MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[MystereMarcus]

No Idea!

Sorry V. my Mystere doesn't have the mini arch in the rail. Obviously handy for raising burgee's / courtesy flags. I can't think of why there would be a light there. Mine has the Stern light on the base of the rail in a similar position to yours, the only other unusual light I have is a red flashing light and siren on the radar arch that is wired into the various engine alarms, so if you are in the FB and the strainers are blocked you know about it! Sorry I can't be more help. Have you traced the wires back to see where they are connected to.

Marcus.

 

[BartW]

There's also one pair of cables that goes to the top edge of this inverted V shaped piece of railing. Anyone care to suggest what that stands for? Cannot possibly be the anchor light (too low imho!)

the radar arch was a retrofitted ?
then this could have been the wires for the toplight ?

if not, maybe a spotlight for the platform / lightning behind the boat

good sugestion from Marcus,
try to find where the wires go to, or have been going to

 

[vas]

Sorry V. my Mystere doesn't have the mini arch in the rail. Obviously handy for raising burgee's / courtesy flags. I can't think of why there would be a light there. Mine has the Stern light on the base of the rail in a similar position to yours, the only other unusual light I have is a red flashing light and siren on the radar arch that is wired into the various engine alarms, so if you are in the FB and the strainers are blocked you know about it! Sorry I can't be more help. Have you traced the wires back to see where they are connected to.

Marcus.

the radar arch was a retrofitted ?
then this could have been the wires for the toplight ?

if not, maybe a spotlight for the platform / lightning behind the boat

spend 7h working today, hell of a job blazing sun and 35C outside, 42C inside in the helm area (where unfortunately the cabling I was tracing live...)

right, as Bart notes, arch is a later addition, although I tought all Mystere's came with the narrow arch like the one in Pete's Mystere and the other plywood one i've seen in Athens + the Antibes one. Now, doesn't look like mine had ANYTHING, as there's no tell tale marks in the plywood ceiling of the salon, so looks like it was indeed the anchor light (v.low, hence the second anchor light on the tip of the bow on the railing!)

Realised there is a colour coding in my Mystere (Pete/Marcus note it, could be usefull in avoiding removing lots of upholstery...), with light blue cables carrying positive for nav and security things, dark blue for lights/sockets/etc, black for all the negatives.
Counted and traced 4 light blue cables coming to the helm area (and in particular the navlights switch panel) from the salon, 2 for the red/green nav light, 1 for the stern light and the fourth for this anchor light.

Just removed it from there, and brought it back to the salon where the new arch will be mounted so that they can follow and go up as the should. Job done for now!

Bart, there was NO bathing platform on the Mystere originally
hence no light for it. However, I'm counting one extra light line for platform lighting. Not sure I could persuade myself I really need u/w lights...


LJS, regarding seacocks and SS, I understand and fully agree, however it turns out quite difficult to find REALY DRZ fittings down here. Maybe I'll have to mail order them from up north, any pointers?


trying to recover...

cheers

V.

 

[pete1987]

The radar arched on mine and Marcus's mystere's seem standard on the GRP versions but they vary more on th versilcraft boats.

Saw a nice one in Germany with a backwards slanted full width arch which looked good. Advantage of mine is that it easily folds flat on the deck which we need for bridges, however it is positioned right in the middle of the flybridge so it obscures any type of Bimini cover that could be fitted.

If I were you, I would try and redesign your arch so it fits in a similar position as the old one, allowing you to pull a Bimini frame forwards from the radar arch. Neat, tidy and complimenting the boats lines.

 

[vas]

Pete,

been working on the new f/b arch design for a few days now since removing the old one.
You're spot on the layout, although I'm thinking of something slightly more radical and making a fixed hardtop on the aft section and a sliding (under/within it) section to the front.

The only bridge (no rivers and inland waterways in Greece) I'll have to ever negotiate has a clearence of just over a metre, so a folding arch is of no use

First sketches follow. Main concern is that since the sidewalls coming from the salon are slanted a fair amount, if I follow the same design (which I really should!) are going to end up restricting the f/b. So planning (as per the first sketch) to pull the "vertical"/pillar sections outwards by creating a small "step", and avoid a v.narrow f/b. Need to do a few 3/4 view sketches to feel the space a bit more. That's clearly shown on first sketch
Plan is to use marine ply (or better alloy sheeting/maybe sandwitched for strength) for the pilars, and an alloy frame/alucobond skin for the flat bit.
Sliding front section could be frame and cloth skin, but we'll see.

Not extremely happy atm as it looks OK on side elevation but not sorted read and quarter views yet, so just posting the sketches up for ideas/feedback.

cheers

V.

 

[vas]

hello all,

yet again a long overdue update and I'm afraid the main reason for my slow progress is the fcking hot weather (yeah, considering that you lot up north complain about the weather, I'm following suit...). Started employing a new system, wake up at 5:30am and work from 6:00 to 10:00, not much luck working outside afterwards (and to make matters worse, helm reaches 40C by 13:00...)

Working on the sundeck, port side done in less than 10h. Employed a slightly modified technique where I don't heat/scrape to bare ply, but only quickly strip the top coats leaving the primer on and using the orbital sander with 40grit to clean the rest. Much much quicker, not stressing my aching wrist at all but definitely messier!

On the automation front, system is up and running, GSM receiving sending messages, two radars installed, testing the aft deck one as it seems to be rather wide beam so it "catches" activity on the neighbouring boats (I think!)
Need to clear up some more mess on the main el.board, and pass 24V cables to the BMS board for distribution to the lights/switches/et al

Security wise (not a problem really...) I'm ready to start removing side windows and priming ply with west systems epoxy. If only the weather was a bit cooler

Different ideas on the f/b arch/hardtop. I'm afraid on the added weight up top and I've noticed that practically no f/b craft has a hardtopish arch assembly so I'm getting a bit worried and want to do a careful weight calculation before I start finalizing the design. More later

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Can I part exchange some wet 16C weather for some of your sun and heat please?

 

[Swordfish]

Hello V,

Keep up the good work, I'm sure many of us would like to swap weather with you.

I have been meaning to post some info but always seem to be short of time.

Re your finishing plans to the external wood of your boat, I seem to remember reading some pages back mention of having to use epoxy resin on the wood, not polyester resin.

Many years ago the system of bonding polyester resin / glass to plywood was explained to me by a boat designer, as the method he wanted me to use manufacture his boats. The principal is as follows: Apparantly certain resins, oils and bonding adhesives present in plywood and some solid wood can actually neutralise the chemical set process. As you will know this set process uses the addition of the " catalyst " ( a type of organic peroxide I believe ) but this set process only happens because most polyester resins for boat building are " pre acclerated ". This accelerator is the other component that generates the actual set. What I was told to do by the designer, was to paint a coat of the neat accelerator on all the wood before application of any polyester resin. This additional quantity of accelerator stops the neutralising effect of the wood, and gives a very strong bond to the wood. Be very careful, the accelerator and the catalyst must never be mixed directly together, they will explode.

Please forgive my rather basic explaination of this, I am not a chemist. I have certainly found over many years that this process does work.

As I think you already know, there is a very big cost advantage in using polyester resin, plus availability and ease of use.

I'm happy to answer any questions if you have any, Regards, Paul

 

[vas]

Can I part exchange some wet 16C weather for some of your sun and heat please?

I'm afraid not atm rafiki, Don't mind cool/cold weather, but don't want wet at all right now. Can do this deal in a months time if you wish (sincerely hope it's not going to be carp throughout the summer for you guys!)

Many years ago the system of bonding polyester resin / glass to plywood was explained to me by a boat designer, as the method he wanted me to use manufacture his boats. The principal is as follows: Apparantly certain resins, oils and bonding adhesives present in plywood and some solid wood can actually neutralise the chemical set process. As you will know this set process uses the addition of the " catalyst " ( a type of organic peroxide I believe ) but this set process only happens because most polyester resins for boat building are " pre acclerated ". This accelerator is the other component that generates the actual set. What I was told to do by the designer, was to paint a coat of the neat accelerator on all the wood before application of any polyester resin. This additional quantity of accelerator stops the neutralising effect of the wood, and gives a very strong bond to the wood. Be very careful, the accelerator and the catalyst must never be mixed directly together, they will explode.

Please forgive my rather basic explaination of this, I am not a chemist. I have certainly found over many years that this process does work.

I'm happy to answer any questions if you have any, Regards, Paul

thanks for the info Paul, I have to admit that I've dismissed without studying too well the polyesters, provisional (still standing !) idea is to use west systems epoxy in many thin coats to seal, strengthen and prepare the surface for paint. More or less moving along what some friends here have done on timber boats and BurgundyBen also in here.

I don't like WestSystems price for sure (I estimate over two grand worth of epoxy for MiToS and I may be v. conservative in that...) but I definitely don't want to get into the glass cloth and grp like process that I've seen done often. I'm not convinced it works well on 35yo ply freshly stripped of 2 primers and 6-7coats of paint (obviously stand to be corrected).
I'll have a careful read on what you suggest although I'd like to understand how strong these polyester resins are compared to west epoxy. Definitely don't want to lay cloth on anywhere, was considering that for the sumberged part of the hull (well, effectively the whole of it...) but I'm told that success of this process is too limited with cloth shagging and not bonding well onto the ply. Maybe the system you suggest can beat gravity, but I'd rather not find it out the hard way.

Overall, I want to do something that's going to last a decade with no need to get into paint stripping within that period (at that time I'll be in my late fifties and not sure I'd want all this exercise again, surely will be good for the body!)
Above the deck, I'm v.close to be ready for sealing holes and making a few small patches needed so need to finilise the method to use (although having 6lt of west epoxy already at hand is a big step)

Would like some pointers on how this process is done, what finishing you can have, effort involved, liability to cracking etc if it is possible plz. I'm still up to my neck with real work so not putting the hours I want into the project and I'm slightly worried that I'll have to rush the painting at the end of August early September.

cheers

V.

 

[rafiki_]

Apologies for the Fred Drift V, but it is Friday evening, on the way home from London, and half expecting my village to be under water as it was 5 years ago. It is astonishing the ammount of rain we have had since Easter.

If only Greece had the Drachma back, with the associated ex rate with £, and I could imagine Rafiki moored in Crete or Corfu!

 

[vas]

Apologies for the Fred Drift V, but it is Friday evening, on the way home from London, and half expecting my village to be under water as it was 5 years ago. It is astonishing the ammount of rain we have had since Easter.

If only Greece had the Drachma back, with the associated ex rate with £, and I could imagine Rafiki moored in Crete or Corfu!

survive, or flooded? Hope everything was ok at the end. Mind you, you're all talking about how awful the weather's been and watching Silverstone today not a single drop to further liven up the action! Looked like typical brit summer weather to me...

When we're back with the NewDrachma (imho it's not an if, it's only when) then yes, you should come down, but Crete
Don't get me wrong I like Crete I once explained to some colleagues, that I'm half Cretean and half Lesbian (dear mum was born and brought up in Lesbos island...) so I love both islands. But where are you going to be based in Crete? North is really carp with all the tourists and so, south, not anywhere to go except along the coast (v.beautiful though)

So if I were you, I'd go for Ionian, or cyclades or even eastern isles Samos, Kos, Chios, etc. Of course you'd be welcomed to Volos, nice areas in the 50m range to visit again and again

Anyway, back to the project, only managed 3-4h work at the begining of the week and since it's going to be another 3-4days before I can continue, I thought I'll give a small update and ask a Q or two

start with an dusk shot with sun setting behind the hills:

removing the last few wooden strips from the sundeck

heatgun and scrapper removed the 6-7 top coats leaving the primer (or not even that at spots...)

Ready for an hour's work with the orbital sander 40grit (the rubbish bag contains all the paint stripped from the sundeck )

Question time, there is this clock above the lower helm seat. It's a VDO in reasonable nick (nothing a polish wont fix outside) but with flaking paint on the lower part of the black plate. Now, I'd like to keep it, I may just keep it like that (it's not that bad tbh). My question is what's the reason for the blue and red bands + it looks like it has a toothed wheel on the lefthand side that is moving an extra hand, like an alarm. Is it to arrange turns at the helm over difficult conditions or overnight? Just curious.

cheers

V.

 

[Swordfish]

your continuing work

Hi V,

I think Silverstone was just very lucky to miss the rain today. I like your comment re the " New Drachma " myself and I am sure many others would love to keep our boats over there.

We have visited Crete many times, love the Island, but not for boating, further north would be much better. As for your origin, " half Cretean half Les........., well Yassoo Nafti.

Anyway, back to the serious stuff, protection / paint finish to your boat. The method I suggested using polyester resin does assume that the necessary reinforcement material is used ie. glass fibre, either in the form or tissue or fine woven roving. I have not used the West System, but I have seen the cost listed, is it realy so different to justify the cost. I am going to a supplier tomorrow, they are actually distributors of the west system, so I will ask some questions.

The particular method I described using the additional " accelerator " I have used on various occasions for many years, most boats built of GRP, all have various types of wooden additions, transom stiffening, engine bearers, bulkheads etc. bonded into the hull with I am sure, the same " lay up " resin, ie polyester.

Can you try a " test area " to assess strength, adhesion etc.

I'm bringing whole family to Kos in September, for my daughter to get married. I little too far away visit and view your progress, perhaps better not buy Euros yet !!

Regards, Paul

 

[rafiki_]

V, many thanks for your thoughts. Yes, the village escaped this time, unlike 5 yrs ago when many were flooded. Rafiki is moored on the R Severn, and that is currently 12 feet above normal levels, so she is captured in the marina at the moment, as there is no clearance uder the bridges. In any case, there is so much rubbish flowing in the swollen river, not to mention the odd abandoned barge, that it would be silly to venture out at the moment.

Yes the GP was dry. I was quite disappointed, as my selections in the Planet F1 Fantasy League gambled on a wet/dry race. We did have a deluge at home, just after the race finished, and as we are about 50 km from silverstone, I guess many drivers had a slippery escape from the grass carparks.

I last visited Crete in 1981, and had a fantastic time. Based at Ag Nich, with a Honda 50 for transport my wife and I (then fiancee) found many secluded beaches which in my distant memory would have made great anchorages.

However, I guess a huge ammount has changed in the last 30 or so years, and I would probably not recognise the place!

 

[burgundyben]

That clock face is fascinating.

Maybe its times for changing watch? 12, 3, 6 and 9?

Or keeping the log?

 

[wakeup]

Could it be a basic tide clock where the red hand takes 12.25 hours to process between the two red sections with the blue section representing high tide and red low?

Or perhaps an old navy clock , red is when you down rumm and blue is when you lash the ratings

 

[vas]

hello all,

small update since weather was cooler today managed to do some work.
First of all, my Einhel orbit sander died (well, happy to rev it's head of on air, dies or just about turns when it touches something, not good is it?)
So time for another one and sending this off for repair under warranty...
Follows my einhel heat gun that died two weeks ago. Maybe I should change brand of tools

Tried to remove the port engine intake/filter mess and was shocked to find that the rubber hose from the strainer to the engine pump was JUUUUST holding on. FFS, overlap with strainer outlet was less than 10mm
and the whole outlet snapped a minute later
just lovely...

Interesting find is that engine intake is 1.5inch and not 2.0inch.
That means i'm now looking for a 1.5inch setup (easier and cheaper to find)

Still I think I'll stick to the below waterline setup for the strainers having all bolted safely together and avoiding a massive flex pipe from the seacock to the strainer.

Needless to say that didn't have much luck undoing the components and it looks it's going to be anglegrinder job to remove the lot, then massive vice lots of heat to undo them (not that I need to do it as I wont be reusing them)

Yesterday (officially the hottest day of the summer so far with 42C or so) I went to the craft at 5pm for a check and to do a couple of things.
BMS digital thermometre was showing 49C and after an hour there dropped to 47C (stupidly forgoten the keys so couldn't open the door for some extra ventilation) I can tell you it was like an oven.
To compensate was in the beach till 10:30pm (in the water that was too warm, no wind nothing...)

Today it's much better with some N winds cooling us a bit.

Last week in Athens found a guy that can re-chrome/nickelplate my 20 light fittings. They are apparently copper (not tin) so plating is going to work nicely on them and for 8euro a piece I'm going to have brand new lights. So today I removed/dismantled all the rest of the fittings to take them to Athens tomorrow.

more tomorrow

V.

 

[rafiki_]

V, I use a Ryobi sander, which works really well. I've not heard of Einhel.

Good news on the plating,should look good.

I'm in Detroit this week, 42C today. I'm loving it. Could not be much further from the sea, and very busy at work, but after the weather we have had this year in the UK, this is paradise. Mind you, all the local septics are complaining!

 

[vas]

longish update

first the bling:

spend 190euro on re-nickelplating 20light fixtures, 15odd toggle switch bessels and the windlass locking nut (don't ask!) Money very well spent (and I generally don't like shinny things)

from this:

to this:

now working on fitting 200lumens hi-power leds I bought from the friend that does the BMS system I'm using. He originally uses them on a ball shaped fixture with a custom heat dissipation thing (shown on the right) I'll use a U shaped 2mm alloy sheet (unbend shown on the bottom of the pic) bolted onto the light fixture. This should work nicely keeping the leds cool and working for the forseeable future...

Now, on the deck/paint stripping et al front I made a test section on the port bow side of the deck. The layup is as follows:

• 12mm plywood (in three layers) fully delaminated in most places due to soaking loads of rainwater
• 2mm GRP layed on top of the plywood (wasn't expecting this tbh!)
• 9mm teak, the full monty with grooves and black silicone (I assume it was originally around 12mm as screws are now showing)
• 9mm marine ply (bolted on by previous owner)
• linoleum based cover (complete with fake black silicone strips)

Looks like this:

after removing the linoleum and ply:

a section through the ply+teak:

a detail through the delaminated ply:

Ordering 15mm marine ply and wish me decent weather (overcast like it was at times today) in order to do this job over the next week or so.
Thinking of carefully removing teak and see if I can salvage any for my deck. Should only need 6-7mm so planning the 9+mm should be possible, we shall see...

cheers

V.

 

[burgundyben]

Deck - you're going to rip the entire lot off back to the beams and shelf right?

 

[rbcoomer]

Hi V,

Great to see more progress - that deck resembles what my floor looked like in terms of layers! Why oh why do people cover up problems rather than sorting them out? On the plus side, your fuel burn will probably drop now that you're not carrying so much water and wood around...

The chromework looks great!

How's the flybridge redesign going?

Regards,

Robin