MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[vas]

Flybridge rain water drains on our Mystere are located either side of the aft end of the flybridge overhang.

The whole flybridge is slanted slightly towards the stern so it seems to drain naturally with no standing water.

Hope this helps

thanks Pete (was editing my post for around an hour so missed yours )
Not absolutely sure that this is the way it works on mine tbh. Maybe the way it's resting on the hard right now and the fact that they've blocked the side edges of the f/b deck with the wide arch support that keeps water in...

cheers

V.

 

[pete1987]

I'm going to the boat tomorro so I'll take some pics to show you. Mine seems slightly different to the one in your photo, as the fly ridge has a 2" toe rail all the way around so no water can run off over the sides.

I'm going down tomorrow to clean up all the mess and breakages from our rough trip yesterday. Turns out the wood that attaches the flybridge seat to the deck was rotten and all the screw holding it down were pulled out whilst at sea!

Also, if you decide to remove the black vinyl headlining in the saloon, it comes out so easily. If you remove the two upholstered side panels above the windows, the ceiling panels just slide to port an drop out. Very simple but really nice design and finish.

Pete

 

[vas]

I'm going to the boat tomorro so I'll take some pics to show you. Mine seems slightly different to the one in your photo, as the fly ridge has a 2" toe rail all the way around so no water can run off over the sides.

I'm going down tomorrow to clean up all the mess and breakages from our rough trip yesterday. Turns out the wood that attaches the flybridge seat to the deck was rotten and all the screw holding it down were pulled out whilst at sea!

not nice, at least you do have a solid f/b flooring though

Also, if you decide to remove the black vinyl headlining in the saloon, it comes out so easily. If you remove the two upholstered side panels above the windows, the ceiling panels just slide to port an drop out. Very simple but really nice design and finish.

Pete

aha, that's my man!

I noticed this latched thing on the forward cabin BUT after 35+ years, vinyl is sort of stuck together at the edges, so needs some careful work to separate them and then slide. Good to know its slide to port without having to break a couple of strips first

BTW Pete, how do you remove the panel with the flags (you know the slanted one from helm to salon)?

IE, what's the proper line, first remove the two side panels above windows, then start from the vinyl strip to the helm or to aft? Then after all that remove the slanted panel, or the slanted panel can be removed alone without messing with the others? I'm keen on removing it as I have to pull/push various cables to/from the f/b before I start cutting the f/b pod panels

I guess I'll end up removing all of them storing them at home and put them back on in a couple of months time...

I wonder what's going to be original after all that, just the iroco frame and parts of marine ply...

cheers

V.

 

[pete1987]

I'm afraid you need to remove the panels above the windows, but it's only about 5 screws on my boat. Then remove the first few ceiling panels and all will become clear. Aluminium strips are suspended from the ceiling and the vinyl clad panels have hooks holding them up, 3 per panel. Actually you slide them to starboard to release them, port to fasten. I've had all of that to bits so presuming your boat is the same, should be easy.

From what I've seen so far, everything is identicle on the jcl and versilcraft boats right down to the switches, light fittings etc so should be put together the same way. Even the labels on mine are all Italian!

 

[vas]

I'm afraid you need to remove the panels above the windows, but it's only about 5 screws on my boat. Then remove the first few ceiling panels and all will become clear. Aluminium strips are suspended from the ceiling and the vinyl clad panels have hooks holding them up, 3 per panel. Actually you slide them to starboard to release them, port to fasten. I've had all of that to bits so presuming your boat is the same, should be easy.

From what I've seen so far, everything is identicle on the jcl and versilcraft boats right down to the switches, light fittings etc so should be put together the same way. Even the labels on mine are all Italian!

cheers Pete, will give it a try tomorrow and report back!


Now, almost forgot, need the shi1it (OK plumbing) experts advice please (yes JFM, MM, mike, Bart et al it's you )

Assuming the two heads to blackwater tank distance being around 6m and the two heads a metre apart:

1. Do I run one 7m pipe from each to the tank or can I join them together somehow?
2. Do I go 600mm up from the head and then have the natural drop of 3-5% to the tank? Tank top is around 500mm above head base I recon. Does that make sense or will there be mashed shi1it remaining in the upright section? Sorry if it sounds/is daft, but only experience was/is with short runs out through hull fittings and not long runs uphill...
3. jfm on a previous post you insisted on having a flex pipe section in the whole route (getting the stuff into the tank iirc). Now considering that the tank is rigid and well supported, the head is obviously also well supported and the pipe is well secured every 400-450mm is it really necessary to introduce a flex pipe in the setup? TBH I hate flex pipes with a passion so unless I'm missing something I'll avoid them!

Assuming two pipe runs and B layout correct, need to devise a route for these 40mm pipes that actually go through the kids cabin and son wont be exceptionally impressed when (rather if!) he realises that shi1it pipes run over his bed... May have to go 1.2m up and then slope down to avoid having the pipe run in an unmanageable section.


And a set of fresh/sea water Qs to clear things up:

1. any reason against using multilayered pipes (PE-AL-PE, with high density polyethylene outer core) from the pump to the collector under the heads floor? Plan is to have a 22mm run there and 15mm pipes to the showers and taps. These will work with screw on compression fittings. I'll have to replace the pressure sensitive pump with a larger one for 22mm (rather than the 15mm fitted now)
2. I guess not a bad idea having a freshwater tap on the bow, right? (there's one on the aft deck already)
3. how do you setup anchor area sea water supply? Do you have a below w/l pump on a skin fitting on the bilge and you power it up based on when the windlass is on, or what (don't tell me you need an el. switch on the bow for that!)?
4. same applies to the sea water tap on the galley sink (separate tap for that...) Reason I'm asking is that there's no bow sea water supply and the galley sink pipework is slaughtered in the bilges so no idea how it worked originally.

Finally is it a bit (or a lot) OTT to have electrovanes on each below water skin fitting? There seem to be 2X 2.5inch (I think!) ones for the engines, 1 smallish for the genny, 1 for the air-con, 1 for both heads (or do I need one each?) and a final one for the bow/sink/watermaker. The idea is to just close them all together when leaving the boat from the BMS and feeling a bit safer.
Not sure there are IPX or anyway fully watertight electronics on any of them.

hm, a lot of Qs, hope I'm not tiring you lot too much...

cheers

V.

 

[Divemaster1]

V...

In respect to the holding tank ... to me 7M sounds pretty long..... so thinking out of the box so to speak.... what are you fitting between the hull and under the stairway ? Strikes me that you could have a short run for each of the hoses to a reasonably sized tailor made tank underneath here.... not too high lift, vent and drainage back through engine room to existing hull fittings (not identified, but possibly drains from air intakes... ours are...). We use the staircase or storage, but loads of "wasted space" there when you bring it down below deck level....

Just some thoughts for you......

 

[BartW]

Before I forget,

Here are some pics from the blackwater tubes in BA,
These are PE, OD 50mm for each toilet
The central collecting tube is OD 65mm

This is the stuff they used for the recaulking,
They used a air pressure pump to pump it in the seems.

 

[jfm]

Do I run one 7m pipe from each to the tank or can I join them together somehow?

Do I go 600mm up from the head and then have the natural drop of 3-5% to the tank? Tank top is around 500mm above head base I recon. Does that make sense or will there be mashed shi1it remaining in the upright section? Sorry if it sounds/is daft, but only experience was/is with short runs out through hull fittings and not long runs uphill...

jfm on a previous post you insisted on having a flex pipe section in the whole route (getting the stuff into the tank iirc). Now considering that the tank is rigid and well supported, the head is obviously also well supported and the pipe is well secured every 400-450mm is it really necessary to introduce a flex pipe in the setup? TBH I hate flex pipes with a passion so unless I'm missing something I'll avoid them!

IMHO...

Run 2 pipes. Don't join. Then there's no chance of shiiit from toilet 1 squirting up the bum of the person sitting on toilet 2. (Haydn's 1999 thread suddenly comes to mind...) Remember, in a boat the shiiiit is pumped whereas in a house it just travels by gravity

Yup, go 600 or 1200 up then 5%/10% down. You'll want a non return valve on outlet of the pumps in the toilet itself. Most have these nowadays at least. Nearly all sea toilets can handle a swan neck antisyphon loop of 1200mm, and that in effect is what you are doing if you think about it

Gut feel, but my guess would be that the flexing of the boat on big waves etc etc, means that a rigid system will leak at the joints. I would personally put 1 metre flex pipe at each end. But I'm talking gut feel, no data, so cannot be sure. The only sure thing is that it ISN'T rigid; the uncertianty is whether you have movements of max 5mm which might be ok, or say 30mm which aint. I'd put my money on >5mm in a big sea. Get over your hatred of flex pipes in boats!

any reason against using multilayered pipes (PE-AL-PE, with high density polyethylene outer core) from the pump to the collector under the heads floor? Plan is to have a 22mm run there and 15mm pipes to the showers and taps. These will work with screw on compression fittings. I'll have to replace the pressure sensitive pump with a larger one for 22mm (rather than the 15mm fitted now)

I guess not a bad idea having a freshwater tap on the bow, right? (there's one on the aft deck already)

how do you setup anchor area sea water supply? Do you have a below w/l pump on a skin fitting on the bilge and you power it up based on when the windlass is on, or what (don't tell me you need an el. switch on the bow for that!)?

same applies to the sea water tap on the galley sink (separate tap for that...) Reason I'm asking is that there's no bow sea water supply and the galley sink pipework is slaughtered in the bilges so no idea how it worked originally.

1. Sounds fine
2. Yes very handy for washing deck after hauling ground lines. I always spec these, with a curly hose
3. Yes, often exactly that. With a cut out switch on dash if you want, but not necessary. However many folks have indepndent switch so you can wash clods of mud while chain is stationary. Anyway you need big pump becuase you need a real gush of water to clear mud. A trickle is useless
4. Seawater in sink? Yuk! I thank that's a crazy idea. WTF for? Someone will accidentally run it in a marina when a near neighbour has dumped black tank. Then you'll prepare food. Then family will be vomiting and testing your black tank for next 3 days. It's a crazy crazy idea. IMHO

Finally is it a bit (or a lot) OTT to have electrovanes on each below water skin fitting? There seem to be 2X 2.5inch (I think!) ones for the engines, 1 smallish for the genny, 1 for the air-con, 1 for both heads (or do I need one each?) and a final one for the bow/sink/watermaker. The idea is to just close them all together when leaving the boat from the BMS and feeling a bit safer.

Bit crazy becuase if they are not €500 each they are junk. I have them on my black tank system only but wouldn't bother elsewhere. BTW, mine are Vetus and 2 out of 3 failed and I had to have them rebuilt (privately, to make them better than original. The gears stripped)

I'm not tiring you lot too much...

Nah. Still in office mate and glad of le diversion

 

[MystereMarcus]

So, MystereMarcus and Pete if you have any photos of your f/b deck especially halfway (bow to stern) please post as we may spot the draining areas.
V.

V.
Having read Pete's reply I can't really add anything, our FB has a toe rail around it and a drain hole at each side of the aft end. Looking at the picture of the Versilcraft Mystere that jfm posted, it, like yours doesn't have these drains. It seems that with no toe rails water must be assumed to run off the edges.
Re. removing and refitting the wheelhouse roof trim, Pete is spot on in his description, the only thing I would add is refitting the slatted ceiling panels is a two man job - I tried on my own and put my back out!!
I'm sure Pete's photo's will show everything but if my boat is in anyway different I'll also take photos.

Cheers,
Marcus.

 

[LittleShip]

Wooden boats eh !

Just a photo to give some encouragement........

This was how I found Little Ship, with as much (if not more) work to do as you have.

It actually took me near on 3 years to get her sorted. Wood boats when left to the elements will (as you know) try and return to their natural state...... It was a labour of love and to this day I still enjoy working and upgrading her.

Keep up the good work and keep the photos coming !!

Tom

 

[MapisM]

This was how I found Little Ship

Blimey, I wasn't aware that LS resurrected from those conditions.
Utmost respect for a fantastic job of bringing her back as she is now.
From the pics I've seen, I would have never imagined from which point you started!

 

[vas]

I'm afraid you need to remove the panels above the windows, but it's only about 5 screws on my boat. Then remove the first few ceiling panels and all will become clear. Aluminium strips are suspended from the ceiling and the vinyl clad panels have hooks holding them up, 3 per panel. Actually you slide them to starboard to release them, port to fasten. I've had all of that to bits so presuming your boat is the same, should be easy.

Pete,

it's tempting to buy you an easycrap ticket to come down here and time how long and how much swearing you'll need to get the first fcker out! After 35+ years the vinyl as I said is stuck together and I ended up using my trusty right angle thing (btw, how do you call them in EN?) to break the join between them. Took me couple of hours and the first panel is still not out. Hopefully tomorrow though.

@Alf:

that's a great idea, thanks a lot!
Actually I can squeeze almost 200lt down there with no issues (other than more difficult access to the aircon unit so I got to check this out a bit more carefully). Visibility of the iroco beams down there by the keel is imho v.important, but having reasonable access to the bow (under the corridor) means I can stick my head down there and check that everything is okay under the tank. I'll work it out once I complete my suntan and start spending more time inside...

@Bart:

thanks for the photos, unfortunately there are flex sections towards the head in these photos, I may have to accept that I'll have flex shi1it pipes with clips on them...
I'll check if I can get hold of this material, odd though if I'm right it mentions it's selfleveling, what's the point in it???

@Littleship:

respect!
didn't realise that LS was is such a state, always thought she was spotless. You are absolutely right on effort needed, however with some advancements in materials and poly-whatevers IF you do a good preparation, you should be more or less maintenance free for longish periods of time (setting aside clear laquer of which I've got none!).

@MMarcus:

cheers, I'll keep it in mind when I reassemble the ceiling, but as I mentioned above taking it apart is turning out to be a challenge. Will post photos of the end result.

jfm you'll get a separate reply as there are a few points that need discussion/clarification.

Ah, today's work was four hours suntan and another 4 picking up the pieces in the salon (and that's MY pieces after all this heat...) Did a bit of dismantling in the ceiling as it looks like there were leaks over both salon windows whereabout the arch is mounted on top, so need to investigate and sort it out.

Just for fun I decided to time and photo my stbrd above deck paint scraping progress (seem to be improving my technique, or simply arms are getting stronger and hence more efficient)

So first hour was this:

Second this:

(short break) and third hour this:

A couple of hours later I did my fourth hour:

It's evident that 4th hour progress was carp compared to the previous ones due to fatigue but also this largish ligher coloured patch which is area that from the factory fitted some sort of filler in a mastique like substance that's a pig to scrape...
Looks like I'll demolish my 20h port side record, yes I know I'm sad don't need to mention it
Tomorrow is relax, well actually 4 hours teaching and maybe a couple of hours clean work afterwards, back on the boat for a full day on Friday morning.

cheers

V.

 

[Divemaster1]

.........it's tempting to buy you an easycrap ticket to come down here and time how long and how much swearing you'll need to get the first fcker out! After 35+ years the vinyl as I said is stuck together and I ended up using my trusty right angle thing (btw, how do you call them in EN?) to break the join between them. Took me couple of hours and the first panel is still not out. Hopefully tomorrow though.

...... AAAAaaaarrghhh... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is that is the saloon ceiling ???........from the curtain at the back it looks like it...

Remove the vertical panel above the sliding door....

That gives you access to the panels that are sort of tongue and groove wit screws fixed at the back edge of the panels, which are slotted into the one in the front .... Simple and obvious once you have removed the top vertical panel above the sliding door.... (breaking wood noizes is not good). Simply unscrew back toungue and slide back and remove to get access to next panels screws... Had to do this after our Radar Arch came crashing down (different story..).

 

[LittleShip]

@Littleship:

respect!
didn't realise that LS was is such a state, always thought she was spotless. You are absolutely right on effort needed, however with some advancements in materials and poly-whatevers IF you do a good preparation, you should be more or less maintenance free for longish periods of time (setting aside clear laquer of which I've got none!).

cheers

V.

There are many around that will give advice on how to restore your boat.......so here is mine.

Any and all wood that you replace, repair or want to stop water getting into you need to coat with this ..... it's not cheap but you will never have to repair rot there again.

www.mbfg.co.uk/epoxy-resins/eposeal-300-epoxy-primer.html

it will soak into the wood and seal out any water ingress, trust me it is worth the extra cost.

Never, never, never... use polyester on the wood only use Epoxy to glue seal or fill.

Use a good quality exterior paint, I now use International 10year door paint and many think LS is plastic. I wouldn’t consider using any of the hard marine based paints on a wood boat, you need something that will flex.

(setting aside clear laquer of which I've got none!)

I assume you mean varnish........ hmm ! I love varnishing

Keep up the good work

Tom

 

[vas]

There are many around that will give advice on how to restore your boat.......so here is mine.

Any and all wood that you replace, repair or want to stop water getting into you need to coat with this ..... it's not cheap but you will never have to repair rot there again.

www.mbfg.co.uk/epoxy-resins/eposeal-300-epoxy-primer.html

it will soak into the wood and seal out any water ingress, trust me it is worth the extra cost.

apologies Tom,
I was thinking of two pack paint (assuming it's poly-something, maybe wrong as I've not reached that level yet...), yes nothing but epoxy on the wood all around for sealing, filling, strenghtening, glueing. I'm planning to use West systems materials that are not cheap at all (was charged 220euro for a 6lt pack!) still investigating cheaper alternatives, but I think shipping flamable things down here is an issue. Will see...

I guess what you're suggesting is similar. I'm obviously open to ideas and suggestions!

Never, never, never... use polyester on the wood only use Epoxy to glue seal or fill.

Use a good quality exterior paint, I now use International 10year door paint and many think LS is plastic. I wouldn’t consider using any of the hard marine based paints on a wood boat, you need something that will flex.

true, will come back to that paint issue in July as I'm planning to have the boat painted externally when it's standing alone in end of july-august

(setting aside clear laquer of which I've got none!)

I assume you mean varnish........ hmm ! I love varnishing

Keep up the good work

Tom

yes I mean varnish, which I don't really like as I like my wood either painted or with impregnating varnish (yes I know not in boats, talking about houses here...) so that it feels like real wood not something unnaturally shinny.

Thanks for the PM as well,

will have a longish report on the w/e as I'm planning to spend whole day tomorrow and a few hours over the w/e.

Fitted the tarpaulin today replacing the old plastic sheeting that was ripped to pieces from the wind, so I can expect gale force winds tonight and torrential rain...

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

...... AAAAaaaarrghhh... !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is that is the saloon ceiling ???........from the curtain at the back it looks like it...

Remove the vertical panel above the sliding door....

That gives you access to the panels that are sort of tongue and groove wit screws fixed at the back edge of the panels, which are slotted into the one in the front .... Simple and obvious once you have removed the top vertical panel above the sliding door.... (breaking wood noizes is not good). Simply unscrew back toungue and slide back and remove to get access to next panels screws... Had to do this after our Radar Arch came crashing down (different story..).

Alf,

I think yours is different, there isn't a vertical panel above the sliding door to the aft deck

Pete and MMarcus points are close to what I'm facing. Will hopefully manage that tomorrow so will show the latches and system.


cheers

V.

 

[Divemaster1]

Alf,

I think yours is different, there isn't a vertical panel above the sliding door to the aft deck

Pete and MMarcus points are close to what I'm facing. Will hopefully manage that tomorrow so will show the latches and system.


cheers

V.

V.... think that principle still applies... removal is to be back towards front, or front to back.... so expose first set of fasteners and rest is relatively simple....

 

[vas]

sorry just managed to fill up my comments/Qs re shi1it and pipes...

IMHO...

Run 2 pipes. Don't join. Then there's no chance of shiiit from toilet 1 squirting up the bum of the person sitting on toilet 2. (Haydn's 1999 thread suddenly comes to mind...) Remember, in a boat the shiiiit is pumped whereas in a house it just travels by gravity

OK, that's rather clear, wasn't happy with the other option tbh

Yup, go 600 or 1200 up then 5%/10% down. You'll want a non return valve on outlet of the pumps in the toilet itself. Most have these nowadays at least. Nearly all sea toilets can handle a swan neck antisyphon loop of 1200mm, and that in effect is what you are doing if you think about it

jfm, I know that you really loooove SOF and tecma's, but I'm not getting any of the two
So, how does the simple el.sea toilets I have handle swan necks of 500-600mm?

I mean, there's only one button that operates the motor that pumps seawater in the bowl and runs the macerator and pushes mashed shi1it out through the exit. The way I see it, there's always going to be water left in the upright section of the swan neck No? I mean it should pump water then stop and push stuff out for a few secs if I was to have a clear upright pipe.
Am I missing something?

Gut feel, but my guess would be that the flexing of the boat on big waves etc etc, means that a rigid system will leak at the joints. I would personally put 1 metre flex pipe at each end. But I'm talking gut feel, no data, so cannot be sure. The only sure thing is that it ISN'T rigid; the uncertianty is whether you have movements of max 5mm which might be ok, or say 30mm which aint. I'd put my money on >5mm in a big sea. Get over your hatred of flex pipes in boats!

OK, I'm almost persuaded, will see I can ofcourse make sure I use curves and longish sections after them so that they can take the flexing and avoid the flexpipes Anyway, will see, if I end up using the space that Alf suggested, pipe runs will be around 2m only..

2. Yes very handy for washing deck after hauling ground lines. I always spec these, with a curly hose
3. Yes, often exactly that. With a cut out switch on dash if you want, but not necessary. However many folks have indepndent switch so you can wash clods of mud while chain is stationary. Anyway you need big pump becuase you need a real gush of water to clear mud. A trickle is useless

so what gph output are we talking about? I remember seen MM bilge photo on the bow with a fairly massive motor more like 1hp... on a centrifugal (sp?) pump. Can I use the thick windlass supply for this motor as well, I guess not as it will hinder chain speed. So more thickish cables to come 10+m long from the e/r...

further, the curly hose I guess will all be hidden in the bow deck box with the manual lever for my lofrans and other small bits and bobs, right?

4. Seawater in sink? Yuk! I thank that's a crazy idea. WTF for? Someone will accidentally run it in a marina when a near neighbour has dumped black tank. Then you'll prepare food. Then family will be vomiting and testing your black tank for next 3 days. It's a crazy crazy idea. IMHO

relax mate, I assume that's why there's a single extra tap on the left hand side of the sink, the mix tab is on the right. I also have no clue what were they thinking back in 75, so I was hoping you'd enlighten me. This tap is excellent for my RO drinking water, so I'll use it for that, np.

re electrovalves:

Bit crazy becuase if they are not €500 each they are junk. I have them on my black tank system only but wouldn't bother elsewhere. BTW, mine are Vetus and 2 out of 3 failed and I had to have them rebuilt (privately, to make them better than original. The gears stripped)

very clearly idea discarded! not paying that money for electrovalves, I can easily move my arse down there and close them and eat that money in chocolates, diet coke, wine and diesel

Nah. Still in office mate and glad of le diversion

that's how you can make all the time for the extended w/e in SOF then?


Ah, I made an interesting discovery yesterday. Many months ago, I posted a pic of an odd looking screw/pot thing on the lower helm. Noone had a clue what it is. So after removing various ceiling/side lining panels I found a 5-6mm copper pipe routed from this thing going up and to the front windscreens. So it's a manual windscreen washer thingy!
Amazed!
Wonder if I should bother connecting it or not, Pete what do you think?


cheers

V.

 

[vas]

weather was awful has been for a few days with sun and rain, hot and unpredictable, so not so much progress as I'd planned to.

Did manage a few more hours on the stbrd side totalling 13h todate!

So, 5th H:

6th H:

7th H:

8th H (nasty working for an hour on my knees...):

9th H:

and a detail not great progress as ply was a bit too wet and slightly softer from the early morning rain so difficult to scrape. Once cleaned and left to dry, it's solid again and feels strong:

10th H:

11th H (attacking the window frame for the next two hours, note the black original colour on the plane where the frame sits (will defo do it like that, but maybe introduce a third mid tone of grey or something):

12th H:

13th H (again working on my knees reasonable progress going towards the bow):

Plan is to finish this side and the sunpad that has some horrible wooden strips and by the w/e do the two spot repairs and get 1-2 coats of epoxy on top (saves water coming in from some holes/screwheads etc that I uncovered whilst scraping.
Didn't have time or strength to work on removing the salon lining will see when I can.

l8r

V.

 

[capsco]

Did you buy this project to practice on ready for the next big job