st599
Well-known member
Yes, I now need a work permit for most of my work, and need to spend a fortune in ATA Carnets.
Med boaters easing of 90/ 180
- Thread starter Portofino
- Start date
Momac
Well-known member
The majority of UK people take a couple of weeks holiday in the EU or elsewhere. Maybe some go more than once a year .
They are completely unaffected the 90/180 rule and probably don't even realise that such a rule exists.
People who are affected are those who have a property (or a boat) in the EU and would like to exceed the 90 days . Although a minority of people this is a significant number if countries like Spain and France are seeing an impact on their economies.
It would be good if the 90 days was relaxed to 180. If the EU (some countries more than others) is losing out on UK citizens spending it is up to the EU to do something about it. I don't see why the UK needs to do anything.
They are completely unaffected the 90/180 rule and probably don't even realise that such a rule exists.
People who are affected are those who have a property (or a boat) in the EU and would like to exceed the 90 days . Although a minority of people this is a significant number if countries like Spain and France are seeing an impact on their economies.
It would be good if the 90 days was relaxed to 180. If the EU (some countries more than others) is losing out on UK citizens spending it is up to the EU to do something about it. I don't see why the UK needs to do anything.
Bouba
Well-known member
I agree…the economic benefit is to Europe and the deficit is to the UK…it seems strange that there are people who think Britain should blink first
Alicatt
Well-known member
England got what England wanted.
Poignard
Well-known member
There speaks a man with practical experience, for whose business Brexit has been a disbenefit.
Is there anyone here* who can honestly claim that his business has benefited from Brexit?
* I am assuming that Nigel Farage, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Lord David Frost, and Richard Tice do not subscribe to this forum,
Last edited:
DAW
Active member
It would be interesting to see some hard facts about the economic impact on EU countries as a result of Brits inconvenienced by the 90/180 day rule. The last two years have been pretty good for tourism in SoF, with most hotels and restaurants reporting everything back to pre-pandemic levels. Property markets have held up remarkably well given the hike in interest rates and marinas are relatively busy year-round and still completely full in the summer months. I don't see or hear of anyone complaining about the exodus of Brits who can't stay more than 90 days. I don't know of many people with holiday homes or boats here that have been too badly affected by Brexit. For most, the 90/180 day approach works and they just need to keep track of days in the busy period between April and September. Maybe the situation is different and more problematic for those who are retired, or have second homes in Spain.
I'm not so sure about the level of political support, or support at a grass-roots level in France, for the proposals put forward to exempt those with second homes or boats from the 90/180 day rule. There was some real push back in the media coverage about this proposal being elitist, anti-democratic, favouring the rich over the poor, etc. and worst of all being very "un-French". I'm also not sure how this would work in practice, given that France, Spain, etc. must all comply with the rules of Schengen which is where the 90/180 day requirement comes from. I suspect there will still be a requirement for a visa of some sort to be issued, eve if this is done through an accelerated process.
I'm not so sure about the level of political support, or support at a grass-roots level in France, for the proposals put forward to exempt those with second homes or boats from the 90/180 day rule. There was some real push back in the media coverage about this proposal being elitist, anti-democratic, favouring the rich over the poor, etc. and worst of all being very "un-French". I'm also not sure how this would work in practice, given that France, Spain, etc. must all comply with the rules of Schengen which is where the 90/180 day requirement comes from. I suspect there will still be a requirement for a visa of some sort to be issued, eve if this is done through an accelerated process.
billskip
Well-known member
Yes
kashurst
Well-known member
and?
Poignard
Well-known member
Don't be coy, please let us know in what way your business has benefited.
Last edited:
kashurst
Well-known member
As one of those people I can confirm brexit is a pain in the ar@e. Yes it's all solvable, but its a massive waste of time. What makes it all really really annoying is that the UK refused the EU offer of 180 in 365. We could have maintained the existing arrangement.
Still as to being affected, from November this year the EU will want fingerprints and e-visas. UK people going on holiday will REALLY notice that. I can see the daily wail headlines already.
jointventureII
Active member
Without meaning to drag this into a different debate, it's a been a complete pain the backside, the whole damn thing. For everyone, British or EU, it would seem.
I now don't use UK suppliers for work, it costs too much to import. British crew are at a disadvantage in the Med, and all we ever get is "well you voted for it, this is what you voted for...." when having to sort the paperwork out in front of some French, Italian, Greek, Spanish official.
@kashurst you've just nailed it. It's solvable, but a massive waste of time.
Portofino
Well-known member
What’s prosed is. Visa free waiver .There already is a 180 visa available for France a tourist visa .
The current issue it’s reported as PITA at the U.K. end .Fr gov have sub d it out to a firm that appear useless by some accounts .
It briefly involves a lot of data collection and a personal visit to a centre in the U.K. Each time btw .There’s no faster route if you have done it once .Now contrast this say ( in todays tech world ) Kenya .A 10 min online application and the visa is returned 10 mins later by email .There are many other ( theses days ) on line visa s available…..easily .
What this campaign has done positively is highlight this and indeed to Fr are streamlining there tourist visa .
As for numbers , who this really effects = Martyns point , not many .
It doesn’t take many to get noticed .Best eg i can think up is the post office computer fiasco .
Mr Bates …..numbers 30 jailed another 70 bollocked off lives ruined .So a 100 tops . Actions been taken , Gov has set up zillions of enquires , compo on its way ,etc etc , even a film .The whole nine yards .
Back on topic as DAW inferenced SOF business back where they where , Other N Europeans have filled any real vacuums left by any Brit exodus, boats or / and properties.
The loudest voices are from pet owners without EU animal passports because a multi trip cost a lot more in vet certs .
From basically folks that gammed the system pre 2020 .Theses peeps over stayed flying under the residence ( tax trap ) radars .Now with pass port stamping they can’t .If you exceed 182 days in Fr you supposed to contact officialdom.
40000 Brit residence secondaire out of 4 Million official secondary residences * 3.6 M owned by French .The rest various European and few others 3 p .
The visa waiver FB group has had a few thousand members ( recently swollen by the publicity) a lot more than the wronged U.K. post office workers . Call it 1000 peeps that’s 10x Mr Bates traction .Additionally one Senator in the French alps where in the summer looks like a film set from a spaghetti western with tumble weed blowing through the town .So one region squawking rightfully the economic collapse .
See it doesn’t take much lobbying to get into the public psyche.
Returning to gaming the system there’s a common misconception that FoM meant you could stay as long as you like without any ties or dues as a “tourist “
Thats never been the case and is still abused .Danes , Germans + Dutch in vans basically living in Spain .Undetected.
They fall foul of the premise “ you should pay taxes in the state you spend the most time in “
They don’t it’s a huge internal EU problem .
See this link .May surprise a few on here ?
BTW contrary to internet Lore and a view expressed by a few on here …..the EU never offered , nor did the U.K. turn down said offer of any 180 reciprocal arrangement. It couldn’t .
* French officialdom over the past 2 yrs have collated a list of residence secondaire s , it’s been a new box to tick on the property taxes .
Hope all his sheds light .?
Last edited:
petem
Well-known member
There were 700 convictions from the Horizons scandal and may more people had their lives ruined by the actions of the Post Office. We're definitely talking many of thousands of people who have been affected.
Portofino
Well-known member
Thx for that erratum Pete .I have been out of the U.K. most of the time this winter , just returned FWIW to escape the 1/2 T madness about to be unleashed on the EU , so not really been picking up U.K. news or TV much .
Got some late spuds on the farm to get up and then prep up for next yrs crop .BTW U.K. crop prices have risen nicely since 2020 and seen further uplifts by Putins antics .
The point still stands doesn’t take many peeps in terms of the EU s 500 million population % wise to get traction politically.
It ain’t many either with this 90/180 to 180/360 thingy .
Alicatt
Well-known member
Second homes in the whole of the EU were valued at about £50billion in June 2020, and in France at just over £30billion.
Not too small a market.
From written submissions to the select committee for Brexit
https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/6891/html/
Not too small a market.
From written submissions to the select committee for Brexit
https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/6891/html/
jfm
Well-known member
Not sure what PO situation has to do with all this and therefore why Porto introduced it, but for the record that 700 convictions is only those where POL was prosecutor. There are another 200+ convictions where Scots Proc Fiscal and NI's version of CPS were the prosecutors, fuelled of course by POL investigations. So, nearly 1000 convictions in whole of UK. Then if you add people made to pay money, prosecuted but not convicted (when POL dropped charges due to the Jenkins problem), etc, you get to almost 3,000 people harmed . Not counting their family members of course.
benjenbav
Well-known member
Yet more - including Alan Bates - were affected (lost position) without being prosecuted. And it’s taken 20 odd years for them all not to get justice yet. Those hoping to see a general relaxation of 90/180 might wish not to think of parallels quite here.
Alicatt
Well-known member
Searching on the Govt website looking for info on Visas it threw up a few submissions on the Horizon/Post office going back to about 2015, which I thought curious at the time.
And no I'm not Porto
billskip
Well-known member
Made more money...and rid a few inconveniences...
