Motorsailing nitwits

[webcraft]

Re: Define your terms

The reason for emphasising lookout was that you need to watch out for other boats behaving inappropriately - eg treating you as a power vessel when you thought they thought you were sailing - or vice versa.

This is where I think the main danger lies in motorsailing with a headsail or unconed in busy waters. Most vessels will treat you as though you are under sail, only becoming irate when they pass you and realise you are 'cheating'. Some however may indeed spot the smoke and treat you as a powered craft. Because the response of other vessels is not entirely predictable, the lack of visibility caused by a large headsail becomes more critical than when genuinely sailing.

Hope that makes sense!

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

BlueMoment.Com
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[vyv_cox]

Re: Define your terms

Where is this boating heaven, where considerate users look to see whether your exhaust is smoking before deciding what type of craft you are? I get cut up all the time, sailing or motoring, by the vast majority, also sailors or motorers, who behave as if they have never heard of Col Regs.

 

[webcraft]

Re: Define your terms

That'll be the Solent then?

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

BlueMoment.Com
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[Guest]

On yer Bike !!!

I have alwys m/s'd with headsail up unless a good reason to furl .....

There is NO rule / recc'd / etc. that says I can't ..... so sorry ....... like it or lump it, I shall not change the habit of a lifetime.

Oh by the way .... are we trying to stir up the when is a yacht a power driven vessel sh--e again ????

I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[Guest]

Balance ???

The other matter that many seem to have forgotten about is balance .....

ALL sail boats, M/S and sleeker jobbies like to have balanced sets .... My M/S likes to have sails .... that is again sailS up and she rides better balanced, all this c--p about sails drawing, set of sails etc. etc. doesn't get to the basics that a) a boat balances better with the designed sails UP, b) apparent wind is altered and even a sail that it is NOT 100% set right will assist, even if not noticed .... c) what a load of ........ anyway !!!!

I'll be in Pub 'afore ye !!!!! My 25ft M/S, sails and 32hp of Perkins !!!! will see to that !!!!

I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[SloopJohnB]

If they've got engine + sails - won't you have to KECHUP (KETCH UP) before you can throw your tomatoes. Sorry!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: Define your terms

>the lack of visibility caused by a large headsail becomes more critical than when genuinely sailing.<

I think you'll find that rule 137.2.v.III requires you to keep a good lookout at all times.

My good lookout is called Algernon.

 

[webcraft]

Re: Define your terms

But this is a thread about nitwits . . . Rule ??? requires a motorsailing cone, and we know we don't get many of them to the pound.

On another point - assuming we want to do it, how do we make the fact that we are motorsailing obvious if we still have the headsail up? The cone will only be seen to windward.

If it's not possible, then does this mean that the regs don't permit motorsailing with the headsail up? Surely not . . .

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

BlueMoment.Com
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[Twister_Ken]

Re: Define your terms

Cones? But do you want them to know you're motorsailing?

Takes me back to my racing days when late getting to the start area you'd charge along at full throttle and everything set, then kill the donk one second before the 5 minute gun. With luck your increased boat speed and app wind would decay slowly enough to at least get you within spitting distance of the start line. Works a treat in light airs.

 

[Peppermint]

When you get the miles in maybe you'll get some manners.

 

[Peppermint]

Nitwits

I wondered where sailors who don't give a toss for the colregs or their fellow sailors hung out. Those that can't be bothered to meet their obligations, who want the freedoms without the responsibilties. Found you!

Anyone who sails on the headsail with the engine running in gear is failing to meet their obligations. Not to hoist a cone in busy waters is crass and lazy.
To deliberately stand on, in congested waters, and to disadvantage boats beating to windward is stupid.

I'm not going to throw fruit at them. I'm going to give them the address here where they'll feel at home.

 

[rex]

Re: Define your terms

Is that the standard col regs or the minty version defining which sails should be hoisted? Perhaps we could all have our own version of the col regs to suit our mood on a particular day.

 

[rex]

If you think you now have sufficient miles in perhaps you should spend some time reading the strange version of the col regs the rest of us use. This may avoid confusion when the rest of us don't meet your version of obligations unknown to us. I think there is plenty of room for everyone to enjoy their own combination of sailing/motoring as long as there are not too many pratts and nitwits inventing their own rules.

 

[Guest]

Re: Nitwits

Which obligations do you have in mind?

Also, did anyone here say that they would not give way to a sailing vessel where required or appropriate while motorsailing whether or not the genny is up?

 

[Twister_Ken]

tee-hee. nm

`

 

[BrendanS]

Now gents!!! Time please... <font color=white> you raggies are such naughty boys. Go spank each other in your own time /forums/images/icons/cool.gif </font color=white>


<font color=white> the invisible man </font color=white>

 

[Peppermint]

Re: Terms Defined

My problem was caused by Jib flying motorists, no mainsail, sailing downwind on starboard, with plenty of revs on. In congested waters. They stood on so the few boats around me all had to give way as did I even though I was also on starboard and leeward boat. Every other boat leaving Cowes on Sunday morning seem to practise this strange method of sailing. Though most where careful to stay out of the way many where not.

As for my weird interpretation of the Col Regs If you can tell me how not flying a cone is a good thing, how being the give way boat and standing on is a good thing well I'll read em again.

 

[duncan]

Re: Define your terms

at the risk of this actualy bringing a positive contribution to understanding (mine I suspect/hope) I cannot understand/accept the statement you make ie<font color=red>To over simplify - if you're close hauled (@ 40 degrees) with in 4 knots of breeze and sailing at 2.5 knots you should be seeing 7.5 knots of apparent wind. Now turn on the engine (dont forget the cone though) with revs for 2 knots (it's only tickover). Now the apparent wind has jumped to 9.5 knots - so your boatspeed might now be nearer 4.5 to 5 knots </font color=red>

If your boat speed through the water (an assumption but lets ignore tide/current for now) is already in excess of 2 knots then putting on the engine with revs for 2 knots can't add to your speed through the water by the same amount. In fact it would slow you down if the in gear revs used were significantly less than the boat speed.
?

 

[qsiv]

Re: Define your terms

I see your point ... I think perhaps I'm biased by having a MaxProp, so the prop will pitch itself such that it will provide drive, even at tickover. I can prove the point (to myself!) from the knowledge that the engine wont give me more than 8 knots by itself, but if there is a breeze that gives me perhaps 6 knots, and I add some engine revs I can readily get 9 knots - more than either wind alone or power alone can give.

I do accept that my original explantion was woefully lacking!

 

[duncan]

Re: Define your terms

regret I don't know the full workings of the maxprop but any form of load related gearing will certainly change the relationship between revs/drive/water speed.
if th boat is doing 3 knots through the water the prop will actually want to revolve at the revolutions appropriate to that speed so the engine won't have to do anywork to get it up to those revs - but unless there is a gearing effect in there somewhere the engine will still actually have to do those revs (and more to add drive)
I absolutely agree with the general premise of your post that by increasing the AW, through the use of the engine, at certain angles of attack, efficency is improved overall.
enjoy a fair wind