Motorsailing nitwits

[Peppermint]

I have to agree with a letter in the Nov YM regarding the newish trend of motorsailing with your headsail up. Sundays passage from Cowes to Southampton was fun enough without trying to work out who was entitled to right of way and who was being stupid. I'm thinking of stocking up with tomatoes or some such item to throw at these pratts

 

[SteveA]

Are we now going to have baot rage as well as car rage? - I thought boating / sailing was for pleasure - I must be missing something!

 

[hlb]

If everyone just passed on the right there would be none of these silly arguements.

Haydn

 

[Guest]

I'm a nitwit. Several people will agree with me at least about that, I am sure.

Is there something wrong with motorsailing with the genoa up?

Apart from anything else, it is a very convenient way of hiding the fact that I couldn't be bothered to hang up a motoring cone.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

Hi
With 37 posts you will soon be involved with Forum rage
all the best Cheers bob t

Bob T

 

[Guest]

I assume the other postees are either

1. Joking
2. Incapable of beating back up Southampton Water - it was fun Mr Peppermint
3. Worse still - stinkies. (I can't do that little smiley thing - but it was a joke - just a bit - honest)

Geoff W

 

[paulrossall]

Re: I\'m with you mate

If I think I can get a bit more speed with all sails up and engine banging away then off I go. When I have loads of time I sail and enjoy the peace and quiet. I'll do what I want when I want and would expect all others to do the same and hope they enjoy themselves as much as I do.

 

[colvic]

I always suck a peppermint to take away a bad taste...bout time I had one.

Phil

 

[LadyInBed]

I'll take the bait.
I thought to motorsail you need to have your forsail up for maximum effect.
Motorsailing with just the main up is just playing at it!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Define your terms

There's motorsailing (sailing with a motor) and there's motoring with sails up.

In one the boat is effectively sailing, and the engine is just pushing her a few degrees closer to the wind. Perfectly valid technique.

Then there's the motorist who is plugging away with everything flapping (and a sailmaker somewhere rubbing his hands in glee) who is a tomato candidate.

 

[webcraft]

Re: Define your terms

If you mean that you shouldn't motorsail with a headsail set, then I think I disagree with you Ken. Motorsailing with both sails up is more efficient provided the sails are drawing.

When beating into a steep head sea in a smallish yacht with a smallish engine, motorsailing with both sails up and drawing well is often the sensible thing to do. Of course, last time I did it we were the only yacht trying to round Ardnamurchan Point in a force 6 and get to Tobermory in time for the pub.

Then again, it does seem a little irresponsible in the Solent, which I understand is a tad more crowded. (Only been through it once in March myself, never saw a soul, can't understand what you're all on about).

In crowded waters, apart from no-one being able to see your motorsailing cone in the unlikely event that you have bothered to hoist it, there's also the slight problem that you can't see anyone else either with the genny up. In these circumstances dropping the headsail would seem to be the sensible thing.

Oh dear, I sound so reasonable - must try to be more controversial . . .

Death to bilge keelers!

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

BlueMoment.Com
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com/>http://www.bluemoment.com/</A>

 

[Guest]

You take care on a long trip like that. It must be very stressfull for you. Perhaps next time you could stop off in The Hamble to break up the trip.

 

[jimi]

Re: Define your terms

I've always found motorsailing with a genoa up up a complete waste of time. If its drawing well then it usually means that the engine is adding little to boat speed. If its not then it really is time to get rid of it before damaging it.

Jim

 

[qsiv]

Re: Define your terms

I dont know about a genny - I dont have anything bigger than 100% blade - but the benefit of using the engine + sails with the apparent wind forward of the beam.

To over simplify - if you're close hauled (@ 40 degrees) with in 4 knots of breeze and sailing at 2.5 knots you should be seeing 7.5 knots of apparent wind. Now turn on the engine (dont forget the cone though) with revs for 2 knots (it's only tickover). Now the apparent wind has jumped to 9.5 knots - so your boatspeed might now be nearer 4.5 to 5 knots. Thats nearly 100% faster than either sail alone or motor alone. In truth the reality is better - greater AW means that sails are likely to stay full more of the time and also leeway will become much less.

Of course I'd rather sail - but having to get me back to the office, and the children back for school - and get back to the marina before the gate closes all mean that the scope to enjoy an idyllic drift home on the last gasp of dying summer evening breeze (uh? You what! Our local forecast now SW 10 by early afternoon) are all too rare. I thoroughly enjoyed my summer race to La Rochelle - but that was without family and the fact that it took 84 hours to do the first 140 miles, and meant ghosting through the Chenal du Four in 50 m vis with 8 knots of tide and 0.75 knots of boatspeed would have had the family pleading for an airlift.

The satisfaction of a complete trip under sail is all too rare - but I'd rather have to motor sail than not use the boat!

 

[zefender]

Re: physics?

I have no qualms about sometimes sailing with headsail, with a bit of help from the engine. If there's not much wind and the sails barely draw, and I'm running a tad late, then one way of making them draw is to increase the apparent wind by turning the engine switch. Granted, you need to keep a close watch ahead. Am I missing something? But then, even if someone is plainly motor(sailing) with all sails flapping, does this actually matter? Why should people be upset by it? Letting the side down?

 

[jimi]

Define your boat

Looks as if its horses for courses! If I'm close hauled then bunging on the engine means the wind moves forward & my foresail is luffing and a waste of space. However I am a cruising boat and do'nt have inner sheet tracks. Perhaps if I could sheet at a narrower angle it might make a difference?Slightly off the wind if I'm mortorsailing anyway I think I prefer the increased visibility without the genoa (140% ovelap).

Jim

 

[jimi]

Re: physics?

I'm not upset at all, just saying that I'd prefer not to wreck my sail!

Jim

 

[qsiv]

Re: Define your boat

I certainly take your point with visibility - I hadnt really been aware of the difference until this boat w/o a genny. Only downside is light airs performance (I use a code Zero to boost that) - the nice feature is that the blade stays up until about 26 knots (and thats outside family comfort zone so doesnt hhappen too much).

The narrow sheeting base means I get useful drive from the sail right up to about 26 deg AWA (although when free sailing I wouldnt point so high).

All in all whatever works best for each boat/skipper has to be the right solution.

 

[webcraft]

Re: Define your terms

I'm not talking about smooth water here - I'm talking about steep, nasty head seas and strong winds. A smaller boat often doesn't have the power under either sail or motor to punch through the seas and keeps getting slowed right down or stopped and having to gather way again. The combined horsepower of sails and engine can often be enough to make the difference between pressing on and choosing another (non upwind) destination. it's not to do with boat speed, it's to do with keeping the boat moving. The extra power of the genoa is needed in these circumstances.

There's certainly no need whatsoever to worry about damaging the genoa provided it is of or reefed to an appropriate size for the conditions - good grief, what sort of engine do you have?

<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue> -

BlueMoment.Com
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[Footpad]

Re: Define your terms

I'm coming in on the side of those who believe it can speed up your passage and help you point a few degrees higher. I was taught that it was a seamanlike tactic especially in tubbier bilge keelers. I don't have a tubby bilge keeler but a fin keeled Fulmar that sails like a witch but I still use the technique occaisionally. As for the need to keep a lookout I don't see how the situation differs from pure sailing? You may not be able to see my cone all the time (it's very dark in my lockers) but you won't miss the plume of smoke/steam from the 20year old Bukh!