New (England) restrictions impact on sailing?

[Sea-Fever]

Most teachers, like most people of working age, are near-zero risk themselves. They are not "cannon fodder" any more than doctors/nurses/supermarket workers, none of whom showed greater fatality or susceptibility through the first lockdown.

Teachers may not have shown susceptibility during the first lockdown because schools were shut.

Doctors and nurses, amazing people they are, get plastered in PPE.

My use of the phrase "cannon fodder" was meant to be supportive of teachers because they are unfortunately being exposed to large populations of young people up to the age of 21 who are spreading the disease...did you not see the amount of positive tests that came from university students???? Do you dispute this fact??

Teachers are not plastered in PPE but they are expected to move in and around young people all day long every day.

This isn't about protecting individuals. It's about collectively protecting those actually at risk, mainly the elderly, but also a small number of working age folks with e.g. type 1 diabetes or obesity. Those small numbers of teachers actually at risk may wish to seek time off, the rest must crack on.

You are saying that teachers are just individuals and not worthy of protection???

You're just agreeing with my point....they're basically being treated as cannon fodder. No protection but exposed to the virus.....crack on, as you say, take one for the team!

This is about deciding (right or wrong) that keeping schools open is one of the top priorities and therefore society/government accepts the collective risk to overall infections associated with schools. I strongly agree, because schools and children are NOT ANYWHERE shown to be significant or even average spreaders of disease; and because by having schools open you enable swathes of the country to go to work, including doctors and nurses as well as boring old taxpayers like me, because some children would otherwise be cooped up in sub-standard accommodation (and some of those again with their sub-standard parents), and because children's mental health seems to be an admirable health concern priority.

Yes you're talking about the kids again, but not the teachers.

I reiterate the point about the number student infections and the trajectory the disease in September when schools and university's went back.

I agree with your last observation. We should be able to travel, with our households, to our boats and go sailing. The "overnight" bit is a shame, but I can see where it comes from and will reluctantly observe it.

Haha...we agree on something

 

[Mark-1]

Of course, there are countries which have effectivey defeated the virus by using an adequate test, trace and isolate system.

They're atypical outliers. If solving Corona Virus was as easy as that everywhere would have done it. In fact very few places have.

 

[Mark-1]

This is wrong, and potentially dangerous, based on the best science at the moment, but a commonly held view.

This is worth watching which I think is as good a summary as any.

The video discusses the reasonably sound evidence that immunity is probably long lived, and maybe very long lived, and also why a vaccine was not developed for SARS, but which doent mean it will not be developed for COVID.

John Campbell is first class. Explains it slowly and links to sources. Best covid source there is AFAIK.

 

[Lucky Duck]

But if 60 million people all go to a place they consider safe....

Mind you, I'll be breaking the overnight law/rule this time so I'm hoping the other 59,999,999 people don't all have the same idea.


They're atypical outliers. If solving Corona Virus was as easy as that everywhere would have done it. In fact very few places have.

I remember the 'what if everyone goes' argument last time around.

However until July the place was largely deserted and it is November now rather than May or June.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Absolutely I do. What we're seeing here isn't working towards that goal though, is it? The number of things remaining open is insane. Schools and universities are the biggest risk areas already and they will continue as they have been.

The scientific consensus in Scotland seems to be that schools are not causing significant spreading.

Delivery drivers will still be free to go house to house like Typhoid Mary.

Typhoid Mary was an asymptomatic spreader who infected families by working as a cook. A delivery driver who worked whil einfected would only be infectious for a week and would only interact with people for seconds at a time. The drivers here leave stuff in my porch then stand back and ring the bell.

The latest scientific studies have shown that immunity is already being lost by those who have had Covid, ...

They suggest that antibodies may decrease over time. That doesn't necessarily mean immunity is lost

... which, if true, means that any vaccine will be innefective at best.

On the contrary, it shows that vaccines may be very useful in boosting and maintaining immunity. There has been no suggestion ("at best") from credible sources that vaccines will make things worse.

That's assuming we can still afford one having bought hundreds of millions of doses of vaccine which had not been tested and has now proved worthless.

No vaccine has yet been eliminated by clinical trials. It may well be that some turn out to be worthless, which is why governments have hedged their bets and bought doses of several. If any turns out to be safe and effective these doses can be given at once instead of waiting another six months for production to start.

All the government have achieved so far is a massive reduction in personal freedom, huge mental health issues, a society with dwindling fitness and potential long term health implications of a sedentary lifestyle, and ruin of the economy.

And saving the lives of many tens of thousands of us who would have died without the summer lockdown.

 

[atol]

Perhaps we need to revisit what is "Covid Safe" with an aerosol virus that can survive for extended periods outside during winter with less UV light and heat to kill it .
Wearing of ppe and distancing worked well in the summer,but is very ineffective in winter,the rise in cases is directly related to the change in weather.

 

[RAI]

They're atypical outliers. If solving Corona Virus was as easy as that everywhere would have done it. In fact very few places have.

On the contrary, just sort through the worldometer table.
Many countries have done much better than the UK, with its "world beating" test and trace system.
Nothing to do with atypical outliers, some just have better governance.

 

[Graham376]

I would'nt listen to anything an MP says, their relationship with facts and truth is often tenuous. Prime example is the current PM to whom the truth is alien.

At least he hasn't been suspended from the party yet

 

[Graham376]

Perhaps we need to revisit what is "Covid Safe" with an aerosol virus that can survive for extended periods outside during winter with less UV light and heat to kill it .
Wearing of ppe and distancing worked well in the summer,but is very ineffective in winter,the rise in cases is directly related to the change in weather.

As it would appear the virus can remain active for longer during cooler damp weather, all the more reason for PPE to be effective and recent spread according to the experts has more to do with return to schools and universities than the weather.

 

[RJJ]

Cannon fodder is an inappropriate term but I know of at least one teacher who will not be retuning to work tomorrow (and as a result will loose their job) as their partner is in a high risk group (chemo), " may wish to seek time off," is trite and doesn't reflect reality.

It is the reality. Whether the system does, should or must agree time off for school workers that are actually vulnerable or live with someone vulnerable is a separate question.

Otherwise, what are you saying? Schools shouldn't open because of a very small minority of workforce like the person you cite? Or every sector should shut down because of that still-small minority of workers? Great, that's the NHS and the supermarkets done for too. Lockdown's going to be great.

 

[michael_w]

IMHO MDL are always a bit 'work to rule'.

 

[jimi]

I may be completely and utterly wrong but my impression is that lockdown is necessary because people do not follow simple hygiene protocols.

 

[Blue Sunray]

It is the reality. Whether the system does, should or must agree time off for school workers that are actually vulnerable or live with someone vulnerable is a separate question.

Otherwise, what are you saying? Schools shouldn't open because of a very small minority of workforce like the person you cite? Or every sector should shut down because of that still-small minority of workers? Great, that's the NHS and the supermarkets done for too. Lockdown's going to be great.

As has been said already NHS workers get and work in PPE as do retail workers. School teaching staff do not and the level of contact in a classroom is rather higher that the latter.

What I'm saying it that your trite comments are just that and your Jack attitude shines through.

 

[Graham376]

I may be completely and utterly wrong but my impression is that lockdown is necessary because people do not follow simple hygiene protocols.

Contamination by lack of hygene is in the main caused by picking up aerosol deposits left through not wearing face covering. Seems us Europeans may have a lot to learn from more socially aware countries such as Japan where folks with even a common cold wear face masks to avoid spreading to others.

 

[lustyd]

The vast majority have been wearing face coverings though which would suggest either you want to blame the public (MPs certainly do!) or the virus is spreading in other ways.

 

[RivalRedwing]

you might find this interesting:
A room, a bar and a classroom: how the coronavirus is spread through the air

I have an open mind as to its accuracy, but the general principles make sense to me.

I just hope I can get back to the boat before its planned launch in mid Feb....

 

[Lucky Duck]

Confusion reigns

'Sports face collapse without guidance'

 

[JumbleDuck]

Yes and given the evidence we should do that now and get on with life. A vaccine is no use if immunity lasts only two months, which appears to be the case.

You may care to note that at last count - a week or so ago - there was precisely one confirmed case of re-infection in the entire world.

 

[JumbleDuck]

You may care to note that at last count - a week or so ago - there was precisely one confirmed case of re-infection in the entire world.

 

[lustyd]

Interesting, the paper by Imprerial College mentions at least 4. Your citation please?