Mayday - MOB - Number of Persons Aboard

[Juan Twothree]

Having a lat and long is really helpful for helicopter crews:

1. Caernarfon
2. Humberside
3. Inverness
4. Lee-On-Solent
5. Lydd
6. Newquay
7. Prestwick
8. St Athan
9. Stornoway
10. Sumburgh

With so few stations, I've highlighted the three on the south coast, they really need a lat and long.

Certainly in the case of the smaller AW189 CG helicopters, an OS grid reference works equally well, should you happen to have a map handy, but no chart or GPS.
I've never been in an S92, but I'd imagine the same applies.
And the CG incident management software can use OS grid numbers too.

 

[Juan Twothree]

I heard an interesting discussion in my yacht club bar just before Xmas. Apparently Pan Pan calls are out and Mayday is used for non-life threatening situations as well as dire emergencies.

Pan Pan most certainly is still in use as far as I'm aware.
Mayday often is used for any routine non life-threatening request for assistance, but that's because lots of people no longer seem to bother with their VHF SRC, so don't know what they're doing.

Pan Pan Medico has been discontinued, however, so that might be where the story arose.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Pan Pan most certainly is still in use as far as I'm aware.
Mayday often is used for any routine non life-threatening request for assistance, but that's because lots of people no longer seem to bother with their VHF SRC, so don't know what they're doing.

Pan Pan Medico has been discontinued, however, so that might be where the story arose.

About 30 years ago the RYA decided unilaterally that "grave and imminent danger to life", which was officially still a Pan-pan, should be covered by Mayday, which was officially still only "grave and imminent danger to life". At some point since the authorities (ITU?) agreed, but perhaps that change could feed the story?

 

[NormanS]

H

Having a lat and long is really helpful for helicopter crews:

1. Caernarfon
2. Humberside
3. Inverness
4. Lee-On-Solent
5. Lydd
6. Newquay
7. Prestwick
8. St Athan
9. Stornoway
10. Sumburgh

With so few stations, I've highlighted the three on the south coast, they really need a lat and long.


https://assets.publishing.service.g...76/sarh-statistics-year-ending-march-2019.pdf

A fascinating document.
[/QUOTE

Has Aberdeen Coastguard Station been closed?

 

[Juan Twothree]

Has Aberdeen Coastguard Station been closed?

No it hasn't.

That is a list of SAR helicopter bases, not CG Operations Centres.

 

[penberth3]

I've no idea if it's the case, but I do wonder if the coastie sticking stubbornly to the "right" order of things is because these days, it's all entered into a computer and the system makes it difficult to change the order.....

I don't see this as "stubborn". Work through the list, get as much information as possible on the first contact.

 

[LittleSister]

About 30 years ago the RYA decided unilaterally that "grave and imminent danger to life", which was officially still a Pan-pan, should be covered by Mayday, which was officially still only "grave and imminent danger to life". At some point since the authorities (ITU?) agreed, but perhaps that change could feed the story?

Er, what? Doesn't seem to make any sense.

 

[Gary Fox]

I don't see this as "stubborn". Work through the list, get as much information as possible on the first contact.

Perhaps you won't be so keen to recite about 20 random numbers and letters to a call-centre operative, * before giving him/her/it your position*, if your yacht's on fire..

 

[lustyd]

Which "random" numbers are you refering to? Your position, or your MMSI number which allows them to link your call to the DSC alert they received with all of the information on it negating the need for the remainder of the speaking?

 

[penberth3]

Perhaps you won't be so keen to recite about 20 random numbers and letters to a call-centre operative, * before giving him/her/it your position*, if your yacht's on fire..

I would pass whatever information I was asked for. Always best to follow agreed procedures.

 

[Dan Tribe]

Absolutely agree.
I have listened in despair to Coast Guard operators stubbornly sticking to their procedure and wasting valuable time both for the rescue side and for the person calling who could be helping to solve the situation. In many (most?) cases the person on the vhf will be the skipper who also drives the boat and manages the emergency.

It does seem to depend on the experience of the operator. Last summer I heard a call from a yacht leaving Havengore and called for assistance, can't remember exactly why, possibly engine problems.
The CG operator wanted to know; how many on board, MMSI, are you wearing lifejackets, description of yacht, colour of topsides, lat & long, can you anchor, can you see any landmarks? Each of these questions needed a separate call and it took ages. By the time a lifeboat was sent it was too late and the tide was away.
In contrast I heard someone report a yacht aground on a lee shore "south of Osea". Very soon the operator replied "lifeboat is on it's way, can you give some details?"

 

[penberth3]

It does seem to depend on the experience of the operator. Last summer I heard a call from a yacht leaving Havengore and called for assistance, can't remember exactly why, possibly engine problems.
The CG operator wanted to know; how many on board, MMSI, are you wearing lifejackets, description of yacht, colour of topsides, lat & long, can you anchor, can you see any landmarks? Each of these questions needed a separate call and it took ages. By the time a lifeboat was sent it was too late and the tide was away.
In contrast I heard someone report a yacht aground on a lee shore "south of Osea". Very soon the operator replied "lifeboat is on it's way, can you give some details?"

That took ages? How long exactly - I'd guess a couple of minutes.

 

[Dan Tribe]

That took ages? How long exactly - I'd guess a couple of minutes.

No, at least half an hour, there was gap of several minutes between each call. It almost seemed that the operator's superior was thinking of another question to ask. The length of time it took was what made me remember the call.

 

[lustyd]

And did the person on the yacht say "over" after each answer, or just stop speaking? My guess would be an inexperienced operator on the yacht end, I find it hard to believe that someone who sounded like they needed help was effectively kept on hold for half an hour by the CG

 

[Dan Tribe]

And did the person on the yacht say "over" after each answer, or just stop speaking? My guess would be an inexperienced operator on the yacht end, I find it hard to believe that someone who sounded like they needed help was effectively kept on hold for half an hour by the CG

It happened last summer, I can't remember the conversation verbatim, but I do recall the sense of frustration and the desire to shout at the VHF " the man needs help, stop faffing about".
The guy sounded calm and reasonably competent at radio procedure.
Yes it was hard to believe, that's why I remember the event.

 

[PabloPicasso]

My MMSI and boat ID number are written up large above the main VHF set so I can read them in poor light without my glasses. But I would opt for DSC first.

However, it is not impossible for DSC not to give position if GPS not working for some reason.

Does DSC give MMSI if GPS not available? I'd guess it would but would need to read the manual to know for sure. Would it transmit a last known position/time? Could be useful if it did. Again I'd have to read the manual.

 

[Gary Fox]

My MMSI and boat ID number are written up large above the main VHF set so I can read them in poor light without my glasses. But I would opt for DSC first.

However, it is not impossible for DSC not to give position if GPS not working for some reason.

Does DSC give MMSI if GPS not available? I'd guess it would but would need to read the manual to know for sure. Would it transmit a last known position/time? Could be useful if it did. Again I'd have to read the manual.

Good question.
I don't know about the MMSI, but if the GPS stops working, my fixed Standard Horizon retains the last coordinates (while bleeping to let me know it is not getting GPS info).
That doesn't neccessarily mean it transmits the last known position if you hit the red button. I can think of reasons why not.
For example: My GPS might have died, but I decided to carry on using a handheld GPS. I might be 100's of miles from my last known position when I need help and press the red button!

 

[lustyd]

Your radio would send the last known coordinates. If the GPS is down then it will beep incessantly at you until you manually provide some, so you'd know that was the case before the emergency. If you chose to set sail with a broken GPS and switched off the VHF to prevent the noise then that's on you

 

[Gary Fox]

I have a DSC and non-DSC fixed VHF, because my crew's sleep (and mine) is more important than fannying about with crazy bleeping gadgets.
Of course the simple solution is a voice Mayday; it's been around for a while..

 

[lustyd]

I have a DSC because my crews safety is more important to me than sleep. If it's not working, fix it. DSC is more reliable and has better range than voice in addition to being quicker to send and get back to managing the situation.