Mayday - MOB - Number of Persons Aboard

[Tomahawk]

Could say total of three persons and one of those is in the water ? I think that the total number to be rescued is important to get across.

Found this on the RNLI website -

• The word, 'Mayday' is repeated.
• The vessel's identity is repeated (include MMSI and International call sign).
• The vessel's position. This is absolutely vital for the SAR authorities to be able to find the distressed vessel as soon as possible. It can be given in either Latitude and Longitude or as the bearing and distance from a known geographic point.
• The nature of the distress, such as 'Vessel on fire, sinking, etc.'.
• Require Immediate Assistance
• The number of people on board, including the radio operator!
• Any other Information. This should include any information that might help the SAR authorities locate the vessel and assist in the Distress. Include information such as the vessel's colour, type of craft, the activation of an EPIRB, flares etc.. It is also helpful to give the rate and direction of drift if this is applicable.

AKA... MIPDANO

 

[Uricanejack]

I like to think myself reasonably well versed in radio procedure and not too shabby in most safety-related yacht things so I feel deeply ashamed to confess that I am ignorant on an important point which intermittently bothers me.

When calling mayday for a MOB, is the casualty included in "number of persons on board"?

In practice I would doubtless deviate from standard procedure with something like "1 casualty in the water, 2 persons still aboard".

I occasionally try to google this but have been unable to turn up anything definitive. Plenty of mayday templates on line which state "I have ... Persons aboard" but all the examples seem to be "sinking". Yesterday I decided to mail the RYA (hoping they don't strip me of my certificates for asking) but got an automated reply that they're on hols til next week.

Mostly this is just "something I should know but don't" but "2 persons on board" is a markedly different situation if that 2 includes the one in the water.

I'm sure plenty of people have an opinion on this but can anyone point to a reference where this is written down?

Not a question I have ever really thought off.
I could tell you I think the answer is the number of people on board is the number of people you departed with.
A wise person used to say to me “tell me what you know not what you think”

What I do know. If I press the big red button on a GMDSS radio, intergraded with AIS. The no of persons on board would be the number which should have been entered when we departed.

The number of pepole on board on arrival should hopefully match the no of people on board on departure.

 

[Sandy]

How does that help your rescuers?

I understand you have not been involved with the rescue services.

As an ex-Mountain Rescue Team member we found the home contact a wealth of information. Simple questions like how often did the person climb, what standard did they usually climb at, were there any underlying health issues, e.g. diabetes, gave us a wealth of information and can they navigate? Perhaps the CG do the same thing? Once when looking for a lost member of the military we had a full psychological profile.

 

[Stemar]

What I do know. If I press the big red button on a GMDSS radio, intergraded with AIS. The no of persons on board would be the number which should have been entered when we departed.

OK, confession time. I've never entered that - I didn't even know it could be done. How many others with me seeking absolution for that sin of omission?

 

[RobbieW]

OK, confession time. I've never entered that - I didn't even know it could be done. How many others with me seeking absolution for that sin of omission?

Probably a Class A thing

 

[LittleSister]

I wrote this last night, but just found I hadn't actually posted it! I seem to be making a habit of this.

I was responding to a suggestion that we all know the full official up-to-date Mayday call by heart and confessing that I don't.

I learnt the following mnemonic - MIPDANIO - (say 'MipDannyOh') to remember the Mayday call requirements and order on my radio course long ago, and though the detail has changed (e.g. adding MMSI no. as part of the identity) the basic format remains consistent (as indicated by Boathook's quote above from the RYA ).

M - Mayday
I - Identity of vessel
P - Position
D - Distress experienced
A - Assistance required (Immediate?)
N - Number of persons on board
I - Information (additional to above)
O - Over

That will certainly get the essentials over in short order, and avoid the (possibly panicked) caller from digressing, or confusing themselves or the recipient. Any omissions or additional info can be sorted later if circumstances permit.

 

[Stemar]

A pedant writes...

A - Assistance required (Immediate?)

If it's anything but immediate, why would I be sending a mayday? Has Pan Pan been done away with?

 

[Gary Fox]

I understand you have not been involved with the rescue services.

As an ex-Mountain Rescue Team member we found the home contact a wealth of information. Simple questions like how often did the person climb, what standard did they usually climb at, were there any underlying health issues, e.g. diabetes, gave us a wealth of information and can they navigate? Perhaps the CG do the same thing? Once when looking for a lost member of the military we had a full psychological profile.

Thanks very informative; the idea of HMCG having every yachtsman's standard of navigation, underlying health issues and full psychological profile on a database is an interesting one, worthy of a satirical piece in a monthly magazine

 

[Stemar]

Thanks very informative; the idea of HMCG having every yachtsman's standard of navigation, underlying health issues and full psychological profile on a database is an interesting one, worthy of a satirical piece in a monthly magazine

Coming soon - just as quickly as they can get everyone chipped vaccinated

 

[Gary Fox]

A pedant writes...

A - Assistance required (Immediate?)

If it's anything but immediate, why would I be sending a mayday? Has Pan Pan been done away with?

Could be asking for a tow off a lee shore, loan of a salvage pump, etc. but I get the point, words have meanings. Pan Pan is still in full use..

 

[LittleSister]

A pedant writes...

A - Assistance required (Immediate?)

If it's anything but immediate, why would I be sending a mayday? Has Pan Pan been done away with?

Pan-Pan has not been done away with, but if there's immediate risk to life or the vessel then it's a Mayday.

I think the point is to be clear whether or not you need immediate assistance, and of what sort. I imagine there are all sorts of reasons one might need Mayday assistance, but not immediately. (One that springs to mind is where you have someone injured on board and you will arrive at a port before long. Having a lifeboat or a helicopter sent out to you would likely delay, rather than speed, proceedings. You need an ambulance at the marina in, say, 30 minutes, not this minute.)

 

[Stemar]

You need an ambulance at the marina in, say, 30 minutes, not this minute

Ok, I get the idea but, being picky, in that particular case, my first call would be to the marina. If they don't reply, a call to the CG would suffice, upgrading to a Pan if I can't get past all the radio checks

 

[LittleSister]

Ok, I get the idea but, being picky, in that particular case, my first call would be to the marina. If they don't reply, a call to the CG would suffice, upgrading to a Pan if I can't get past all the radio checks

Well, it was just an example, and you must do what you think best, but if I had a gravely ill or injured person on board I wouldn't be faffing about with ringing the marina and having a chat with the Coastguard, I'd be sending a Mayday, and making it clear what assistance I needed, where and when.

 

[penberth3]

Pan-Pan has not been done away with, but if there's immediate risk to life or the vessel then it's a Mayday.

I think the point is to be clear whether or not you need immediate assistance, and of what sort. I imagine there are all sorts of reasons one might need Mayday assistance, but not immediately. (One that springs to mind is where you have someone injured on board and you will arrive at a port before long. Having a lifeboat or a helicopter sent out to you would likely delay, rather than speed, proceedings. You need an ambulance at the marina in, say, 30 minutes, not this minute.)

On the other hand, despatching trained medics ASAP might be the best thing to do. A decision for the CG to make.

 

[Sandy]

Thanks very informative; the idea of HMCG having every yachtsman's standard of navigation, underlying health issues and full psychological profile on a database is an interesting one, worthy of a satirical piece in a monthly magazine

But they don't, we needed that information on a shout and were grateful when we got it. A cragfast 17 year old is a very different proposition one to a cragfast 17 year old with a hypo.

The military were able to furnish us with way more information than we needed.

 

[NormanS]

I understand you have not been involved with the rescue services.

As an ex-Mountain Rescue Team member we found the home contact a wealth of information. Simple questions like how often did the person climb, what standard did they usually climb at, were there any underlying health issues, e.g. diabetes, gave us a wealth of information and can they navigate? Perhaps the CG do the same thing? Once when looking for a lost member of the military we had a full psychological profile.

So you think the CG is better speaking to Auntie Mary, rather than the person on scene? ?

 

[LittleSister]

On the other hand, despatching trained medics ASAP might be the best thing to do. A decision for the CG to make.

A decision best made by the CG in the light of what assistance you (who are already on the scene, and know better the situation there and you and your boat's capabilities) have requested.

There's no point in despatching trained medics to where you are now if by the time they could get there you will be in port.

 

[penberth3]

So you think the CG is better speaking to Auntie Mary, rather than the person on scene? ?

I do, definitely. They're professionals, trained in all types of communication. They'll be more useful than someone on the spot who's busy dealing with problems.

 

[laika]

I was responding to a suggestion that we all know the full official up-to-date Mayday call by heart and confessing that I don't.

I don't think the mayday procedure has changed in the 15 years since I did my VHF course: I could be wrong but I seem to remember MMSI was in it then. That being said, knowing the procedure is different from remembering your mmsi (which I'm guessing only a minority of us know off by heart ) and whilst it's part of "correct" procedure, no-one's going to care if you omit it. I'm guessing JumbleDuck is just playing with semantics here and mmsi aside knows the procedure very well but I'd suggest that if anyone tries to run through the order in their heads and isn't sure, they spend 10 mins revising. I have the script posted by the chart table but I might have to call from the cockpit mic or a handheld.

I learnt the following mnemonic - MIPDANIO - (say 'MipDannyOh')

I learned MIPNANOO ("Nature of distress", "Other information"). Perhaps more appropriate for those who remember Mork from Ork

Can I reiterate that the original question is not a practical one (yes we can add clarification, yes the coastguard can use their professional skill) but a minor picky point about the procedure definition. The wording is tightly specified with the "free form" parts clearly specified which suggests it's not intended to have additional text inserted by the user where not indicated. Ability to use "common sense" is orthogonal to a desire to find out what the protocol designer's intention was.

According to my short range course, the number should be all people aboard the boat before the incident started, including any casualties and the person making the call.

This would imply that at least one RYA VHF instructor thinks that the rigidly-defined procedure can be viewed as such because "persons on board" is defined to include the whole crew including casualties. This would have been my guess: I just haven't seen it written down anywhere.

What I do know. If I press the big red button on a GMDSS radio, intergraded with AIS. The no of persons on board would be the number which should have been entered when we departed.

Per RobbieW's post persons on board is a class A thing and most of us don't have that. Moreover I'm not aware of persons on board being part of a dsc distress message at all. As stated above though, my guess is that your assumption about number of people on board is correct but I'd like confirmation.

Such a shame Tim Bartlett stopped posting here.

 

[NormanS]

I do, definitely. They're professionals, trained in all types of communication. They'll be more useful than someone on the spot who's busy dealing with problems.

The CG may be, but Auntie Mary definitely isn't. If she actually existed, which she doesn't, she wouldn't have a clue.