects. Here is the link to the RYA guidance on this issue: https://www.rya.org.uk/news/revised-orca-guidelines
You also asked about the availability of maps showing locations of orca incidents. The Atlantic Orca Working Group has compiled and mapped a database for 2021 here: Last interactions | Orca iberica.
As I stated in the phone call, please let me know if you think there is a need for any additional information that the RYA could provide. It should, however, be noted that the Atlantic Orca Working Group is the lead organisation with responsibility, not the RYA. We are assisting by providing guidance to members leaving UK on passage through the area. You will see from the RYA website, that we link to the information provided by the Atlantic Orca Working Group and have co-ordinated with them, although our guidance is focused more on safety. I understand that the Group also has data for 2020.
The RYA is not aware that any of the recorded incidents in 2020 and 2021 have resulted in a sinking nor a direct attack on a person. We have been advised that there is no record of an attack being carried out by an orca on a person in the wild. Internationally, we are only aware of two incidents that resulted in sinkings. These took place in the 1970s and appear to have been accidental rather than due to a deliberate attack.
I understand from our call that you may have links to recreational sailors in the area who have concerns. If this is via a club or association, it may be useful for either ourselves or the Atlantic Orca Working Group to contact them directly to make recreational users aware of the existing guidance for craft in the area or on passage from UK.
I would be interested in hearing further about your suggestion concerning reversing a craft’s engine when approached by an Orca. I note, however, that under Spanish law (similar for the UK, France and Portugal) it is an offence to cause death, injury or disturbance to a whale or dolphin (Article 4, Royal decree 1727/2007- BOE.es - BOE-A-2008-516 Real Decreto 1727/2007, de 21 de diciembre, por el que se establecen medidas de protección de los cetáceos.). I note that the Atlantic Orca Working Group has provided a useful guide on how to interpret the law whilst sailing in company with cetaceans (whales and dolphins): Regulation in Spain | Orca iberica
In developing our safety orientated guidance, the RYA are working on behalf of our membership to safeguard boat users from any legal liability due to an ill-considered action. Given the information provided by the Atlantic Orca Working Group and from our members, that have been involved in incidents, our guidance is proportionate and in-line with legislation.
Yours sincerely,
Richard Hill
Planning and Environment Officer
Royal Yachting Association
Tel: 023 8060 4228 E: richard.hill@rya.org.uk
| RYA House, Ensign Way, Hamble, Southampton, Hampshire, SO31 4YA www.rya.org.uk T: 02380 604100 F: 02380 604299 |
From: S....
Sent: 11 October 2021 11:10
To: richard.hill@rya.org
Cc: CEO <ceo@rya.org.uk>
Subject: Orca discussion
Richard
Thank you for your discussion this morning about Orca attacks on yachts off Spain and Portugal.
Your interaction with a member who helps pay for your wages was, to be frank, not very nice.
Your refusal to let me make my point without you interrupting me and refusing to listen to me was the most disturbing point along with your hectoring style of engagement.
Please consider this as an official complaint.
I have copied this in to the CEO.
Moving on, the link to the website which you discussed would be helpful.
Regards
S.....
Last edited:
webcraft
Well-known member
He's a Richard...
- W
- W
Koeketiene
Well-known member
YouTube footage showing one older orca having a go at a rudder with a younger one nearby seemed to support this.
If it is indeed learned behaviour than it can also be unlearned.
I'm not sure that sitting there, doing nothing till they go away is the way to achieve anything.
25931
Well-known member
To the same extent that men are apesOh dear
Scientifically, all whales, dolphins and porpoises are classified as Cetacea. And within Cetacea are two suborders: baleen whales and toothed whales. Baleen whales include the really big ones, such as blue whales and humpbacks. Toothed whales include dolphins and orcas, or killer whales, as they’re often known. In fact, orcas are the largest dolphins, growing to be about 32 feet (10 meters) long. Many dolphins only average eight to nine feet (2-3 meters) in length.
So yes, orcas are dolphins, and dolphins are whales
- W
dslittle
Well-known member
“But in the meantime, if you intend to pass through the area....and why not......simply stay in 10m from Cadiz to Caraminal. Quite safe and you can pass inboard of the tuna traps off Conil, use the inshore passage around Cape Trafalgar and inside the trap off Barbatte. And most certainly stay away from the fishing fleets that operate around there during the tuna seasons landing by line.”
I read this somewhere - might be useful for those going into the Med…
webcraft
Well-known member
Indeed. Staying in less than 10m does seem to be safe. Inasmuch as any close inshore passage in shallow water is safe. It somewhat restricts ones options if the weather kicks up, and of course suddenly finding oneself rudderless on a lee shore in shallow water could be a bit unpleasant.
I hardly regard this as a long-term solution, particularly if the behaviour is being passed on to other pods.
- W
capnsensible
Well-known member
It's not supposed to be a long term solution, webs. It's a safe passage for anyone wanting to get in or out of the Straits for the foreseeable future. I recommend this on the basis that I've rounded Cape Trafalgar nearly 100 times and am happy to pass on my local knowledge.
A look at vesselfinder shows that perhaps there are still lots prepared to not be over concerned.
Further up the Peninsular, one can again stay quite close inshore along the Portugese coast.....but be prepared for a billion pot markers.
Have seen plenty of whales, various, up around Finnisterre too. But not threatened at all. Suppose luck plays it's part around there. However Cape St Vincent to Europa Point can be safely managed.
I can't find any reports of attacks on the South side of the Strait though. Wonder why that is? The problem pod seems to be about 50 strong, up from 30 a while ago. The tuna definitely run over there, big trap sw of Cape Spartel and gazillions of small Moroccan fishing boats everywhere. I keep being drawn to that image of large tuna being landed on lines into fishing boats and how that might look like a yacht rudder. But they fish the same way over that side, away from the traps.
Doesn't seem like anyone actually knows that much.
webcraft
Well-known member
capnsensible
Well-known member
For ever is longer.
Koeketiene
Well-known member
Eternity does tend to drag on - especially towards the end. ?
dunedin
Well-known member
To my mind that seems a very sensible and reasonable reply from the RYA, and he shows interest in following up the points you raised.
As others have noted, with this happening outside the UK one would not expect the RYA to be playing a lead role in the response - indeed under the rules of World Sailing, it probably is required to defer/refer to the Spanish and Portuguese equivalents (would you expect the Royal Spanish Sailing Federation to play a lead role in Studland Bay, for example?). But seems a reasonable reply.
PS. I note you are happy to quote in full on this forum Mr Hill’s letter and contact details yet redact your own details. Seems a bit inconsistent