jfm
Well-known member
Greetings - loving your pictures!BTW, greetings from Melbourne.
New build Sanlorenzo SL96A 2024
- Thread starter jfm
- Start date
jfm
Well-known member
This is under 24m LLL and LH rules, so normal Yachtmaster works ok within the law, and the insurers don't tend to add further rules of their own. I have not organised insurance yet.
This is one of a group of boats that work within the 24m rules so as to provide the biggest possible boat for the owner/driver market or at least the market for owners who don't want the heavy regulation that comes with boats over 24m. That group contains Princess X95+Y95, Sunseeker 95 +100, Pearl 95, Ferretti 920, Riva Argo+Corsaro, and so on.
jfm
Well-known member
Correct - chase boats by definition are not carried on the mother ship.
The tender carried on mother ship can be a Williams 435 inside the garage or a ~ 5.5m outboard+115hp outboard on the platform.
jfm
Well-known member
Nope!
jfm
Well-known member
At 2400hp each it's hard to find an alternative to MTU, and of course its widely regarded as the absolute best engine in its class, so it's a no brainer. All the previous (20 or so) boats in this SL96A series have the V16 MTU in the 2200hp version, and mine will be first/only one with the 2400hp version.
These engines are the 2000 series which means (as you know) they are fundamentally the same engine as in your boat, with a few extra cylinders added. Triple turbos.
Yes, on Vee gearboxes.
Portofino
Well-known member
What’s the rationale of going bigger Hp wise ?
Assume they occupy identical ER foot print , save a few extra bolt ons like maybe more forced induction hard where?
How many extra knots and how much additional fuel burn that normally comes with that are you getting over stock ?
I mean I can understand with a sporty open say Pershing , Otam , Magnum , Mangusta et al dare I say it Itama going for more , or pressuring the builder upwards in terms of performance .
Also mindful the natural engine manufacturers evolution up the Hp tree for given block.This isn’t it’s a deliberate decision by you to leapfrog up the Hp .Why ? If you don’t mind sharing ?
MapisM
Well-known member
A few? That's an understatement, if I've ever seen one... Twice the cylinders is more like it!
I'm also curious to hear from JV why he was missing a freq. converter, particularly on a 3-phase boat which is bound to be connected to pretty substantial/stable shorepower lines.
Maybe he used to ship the boat to some 60Hz remote Country during the winter...?
MapisM
Well-known member
Far from wishing to reply on jfm behalf, but my personal answer would be because you can!
jfm
Well-known member
Yup, will be interesting to hear. My guess is that JV had a problem in some places where shorepower was only available in single phase, whereas these boats (mine included) are fully 3 phase and need 3 phase shorepower and generators. A lot of the motors on board (even the miele washing machines!) are 3 ph and I'll have 3ph shore power in home berth.A few? That's an understatement, if I've ever seen one... Twice the cylinders is more like it!
I'm also curious to hear from JV why he was missing a freq. converter, particularly on a 3-phase boat which is bound to be connected to pretty substantial/stable shorepower lines.
Maybe he used to ship the boat to some 60Hz remote Country during the winter...?
When away in other ports I'm basically gambling that I will be able to find 3ph shorepower in most places. Remember also that due to the SoF bans on anchoring 24m boats, I will need to use marinas overnight more than I want to.
Elessar
Well-known member
Zero extra fuel burn at cruise. If you can afford it why would you not?
MapisM
Well-known member
No need to gamble, if and when you'll like to come to CF.
3Ph available on all dock pedestals where your ship can fit (128A, IIRC).
Oh, and no posidonia BS, either...!
jfm
Well-known member
A few factors in this decision, not in order:
1. I like unique features at resale time.
2. I care very much about noise underway (part of the reason for buying a SL in the first place because they do FAR more noise management than any other builder in this size). The bigger engines will run at ~ 100 rpm less at any given cruising speed, and in my book that matters as regards noise.
3. Propellers will have higher pitch. In my book that will help a bit in tricky berthing.
4. On the very rare occasions I need top speed, I have a bit more of it
5. The existing shafts and gearbox that they fit with the 2200 hp engines can handle the extra the additional torque of the 2400hp, so new drivetrain engineering wasn't required
6. As mapism says, in #28
As for extra knots top speed, I'd guess 1.5 or 2.
Extra fuel burn = ~zero at any given cruising speed.
As for evolution up the HP tree, I see what you're saying but that's mainly a worry when you're running at WOT or same load factor in an "evolved" engine, compared with an earlier evolution engine. But I wont be - these engines won't change my cruise speed so I'm extracting exactly the same HP from the 2400hp engines as I would from the 2200hp engines, at cruising speed.
Admittedly I'll be doing that same cruise speed with more torque and less rpm at any given speed, so a 10% bigger bang inside the cylinders but those bangs will happen 10% fewer times.
BTW this isn't the top HP rating for this engine - it comes in 2600hp version as well. It's an incredibly well proven engine, absolutely the best you can buy in this class. We are talking 16 cylinders and 32 litres in a heavy 3.5 tonne engine of which tens of thousands are already in use - perfectly ok to take 2400hp max and 1600hp cruise out of that imho.
jfm
Well-known member
No need to gamble, if and when you'll like to come to CF.
3Ph available on all dock pedestals where your ship can fit (128A, IIRC).
Oh, and no posidonia BS, either...!
Italy is becoming more and more attractive by the day...Plan to do Sardinia properly in first season = 2024 so please put some beers on ice
jfm
Well-known member
To give the context, the incremental charge for the bigger engines (with most builders who offer both engines, not just SL) is precisely €100k +vat.
Also, once you decide, you commit. These big MTU engines are allocated more than a year ahead- as soon as I signed the build contract and paid the deposit, in July 2022, Sanlorenzo ordered the engines from MTU.
I was offered in June 2022 a new build slot for a Riva Argo, to be delivered Q1 of 2024. The spec was wide open - I could choose everything. Except the MTU engines, because Riva had already forward -ordered them.
volvopaul
Well-known member
Hi John it’s good to have you back with what’s going to be a great thread on this new venture for you , this forum needs it because it’s gone a bit stale of late and like you I kind of dropped out for a while , looking forward to more photos and discussion.
Portofino
Well-known member
Agree ^ .A few factors in this decision, not in order:
1. I like unique features at resale time.
2. I care very much about noise underway (part of the reason for buying a SL in the first place because they do FAR more noise management than any other builder in this size). The bigger engines will run at ~ 100 rpm less at any given cruising speed, and in my book that matters as regards noise.
3. Propellers will have higher pitch. In my book that will help a bit in tricky berthing.
4. On the very rare occasions I need top speed, I have a bit more of it
5. The existing shafts and gearbox that they fit with the 2200 hp engines can handle the extra the additional torque of the 2400hp, so new drivetrain engineering wasn't required
6. As mapism says, in #28
As for extra knots top speed, I'd guess 1.5 or 2.
Extra fuel burn = ~zero at any given cruising speed.
As for evolution up the HP tree, I see what you're saying but that's mainly a worry when you're running at WOT or same load factor in an "evolved" engine, compared with an earlier evolution engine. But I wont be - these engines won't change my cruise speed so I'm extracting exactly the same HP from the 2400hp engines as I would from the 2200hp engines, at cruising speed.
Admittedly I'll be doing that same cruise speed with more torque and less rpm at any given speed, so a 10% bigger bang inside the cylinders but those bangs will happen 10% fewer times.
BTW this isn't the top HP rating for this engine - it comes in 2600hp version as well. It's an incredibly well proven engine, absolutely the best you can buy in this class. We are talking 16 cylinders and 32 litres in a heavy 3.5 tonne engine of which tens of thousands are already in use - perfectly ok to take 2400hp max and 1600hp cruise out of that imho.
Its what I have been preaching on here for yrs when threads come up comparing boat choices .Namely if possible always go for the higher Hp spec .For the reasons you elude to .Esp the lower rpm for a given cruise reason .It does make a difference folks .
It just makes you feel better ( well does me ! ) in the knowledge that you are not screwing the nuts off them .Realise in terms of longevity, longevity is multifaceted.But all the same I never really go more than 1760 rpm cruising with 20 + yr old motors .It would frighten me if I had to continuously see 2000 + rpm to get the thing to go any decent cruise speed .
A few builders like S / Skr and others give choice .In the used mkt there are bigger engined boats about .
I think smaller boat builders miss a trick by only ever offering one engine , this includes marque where applicable- found mostly sub 2000 Hp .
There is one disadvantage folks ……the bigger pitched wheels the bigger motors swing mean you have to click in and out more frequently in marina manoeuvres.No biggie you get used to it .Also there’s a lurch as it clicks in .With mine 20 T loaded tick over 600 rpm = over 8 knots .So gliding at 3-4 knots in N as you try pass through , if you bump / click up there’s quite a lurch Fwds …..the prop pitch thing .But as said it makes turning easier into berths , you know doing a 90 degree aisle turn into a med berth .
Had to work out if the bigger prop pitch from the bigger motors on 100 T from tick over to first click will be “ lurch “ noticed ? As it’s new territory.
Hurricane
Well-known member
Actually, by MTU, you mean Rolls Royce
I've just dug out my photos from my visit to the MTU Friedrichshafen factory.
This is a 12 cylinder CR2000 - I can't imagine the size of the ones you are having fitted
Yes, only the V8 (mine) has the twin turbo - all the others have triple turbos.
Anything bigger than yours, would have to be the CR4000 range.
I was told that CR2000 means 2 litres per cylinder (actually, I believe they are 2.2 litres per cylinder) - CR4000 means 4 litres per cylinder
CR stands for Common Rail, of course.
MTU also make an 8000!!!
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Elessar
Well-known member
Great pics and info - but are they not V12s?Actually, by MTU, you mean Rolls Royce
I've just dug out my photos from my visit to the MTU Friedrichshafen factory.
This is a 16 cylinder CR2000 - I can't imagine the size of the ones you are having fitted
View attachment 153058
View attachment 153059
Yes, only the V8 (mine) has the twin turbo - all the others have triple turbos.
Anything bigger than yours, would have to be the CR4000 range.
I was told that CR2000 means 2 litres per cylinder (actually, I believe they are 2.2 litres per cylinder) - CR4000 means 4 litres per cylinder
CR stands for Common Rail, of course.
MTU also make an 8000!!!
They look so easy to work on then we bolt them into a boat
Hurricane
Well-known member
Yep - I was about to change that post - you beat me to it.Great pics and info - but are they not V12s?
They look so easy to work on then we bolt them into a boat
Hurricane
Well-known member
Another pic from the Friedrichshafen factory showing the modular build.They look so easy to work on then we bolt them into a boat
And an injector
And mine when we did the valve clearances
