MiToS re-built/fit- versilcraft Mystery43

[MapisM]

the first 150mm or more is NOT usable as a platfom (unless you're a midget...)
So I'm pushing the platform aft, not joining it to the transom....

Doh! I'm still on the same connection as yesterday night, but this morning I can see your pics.
Maybe your server was temporarily unavailable.

I don't dislike your "bumper style" platform, but I still think it isn't worth the hassle.
Your design makes sense, and is rather clean on paper, but I suspect that building it properly would be rather expensive and complicated.

Besides, even if I agree that you will never use the first 150mm or so of the platform, I would not want to leave that gap.
The platform is a popular place in summertime, particularly for children, if you'll have any onboard. And that gap can be a trap for them: one could either purposedly or by accident put a leg inside it, and if another one would give him a good push in that moment, the unpleasant noise of broken bones could spoil your day.

Sorry to sound as a scaremonger, but I've heard too many horror stories about boat equipment which turns into dangers in some circumstances...

 

[BartW]

I don't dislike your "bumper style" platform, but I still think it isn't worth the hassle.
Your design makes sense, and is rather clean on paper, but I suspect that building it properly would be rather expensive and complicated.

all agreed

 

[MystereMarcus]

I'd like to see Alf and Pete's/MarcusM aft deck layout

I've been away for a couple of weeks and only just caught up with the thread. My cockpit has no seating , I believe this is because the engines are on V drives and located beneath the cockpit. The floor panels can then be easily lifted for maintenance. Here are a couple of photos I took this lunchtime, please excuse the boat in desperate need of a good clean!

The original JCL Mysteres with engines located under the wheelhouse had a bench seat along the transom, Pete may be along with a photo of his but it can also be seen on this one which is currently for sale:

http://www.boatshop24.com/en/motor-boats/jcl-marine-mystere-43-3162928

A photo of my bathing platform may also be of use, the length of it measured from the transom is 900mm at the ends and 700mm in the centre (curvature of the transom causing this).

Hope this helps.

 

[pete1987]

Pic of bathing platform......contrary to other opinion so far I think you need a bigger platform!

The picture doesn't show it that well but the small platform and transom angle means that when stood on the platform your shoulders are touching the gunwale. Quite tricky when wrestling the outboard over the transom.

If I had the funds and the time I would consider changing this for something longer and also wider for berthing alonside floating pontoons.

 

[pete1987]

Also is a pic of the decks. Ours were teak once, but have been covered with some sort of plastic board, then painted with Interdeck anti-slip deck paint.

It's cheap, but it nothing like as nice to look at as real teak. The seams also crack over time and with such a large foredeck area it really spoils the look IMHO.

 

[vas]

Doh! I'm still on the same connection as yesterday night, but this morning I can see your pics.
Maybe your server was temporarily unavailable.

checked today in the office, the evening that you and jfm stated that pics weren't working was indeed a uni issue (torrential rain, power shortage for an hour or so...)

I don't dislike your "bumper style" platform, but I still think it isn't worth the hassle.
Your design makes sense, and is rather clean on paper, but I suspect that building it properly would be rather expensive and complicated.

don't you say that cause you'll get me more intrigued to make it work
3-4mm ss plate, plasma cut and bent. Inserting reinforcements in the transom seems to be the most difficult bit.

Besides, even if I agree that you will never use the first 150mm or so of the platform, I would not want to leave that gap.
The platform is a popular place in summertime, particularly for children, if you'll have any onboard. And that gap can be a trap for them: one could either purposedly or by accident put a leg inside it, and if another one would give him a good push in that moment, the unpleasant noise of broken bones could spoil your day.

Sorry to sound as a scaremonger, but I've heard too many horror stories about boat equipment which turns into dangers in some circumstances...

MMS (for MapisMScaremonger), I have to admit I've not thought of that, but I got a solution for that (will do a proper sketch by the w/e with acurate dimensioning)

Closing, as Pete says, the bathing platform is too small and too useless. With 3-4 kids (not even teens yet...) they'll be mainly based in the platform.
The grown ups will most likely be up in the f/b to avoid the headache. So since the boat will be mainly used for fooling around 30+C and warm waters I think I should give them the best I can

Regarding backing at WOT to a concrete platform I was obviously joking, but with min speed on gear 5kn and dodgy cabling to both helm positions (worse up on the f/b) I can imagine minor hairy moments occuring...

V.

 

[vas]

there as some progress over the last few days up on the f/b.
Working on port side and after 16h (in three sessions) I'm here:

Note that in the second pic above, you can spot black paint on the section above the window frame. This was indeed the original painting scheme for some recessed and related to glass panels
Also in the same pic you can get an idea of the sealing section surrounding the windows/windscreen etc ss frame. Haven't dared remove it yet and not particularly happy to do so unless I have a clear plan for replacement and am happy that it's going to work... It's around 5-6mm in dia, and wedged/fit between ply and ss frame. Did try to clean a section but 5 coats of paint plus various primers are too much to handle. Any idea how it works? (noticed that the grp mystere's don't have it).

Unfortunately progress is much slower than the central horizontal sections I did previously as for some reason the horizontal bits were sometime in the past scrapped to plain ply and then primed with carmin and had 2 coats of white paint. So scrapping was a matter of heating abit, scrapping the 2 coats in one quick go, let it cool and later on use the orbital sander and clean everything with a 60grit paper.

However on the side I counted 5 coats of paint
Original colour was a bright 70ies RED, followed by an electric blue and 3 coats of white...
The whole thing (which was over a mil thick!) needed good heating and scrapping the 5 coats typically was a two pass job. Further, the 70ies primer was a good one even after 37years was really strong and needed a second heating round and careful scrapping using a lot of force.
Only good thing is that following this time consuming process you barely need a quick pass with the orbital sander to have a surface ready for sealing.

Notice a fine detail on the connection of the f/b arch...

Looks like they used polyester filler to smooth the gap left after the dodgy support framework that is secured with these massive coach bolts (thanks Swordfish ). All mild steel, lots of surface rust everywhere around them.
Looks like it's an arch off job next week, checking the badly detailed way it's secured in place and think about the whole construction. Mind, it's also leaking from the sbrd support in the salon. It's where the cables come in the craft leading to the helm.

Ideally it should be time for a new f/b hood or bimini as you lot call it construction out of ss with a non-foldable frame going forward to cover the helm and a wee bit aft. Further such a job should incorporate a smallish/light crane thing to help me lift the 30odd kilo snark sailing dinghy up and store it at the rear end of the f/b just over the railings. Thing is I dare not think the cost of a ss construction of this size. I could opt for a spaceframe construction that will use much less steel (but more connections...) but I'm not sure it will aesthetically match the overall design.

that's how the mild steel arch looks right now:

Summarising, looks like it's a 20h job each side from bowdeck to flybridge.
So another 20h for stbrd side and a day or two to do the sundeck and I'm ready for repairing/sealing/priming the ply above deck level.

In order to get an idea of progress speed on the actual hull I also spent 2h underneath towards the stern. I managed an area 0.6X1.0m within the time. Not enjoyable though as heating the a/f (wherever there is...) is rather smelly and I bought a good quality organic filter mask for it but I feel I need to get googles and maybe even a full body suit thing. Problem seems to be that since I'm working with the gun pointing upwards, small bits of a/f and paint find their way in the gun, burn and send small bits all over
There only seem to be a couple of coats under the a/f and the usual carmin underneath. Surprisingly the ply is really solid. There are a few nails that are visible (although they're recessed and some type of filler that's falling apart is in place) but no rusty ones or anything odd. Timber beams are also v.solid with no softspots anywhere to be seen.

Plan is to work upstairs before the sun is unbearably hot, move under the hull mid-day (where it's always cool ) go up to the f/b in the evening again.

l8r

V.

 

[rafiki_]

V, have you tried the white paper all-in-one overall? These are used by car painters, and are really lightweight, so would work over shorts/trunks. Being light they are not too hot to wear either, but give adequate protection from detritus.

 

[burgundyben]

I would say that in order to do a proper long lasting job of the paint those windows all need to come out, you need to ensure that you have continuity of paint right under the frame and over the edge of the ply, otherwise it won't last.

I'd be using epoxy resin with silica on the screws and bolts etc, then coating the entire surface with something like eposeal or resoltech. then 2 pack epoxy primer, then 2 pack polyurethane paint, it'll be good for ten years then.

Big job these old plywood boats!

 

[RobWales]

Bit bigger that yours V but looks very nice hey?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/65ft-Ital...2160744?pt=UK_Power_Boats&hash=item19d1178068

 

[Swordfish]

Hello V,

I have been following your great refurbishment thread with interest. I realy admire your courage to take on such a job, perhaps you do have the advantave of better weather than we have here in the UK.

The bolts you refer to as " cartscrews " do they have a dome head with a square base, if so we call them coach bolts. You should not worry about slight mistakes like bolt names when you command of English is so very good.

A colegue at work has also shown interest in your work because he recognises where your boat is, as he used to live nearby, and then on one of the nearby Islands.

Please keep posting your news and photos,

Regards, Paul

 

[vas]

V, have you tried the white paper all-in-one overall? These are used by car painters, and are really lightweight, so would work over shorts/trunks. Being light they are not too hot to wear either, but give adequate protection from detritus.

not tried them yet as I'm still trying to source a few of them here in Volos. Today I used an angle grinder (small one with 125mm scratch ons, 40grit) and progress was much better but amazingly messy that a hat, mask and goggles wont cut it. So going to the shops tomorrow for that

I would say that in order to do a proper long lasting job of the paint those windows all need to come out, you need to ensure that you have continuity of paint right under the frame and over the edge of the ply, otherwise it won't last.

I'd be using epoxy resin with silica on the screws and bolts etc, then coating the entire surface with something like eposeal or resoltech. then 2 pack epoxy primer, then 2 pack polyurethane paint, it'll be good for ten years then.

Big job these old plywood boats!

says the man that is going for another wooden boat

Thanks BB you're talking very sensibly as this is the right way of doing it ')
I'll have a go at removing one window once I finish the sanding/scrapping above deck level. Measured that side helm windows have 18 nice big bolts on the internal frame, hopefully wont be too difficult and too messy to remove them and epoxy treat together with the rest of the plys.

Bit bigger that yours V but looks very nice hey?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/65ft-Ital...2160744?pt=UK_Power_Boats&hash=item19d1178068

looks lovely, but it's plain TOO MASSIVE for my diy time, I should take a few years off work to get her right. Some detailing are identical to mine and I'm afraid some of the water ingress related damage will be also similar (but larger...)

Hello V,

I have been following your great refurbishment thread with interest. I realy admire your courage to take on such a job, perhaps you do have the advantave of better weather than we have here in the UK.

The bolts you refer to as " cartscrews " do they have a dome head with a square base, if so we call them coach bolts. You should not worry about slight mistakes like bolt names when you command of English is so very good.

A colegue at work has also shown interest in your work because he recognises where your boat is, as he used to live nearby, and then on one of the nearby Islands.

Please keep posting your news and photos,

Regards, Paul

thanks for the kind words, yes that's exactly how these bolts look like, so they are coach bolts then! Yep boat is currently overlooking the main port where all the ships going to Skiathos, Skopelos and Alonissos are docking.

Some progress to be reported once kids go to bed later on tonight

cheers

V.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Hmm Alonisos, spent 2 very happy weeks there 30 years ago, no doubly it's very different now!

V I still admire your patience and determination, if there's anything I can do to help with your fantastic restoration project then let me know. Would love to see your boat once it's finished!

 

[Divemaster1]

...........I'll have a go at removing one window once I finish the sanding/scrapping above deck level. Measured that side helm windows have 18 nice big bolts on the internal frame, hopefully wont be too difficult and too messy to remove them and epoxy treat together with the rest of the plys.....

If the window frames are anything like ours, the bolts go through to the outer frame and fixes to that. Easy to remove as inner frame overlays outer and tightening bolts pulls the two pieces together. small piece of tape on outer frame when bolts are removed, secures the uter frame with the glass, whilst inner frame is removed..... Good luck !!

 

[vas]

Hmm Alonisos, spent 2 very happy weeks there 30 years ago, no doubly it's very different now!

V I still admire your patience and determination, if there's anything I can do to help with your fantastic restoration project then let me know. Would love to see your boat once it's finished!

Alonisos is meant to be the most tranquil of the three, furthest away from Volos and the civilisation of the mass tourism, so even now looks interesting. I'm saying so although I've not been to any of the three isles over the last 10+ years I'm living in Volos.

Have to say that MiToS is not the largest and more demanding challenge I've had todate, the prize goes to managing 21yrs with dearest wife
It is a bigish project though and the fact that I want to dyi the lot creates a few problems. Should be OK at the end I guess

If the window frames are anything like ours, the bolts go through to the outer frame and fixes to that. Easy to remove as inner frame overlays outer and tightening bolts pulls the two pieces together. small piece of tape on outer frame when bolts are removed, secures the uter frame with the glass, whilst inner frame is removed..... Good luck !!

yes Alf, that's exactly how they look like. I also have a feeling that the side helm windows with the diagonal frame member that is also the pivot for the opening window do add to the structural integrity of the helm roof, so I'll make sure I don't step on the roof once these windows are removed or I'll devise a support for them.


Now, an update since I was too knackered last night...

over the w/e I spend 12+ hours working. Finished the port side above the deck plus the f/b helm area (only part of it as the rest will be cut out and replaced with the new design). That was over 20h in total.

f/b port side looks like this (note the black original colour of the actual pod)

Interesting colouring scheme on the aft ending of the f/b floor

Only "interesting" area was at the meeting of the side partition to the deck aft where there's a wee bit of rot

Which brings me to further investigations on the issue of drainage of rainwater from the f/b. There isn't any and that's wrong!
I have a feeling that the idiots that put together the full width f/b arch secured with the godawful coachbolts two 50x50mm pieces of wood on the spot where drainage should have been (blocking it). Anyway, I'll remove the arch completely for the resto work and see what's under it.
I'm even more puzzled as I count 3 more thru hull outlets that don't seem to be coming from somewhere, I guess they are the exits of these drains. Will investigate further and make sure that there aren't any pools of water on the f/b.

F/b floor was also covered with this linoleum whatever roll, removed some bits, plywood seems ok underneath, wonder if it's original or an extra layer of 12mm on top of original. Tried removing one of the aft deck ceiling linings to check the frame, peeking through the iroco frame is immaculate, but not managed to remove the whole panel yet to measure thickness etc.

On Sunday eve, a friend mentioned that I could have better progress with an angle grinder with scratch on 125mm sanding paper tried a 40grit one and assuming a steady hand (thing is spining at 11Krpm) progress (and mess!) is substantially faster. So plan is to do the stbrd side with the heatgun to just quickly remove the 5-6layers of paint and attack the primer with the angle grinder (carefully). Below w/l I managed over 1sqm/h yesterday but I'll see how I'll progress. Spotted a few areas that they've previously used polyester filler (I think at least from my times at messing with classic cars...) where progress is slow and strangely they were rather random with timber underneath all being sound and clean. Go figure... As I'm moving towards the bow, I'll get to the dangerous zone so looking forward to some damaged ply from rainwater ingress through deck and railing supports.

Sourced a 6X12m tarpaulin to cover the deck up to the f/b arch so that I can work under it replacing the deck and treating frame without getting any rain in, so I'm set for two weeks work now.

Finally, on the fittings front, I bought an IP65 36U el.panel and managed to squeeze it inplace Trimmed the side panel and I'll be using the space behind it for other bits (gen panel, two small inverters for the USBs and 6A power supplies in the cabins, air/con controller, vhf to name a few...) the idea being that theres going to be a tinted glass/perspex piece covering the lot, only need to open it for servicing/checking smtg. Still a fair amount of thought and a bit of work to get it ready.

Last week I received all the VIMAR el. sockets, put them together as assemblies (they are IDEA 6U mainly) and when it's too hot or arms aching too much, I can spend some time wiring them up

Enough for now, tomorrow will be a full day at MiToS so more to report

cheers

V.

 

[burgundyben]

For anyone that questions why its important to keep fresh, ie rain, water carefully managed on a wooden boat here is the answer.

 

[Floatingpreferably]

Rainwater Damage

In value for money terms a plastic cover that lasts only 2 years and then replaced will pay for itself, over and over again in reduced long term maintenance. Yet despite that it is surprising how many wooden boats are just neglected to the elements. Then it needs somebody with real heart, loads of time and deep pockets to take them on.
Get your finger out Ben, at this rate I will see you on FRiday!#
Cheers, P

 

[rbcoomer]

Flybridge floor...

Hi Virtuvas,

First of all I must thank you for a great thread! I've been quietly following a number of these refurbishment threads for some time - they are truly inspirational for first time DIY boat enthusiasts like me!

I think I'd look in more detail at the floor of the Flybridge as I suspect you'll find the original floor overlaid with more plywood as you suggest. That's exactly what had been done with the floor in my Fletcher and looking around the web seems to be a common 'quick fix' (Mine was glassed over to look original. Covered well, it can be very difficult to spot and can hide a multitude of 'sins' beneath! It would explain the lack of drainage holes but evidence of outlets, plus the lack of any obvious means for rainwater/spray to escape. I find it hard to believe that drainage would have been an oversight in original build, but more likely the floor area repaired/strengthened to accommodate the fixing of the arch perhaps. Do you have access to pictures of any similar vessels you could compare? (Might save ripping up sections of floor!)

Looking forward to seeing the finished article - as I'm sure you are...

Best regards,

Robin

 

[pete1987]

Flybridge rain water drains on our Mystere are located either side of the aft end of the flybridge overhang.

The whole flybridge is slanted slightly towards the stern so it seems to drain naturally with no standing water.

Hope this helps

 

[vas]

In value for money terms a plastic cover that lasts only 2 years and then replaced will pay for itself, over and over again in reduced long term maintenance. Yet despite that it is surprising how many wooden boats are just neglected to the elements. Then it needs somebody with real heart, loads of time and deep pockets to take them on.
Get your finger out Ben, at this rate I will see you on FRiday!#
Cheers, P

very true,

my first go at covering only lasted 2 months then wind ripped it apart (but it was plain plastic sheet that was weak at the folds hence destroyed rather quickly)
Now, the one I bought today is a proper wooven plastic thing, so should last a couple of years.

Hi Virtuvas,

First of all I must thank you for a great thread! I've been quietly following a number of these refurbishment threads for some time - they are truly inspirational for first time DIY boat enthusiasts like me!

I think I'd look in more detail at the floor of the Flybridge as I suspect you'll find the original floor overlaid with more plywood as you suggest. That's exactly what had been done with the floor in my Fletcher and looking around the web seems to be a common 'quick fix' (Mine was glassed over to look original. Covered well, it can be very difficult to spot and can hide a multitude of 'sins' beneath! It would explain the lack of drainage holes but evidence of outlets, plus the lack of any obvious means for rainwater/spray to escape. I find it hard to believe that drainage would have been an oversight in original build, but more likely the floor area repaired/strengthened to accommodate the fixing of the arch perhaps. Do you have access to pictures of any similar vessels you could compare? (Might save ripping up sections of floor!)

Looking forward to seeing the finished article - as I'm sure you are...

Best regards,

Robin

Robin, it's also my first diy boat project as well although I have a decent list of other diy projects on my CV to support it

Yes, judging from the colour of the ply on the f/b floor and the ply on the bow deck, I'm sure you are spot on, it's new ply on top of something else...
Now, if you check the salon ceiling, you realise why I tried the aft deck ceiling first I was planning to avoid having a go at dismantling the salon and helm/galley area tbh. Ceiling is immaculate with thin strips of lined vintage black vinyl, don't really want to redo it if at all possible

Measuring after the removal of the aft deck ceiling, will let me know for sure thicknesses of the varying materials used. However it wont get me the condition of the whole lot. So maybe after all I'll have to mess with that bit as well. I'll leave it for after I redesign the f/b helm area, do the repairs and seal with a couple of coats of West the superstructure above the bow deck.
I viewed another plywood mystere before MiToS, checked the pics I took then, but they're not helpful I'm afraid. Looks like same thing has happened here...

Unfortunately the two forumites with Mysteres are of the Colin Chapman GRP variety. However, it may be helpful in focusing my excavations

So, MystereMarcus and Pete if you have any photos of your f/b deck especially halfway (bow to stern) please post as we may spot the draining areas.

I'll check at the e/r to see if I can spot where the drainpipes to the two skin exits come from.

Will report again tomorrow eve (unless I'm too knackered to type...)

cheers

V.