Mayday - MOB - Number of Persons Aboard

[Juan Twothree]

M - Mayday
I - Identity of vessel
P - Position
D - Distress experienced
A - Assistance required (Immediate?)
N - Number of persons on board
I - Information (additional to above)
O - Over

At the risk of being pedantic, my RNLI big book of How to Crew a Lifeboat has it as M I R P D A N I O, the "R" being repetition (once) of the word Mayday and the vessel's name.

This is also the case in step 4 of the reminder sticker in post #64.

 

[Uricanejack]

OK, confession time. I've never entered that - I didn't even know it could be done. How many others with me seeking absolution for that sin of omission?

Not sure if it’s only a Class thing or depending on model. The function exists on ours so we use it.

 

[Juan Twothree]

A decision best made by the CG in the light of what assistance you (who are already on the scene, and know better the situation there and you and your boat's capabilities) have requested.

Absolutely.
The other advantage of keeping the CG fully appraised of the situation is that there might be a requirement for additional assistance at the arrival point. Even in a marina, it can be tricky transferring a spinal casualty, for instance, from inside a yacht onto dry land.
Although the ambulance will carry specialist kit such as stretchers and spine boards, it's often useful to have some extra pairs of hands available, such as from a CG rescue team or the fire brigade.

 

[Uricanejack]

Pan-Pan has not been done away with, but if there's immediate risk to life or the vessel then it's a Mayday.

I think the point is to be clear whether or not you need immediate assistance, and of what sort. I imagine there are all sorts of reasons one might need Mayday assistance, but not immediately. (One that springs to mind is where you have someone injured on board and you will arrive at a port before long. Having a lifeboat or a helicopter sent out to you would likely delay, rather than speed, proceedings. You need an ambulance at the marina in, say, 30 minutes, not this minute.)

Not an uncommon scenario. To request medical assistance, routinely if close to dock, direct call to 911. Which in the Uk would be 999,
or if further out. No cell, direct call to RCC, on their channel.
one of my reasons for avoiding C16, privacy, a lot of questions get asked, some of them very personal.
on a few occasions diversion to transfer has been required.

 

[LittleSister]

And I thought this, of all topics, was one which there was general agreement!

 

[Gary Fox]

At the risk of being pedantic, my RNLI big book of How to Crew a Lifeboat has it as M I R P D A N I O, the "R" being repetition (once) of the word Mayday and the vessel's name.

This is also the case in step 4 of the reminder sticker in post #64.

Is that book available to the public? I would like to study it.
(And if not, why not?)

 

[LittleSister]

Here is the procedure as set out by the MCA (Marine and Coastguard Agency):

'MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY
This is (name of own vessel – say three times) Call sign or other identifcation
MMSI of own vessel
MAYDAY
This is [Name, call sign and MMSI]
Position, [preferably as latitude and longitude] Nature of distress
Assistance required
Number on board
Other information
Over'

You can print off the full leaflet from here:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...924914/GMDSS_DSC_VHF_Procedures_Nov._2018.pdf

 

[Gary Fox]

Here is the procedure as set out by the MCA (Marine and Coastguard Agency):

'MAYDAY, MAYDAY, MAYDAY
This is (name of own vessel – say three times) Call sign or other identifcation
MMSI of own vessel
MAYDAY
This is [Name, call sign and MMSI]
Position, [preferably as latitude and longitude] Nature of distress
Assistance required
Number on board
Other information
Over'

You can print off the full leaflet from here:
https://assets.publishing.service.g...924914/GMDSS_DSC_VHF_Procedures_Nov._2018.pdf

Thanks for that.
You see, this is my big beef with the new, officially recommended, proceedure: the introduction of bureaucratic strings of meaningless letters and numbers (worthless if a single mistake is made or there's a glitch in transmission).
We are meant to recite all that data ***BEFORE GIVING OUR POSITION*** which to me is utterly ludicrous and definitely dangerous.
By all means, pass it over after, or as part of, Any Other Info at the end.

 

[capnsensible]

It's always worth recalling, in my opinion, that these procedures have been promulgated by the International Telecomunications Union at the scheduled world radio conferences. These Operating Procedures are not made up on a whim, these are the serious professionals.

To identify yourself ashore, you use name, address and telephone number.

At sea you use vessel name, radio call sign (kinda radio address) and mmsi (kinda radio telephone number). That's what people want to help you in the best way they can.

During a practical course, we would always do loadsa mob excercises. It's great for a number of reasons. Every time I would ask a student to nip below and read out the distress message ....obviously without touching the radio.....to get familiar with the routine. It showed them how easy it is with regular practice. Just like nearly everything about sailing small vessels, really.....?

 

[Stemar]

Could you imagine what a psychological profile of a typical user of "The Lounge" would look like, assuming any of them ever got onto a boat?

 

[Cathy*]

I've not played with safetrax but in CG66 days we uploaded pictures to help with visual identification.

The problem with safetrax is it relies on a mobile phone signal. I used it going from Plymouth to Portsmouth this year and it kept dropping out. AIS relies on picking up aerials and looking at our track we did some nifty manoeuvres across land, it wasn't good for real time position. We have a GPS tracker on board so had my emergency contacts monitoring that as it showed exactly where we were.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Is that book available to the public? I would like to study it.
(And if not, why not?)

No, it's purely a crew training manual. As it's geared towards operating lifeboats, not much of it is relevant to the outside world.
And those bits that are relevant are available in plenty of other publications, available to the public.
I suppose that if you're really that interested, you could talk to the training department in Poole.

 

[Gary Fox]

No, it's purely a crew training manual. As it's geared towards operating lifeboats, not much of it is relevant to the outside world.
And those bits that are relevant are available in plenty of other publications, available to the public.
I suppose that if you're really that interested, you could talk to the training department in Poole.

I think it would raise a decent amount of funds if it was sold in RNLI shops and the online shop. Unless there is anything which they don't want us to see? Most yacht skipper do lots of 'crew training', it sounds very relevant.

 

[laika]

I've not played with safetrax but in CG66 days we uploaded pictures to help with visual identification.

The problem with safetrax is it relies on a mobile phone signal.

I was talking about the "static data" which one could upload as part of the CG66 program and could then be called up by the coastguard if they could uniquely identify you to aid in search and rescue. Presumably in signing up to safetrax you submit a bunch of personal information and I was wondering whether that might include a photo of the boat (this would make sense). Access to that by SAR teams that could uniquely identify you wouldn't be dependent on you having a mobile phone signal as it would be held in a backend database.

In other news...I've been googling ITU documents on distress procedure and there's no specific mention of "number of persons": it's just "other information". So I wonder where the "number of persons" thing even comes from?

 

[Gary Fox]

I was talking about the "static data" which one could upload as part of the CG66 program and could then be called up by the coastguard if they could uniquely identify you to aid in search and rescue. Presumably in signing up to safetrax you submit a bunch of personal information and I was wondering whether that might include a photo of the boat (this would make sense). Access to that by SAR teams that could uniquely identify you wouldn't be dependent on you having a mobile phone signal as it would be held in a backend database.

In other news...I've been googling ITU documents on distress procedure and there's no specific mention of "number of persons": it's just "other information". So I wonder where the "number of persons" thing even comes from?

Good point; so, a question 'to whom it may concern':
Do HMCG call centre workers have instant access, via online safetrax data, to boat pictures, and CG66-style info on emergency equipment etc, to pass to lifeboats/helos which are proceeding to a vessel in distress?

Personally, I doubt it...I remember being told that CG66 info had to be put on file during the lunch hour, as it was not officially recognised...

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Good point; so, a question 'to whom it may concern':
Do HMCG call centre workers have instant access, via online safetrax data, to boat pictures, and CG66-style info on emergency equipment etc, to pass to lifeboats/helos which are proceeding to a vessel in distress?

Personally, I doubt it...I remember being told that CG66 info had to be put on file during the lunch hour, as it was not officially recognised...

I'm sure everyone knows, but CG66 is no longer; it is an ex-database, it is as dead as John Cleese's parrot! SafeTrax replaces its functionality, but data were NOT transferred from CG66, so people relying on the coastguard having access to CG66 are likely to be sadly disappointed.

 

[Gary Fox]

I'm sure everyone knows, but CG66 is no longer; it is an ex-database, it is as dead as John Cleese's parrot! SafeTrax replaces its functionality, but data were NOT transferred from CG66, so people relying on the coastguard having access to CG66 are likely to be sadly disappointed.

Thanks.
Do HMCG call centre operatives have instant online access to SafeTrax data? My yacht has a unique name in a foreign language. Her name would be sufficient to get access to her SafeTrax data, which means it would be a dangerous waste of time to give my MMSI, international callsign, inside leg measurement and BMI over the VHF while sinking.
I will register with SafeTrax right now, and see what it says anyway.

 

[penberth3]

Doesn't work for me. My students will always give persons remaining. For me it's clarity for the rescue services. Up to you what you do however, it won't prevent a rescuer attending. And should you have that question in a VHF assessment, you won't fail with either answer.

OK, forget number "on board" - I'm thinking the important information is number "on scene". Reporting "one on board" if there are say four in the water is misleading.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Thanks.
Do HMCG call centre operatives have instant online access to SafeTrax data? My yacht has a unique name in a foreign language. Her name would be sufficient to get access to her SafeTrax data, which means it would be a dangerous waste of time to give my MMSI, international callsign, inside leg measurement and BMI over the VHF while sinking.
I will register with SafeTrax right now, and see what it says anyway.

I have no idea whether the CG have access to SafeTrax; it is operated by the RYA (I thinkl) and was intended to replace CG66 while providing added functionality, so I'd guess they do, but I don't know for sure. People with CG experience have posted here before; it would be interesting to hear what they say. However, it is also certain that once beyond UK GMDSS areas, it won't be available.

I'd be very wary of assuming that your boat's name is unique unless it is already on a database of verified unique names, and no such database exists. Without going round every marina, harbour, boatyard or anchorage in the world you can't be CERTAIN it is unique. I happen to know that my own boat's name isn't. It sounds likely that your is, but from a long and successful career as a data manager, I have to say that things that people think are unique rarely are, UNLESS there is a mechanism to ensure uniqueness. MMSI and Call-sign are guaranteed to be unique because they are on an international database; yacht names aren't and the format of the Mayday Call is designed to ensure that the answering authorities a) have a unique identifier for each incident and b) ensures that the format of the call can be readily followed by a person whose first or even only language may not be English. Given that your boat's names is a word in a foreign language, it may be that it is unlikely to be replicated in the UK, but what about the country where it originates? And what about the potential for it being misheard or misspelt by the operator?

The rules for Mayday calls are international in scope, and as others have pointed out, are agreed by an international committee. They are designed not to be pretty certain that a call is uniquely identified but guaranteed to be so. They are also designed so that a person with limited or no understanding of the language in which they are sent can still take down relevant details.

Most of us stay in UK waters, and it is very likely that omitting the MMSI and call-sign won't make difficulties (though it could). But for those travelling to areas where the local language isn't English, the standard format has a better chance of allowing the receiving authorities to make sense of the call. Finally, even in UK waters, you could have to rely on a MayDay relay by a commercial vessel few of whose crew speak English.

 

[Gary Fox]

I have no idea whether the CG have access to SafeTrax; it is operated by the RYA (I thinkl) and was intended to replace CG66 while providing added functionality, so I'd guess they do, but I don't know for sure. People with CG experience have posted here before; it would be interesting to hear what they say. However, it is also certain that once beyond UK GMDSS areas, it won't be available.

I'd be very wary of assuming that your boat's name is unique unless it is already on a database of verified unique names, and no such database exists. Without going round every marina, harbour, boatyard or anchorage in the world you can't be CERTAIN it is unique. I happen to know that my own boat's name isn't. It sounds likely that your is, but from a long and successful career as a data manager, I have to say that things that people think are unique rarely are, UNLESS there is a mechanism to ensure uniqueness. MMSI and Call-sign are guaranteed to be unique because they are on an international database; yacht names aren't and the format of the Mayday Call is designed to ensure that the answering authorities a) have a unique identifier for each incident and b) ensures that the format of the call can be readily followed by a person whose first or even only language may not be English. Given that your boat's names is a word in a foreign language, it may be that it is unlikely to be replicated in the UK, but what about the country where it originates? And what about the potential for it being misheard or misspelt by the operator?

The rules for Mayday calls are international in scope, and as others have pointed out, are agreed by an international committee. They are designed not to be pretty certain that a call is uniquely identified but guaranteed to be so. They are also designed so that a person with limited or no understanding of the language in which they are sent can still take down relevant details.

Most of us stay in UK waters, and it is very likely that omitting the MMSI and call-sign won't make difficulties (though it could). But for those travelling to areas where the local language isn't English, the standard format has a better chance of allowing the receiving authorities to make sense of the call. Finally, even in UK waters, you could have to rely on a MayDay relay by a commercial vessel few of whose crew speak English.

Thanks for the info.
I'm trying to put my boat on SafeTrax right now, the website keeps freezing and it isn't going well but I will persevere.